699 réponses à ce sujet

[darthoptimus003]

Robhuzz wrote...

they should just end the game bioware like. it worked for so many of their games before and it would have worked with mass effect a well.
multiple endings, ranging from bitter to sweet - there would be an ending for almost every taste and people would be ok. only the usual s**tstorm about stuff like: "jacobs lack of personality" and inconsistencies about "thermal clips".

Yes they should've. That's what they were promising all the time as well and that's what I was expecting. Then the game came out and the (deserved) sh*tstorm began as it appeared all those promises were sheer lies.

And I'm not totally stupid, of course there's a reason why the sh*tstorm was bigger than anyone anticipated. BioWare's track record (which had, until DA2 just a year earlier, been amazing), means people just expect more from a company like bioware after all this time and will respond more vocally if they mess up. People hating just a bit harder because of EA being responsible for the release date - which was obviously way too early as the game wasn't remotely finished. Of course BioWare's response of calling the people who disliked the ending entitled whiners, 'vocal minority' and other things didn't help a bit either.

^^and this right here is why im still pissed after all this time^^
all i can say is i hope they fix this
well i could say more but ill give them a little more time to make it right 

[Neizd]

Seival wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...
the endings are only a part of the problem - we expected that the endings would come in the typical bioware style - like dragon age, baldurs gate, neverwinter nights, knights of the old republic. all those games providd multiple endings - from sweet to bitter. mass effect only provided 3 bitter and one pseudo ending.

What are you talking about? BG1 had only one ending. BG2 had one ending. BG2:ToB had  two three - one choice with different flavors for the divine option depending on alignment. NWN had one. SoU had one. HotU had one (unless your threshold for what constitutes a different ending is low enough for ME3 to count as having eight or nine endings). KotOR had two

6 completely different variants of Control, plus Synthesis, Destroy, and Refusal. And only Refusal is pure negative ending - just a critical mission failure with unique cinematic.

BG2: TOB at least had a decent epiloque...dragon age II too had it, an epiloque where you get to know what happened after the big war/fight.

About refusal...it my Shepard eyes he didn't choose badly. Deciding not to toss a coin to see if some unknown reaper intelligence is lying is something a rational soldier would do. In fact from Shepard eyes it's the only rational choice, since he/she is a soldier...and soldiers don't win wars by a dumb choice of A, B or C, they win them with war assets or at least die trying.

Shepard is not player, he doesn't know what we know...if you look at the choices in this perspective, refusal is probably the one rational choice.

[CannotCompute]

I've played the trilogy a couple of times now and think the endings are alright (with EC DLC installed ofcourse). Well, I like the Control and Destroy endings anyway... Synthesis feels like DNA raping everyone in the galaxy and Refuse doesn't satisfy.

Headcannoning IT is still a viable option as well.

Modifié par CannotCompute, 21 novembre 2012 - 10:17 .

[InvincibleHero]

Robhuzz wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

I disagree. They may have ruined it for you, but the game is quite entertaining and was well worth my gaming $. Glad your opinion is the only valid one not the reviews or the people that liked it.

You can't always get what you want out of created media. Learn to accept that. Their story and their way. You didn't get what you expected and so carry on and on far past the minor efect it should have had.

An optional entertainment product didn't meet someone's expectations and didn't give them exactly what they wanted so let's rage 8 months later and not let it go. It is not a major life disappointment or changer not even close.

It may be difficult for you to understand, but many people have been with this series since 2007 and been involved in sharing ideas with bioware and what not, spending 5 years to see where this trilogy will go. To see it end in such a way, with such a giant fiasco...

To be promised over and over again that the choices you made will be wrapped up properly and you can really experience 'your own' ending and to then find out you've been blatantly lied to, then be called whiny and entitled by EA's pr machine. I cannot speak for others but I do not look kindly to that, and thus I still feel the need, even 8 months later, to voice my disgust over the abomination that bioware calls an ending. All to feed EA's greed as they tried to turn ME3 into another generic tps to capture both the COD crowd and the Mass Effect fan.

And now, the next insult: BioWare asking the fans for 'help' again, as if they have any intention of listening. They didn't listen to the fan ideas for ME3. Neither did they listen with the EC when they filled some holes the original ending left with more plot holes and nonsense...

I have been with BW since Baldur's Gate and bought every game except grabbed by the ghoulies (console) and the first KOTOR and now DAII which maybe someday I'll break down and buy but the combat was terrible IMO. You have no claim to bigger fan than anyone.

Wrapped up properly? Obviously you have differnt ideas than BW did. Sorry IPs are developed according to the developer needs. They chose the endings for ME3 because it served their purpose. Sorry you didn't get what you wanted but we can;t order up an ending we'd like.

I didn't find it the best ending but I have experienced much worse. Most of the rest of the game is amazing so IMO the end is the end so it isn't going to disproportianately color my perception of the game. It is one facet nothing more.

Yeah see third person shooter yeah that didn't happen. There are likely just as many plot points to choose from just way more dialog. I'd be interested if someone actually had a count of them. it feels like Mass Effect only better.

I wonder were you one of the Shepard is a brick haters becasue autodialog was the answer to that and it works. I am not so pedantic as to want complete control of Shepard's every emotion or word.

Oh they listen they just didn't cave in this instance. Sometimes there isn;t a happily ever after. Shepard's story was always Bw's to tell and ours to experience. They give so much to the fans but it is a never ending cycle of WE WANT MORE. They do far more than most companies and it's a shame that isn't appreciated.

[Femlob]

I still can't get over how badly the ending destroyed an entire trilogy

You're not supposed to get over it. You're supposed to toss the game aside, blacklist developer and publisher alike and move on to another game.

Let BioWare choke on its artistic integrity; there are plenty of RPG developers out there who are worthy of your time and money.

[darthoptimus003]

well we did spend money on this unfinished game and we want what we paid for

[Maxster_]

Femlob wrote...

I still can't get over how badly the ending destroyed an entire trilogy

You're not supposed to get over it. You're supposed to toss the game aside, blacklist developer and publisher alike and move on to another game.

Let BioWare choke on its artistic integrity; there are plenty of RPG developers out there who are worthy of your time and money.

But that doesn't mean, that you obliged to leave EAWare forums.
It is fun to remind them of their utter failures, like SWTOR, ME3 and DA2.

[Killdren88]

Its amazing really. Never have I been more disappointed in any other game I've played since DA 2. ME 3 was to be my saving grace. But no Eaware had the muck it up as well. I do not understand the logic on polarizing the end. They want people to talk about the game even if its negative? That makes little sense business wise. The game in general was unfinished lacking so much. From auto dialogue to turning Cerberus into one dimensional bad guys. It was a cluster f*** of genericness.

[amblin_xi]

Me3 , and the trilogy deserved a far better, much, much longer ending plus epilogue. a proper conclusion and epic final showdown of the key bad guys, such as TIM, and more importantly, the harbinger .

A CONVENTIONAL ENDING with guns firing and lots, lots of explosions.

Such as upon realizing shep's intention(maybe just after shep dealt with Tim and before the space kid show up) harbinger redirected and led his fleet back in desperation to stop shep, and clashed with Hackett's last line of defense around crucible---the finest and the last the galaxy has to offer in an EPIC cut scene while Shepard, after learning everything from TIM instead of the lame space kid is crawling his way to the crucible controls, and turn the tide.

[amblin_xi]

^^ And we can still have multiple endings based on what and how we choose during the final conversations/actions with TIM. Why TIM know everything? Ooh it's a mystery, keep it for a DLC maybe lol.

And, in the epilogue, while shep is still passed out after he hit the controls, have harbinger resemble the shape of that damn space kid, and explain the cycle and his real intentions, based on the ending. So the earlier dream can be explained as well, no plot breaking loose ends and more rooms for future DLCs.

[jkflipflopDAO]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

dasGleamer wrote...

8 months later

Lol. 

Ya know.. I still don't fully understand it. Yeah the original endings were bad, but I really, really don't get how that could somehow "ruin" the rest of the game/the previous games. 

Whats even more hilarious is that that last 5 minutes apparently means that they can't make any more good games or whatever. Like Bioware was supposed to be this all perfect being, but the moment they made one mistake its this huge unforgivable thing. 

I just can't comprehend. 

Starbrat's mere existence on the citadel completely destroys the story of ME1. ME2's story was pretty much all leadup and foreshadowing on points that were wholesale abandoned in ME3. 

ME3 destroyed the trilogy. 

[Maxster_]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

dasGleamer wrote...

8 months later

Lol. 

Ya know.. I still don't fully understand it. Yeah the original endings were bad, but I really, really don't get how that could somehow "ruin" the rest of the game/the previous games. 

Whats even more hilarious is that that last 5 minutes apparently means that they can't make any more good games or whatever. Like Bioware was supposed to be this all perfect being, but the moment they made one mistake its this huge unforgivable thing. 

I just can't comprehend. 

Starbrat's mere existence on the citadel completely destroys the story of ME1. ME2's story was pretty much all leadup and foreshadowing on points that were wholesale abandoned in ME3. 

ME3 destroyed the trilogy. 

In addition:
ME1(and ME2) story is completely destroyed when was revealed, that reapers sat in dark space, waiting for thousands of years of Sovereign machinations, when they could just flew into a galaxy in 0.5-3 years losing completely nothing.
Catalyst was just a fatality

[AlanC9]

Maxster_ wrote...

In addition:
ME1(and ME2) story is completely destroyed when was revealed, that reapers sat in dark space, waiting for thousands of years of Sovereign machinations, when they could just flew into a galaxy in 0.5-3 years losing completely nothing.

Yeah, ME3 would have been so much better if the Reapers never showed up.

How do you resolve the story if they don't get here?

[Maxster_]

AlanC9 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

In addition:
ME1(and ME2) story is completely destroyed when was revealed, that reapers sat in dark space, waiting for thousands of years of Sovereign machinations, when they could just flew into a galaxy in 0.5-3 years losing completely nothing.

Yeah, ME3 would have been so much better if the Reapers never showed up.

How do you resolve the story if they don't get here?

Please.
I even made relevant part bolded in this iteration.
Also, reapers haven't arrived in ME1, and, surprise, - were stopped.
There could be many ways to deal with the story, but EAWare choose to nullify prequels.

[Yate]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

dasGleamer wrote...

8 months later

Lol. 

Ya know.. I still don't fully understand it. Yeah the original endings were bad, but I really, really don't get how that could somehow "ruin" the rest of the game/the previous games. 

Whats even more hilarious is that that last 5 minutes apparently means that they can't make any more good games or whatever. Like Bioware was supposed to be this all perfect being, but the moment they made one mistake its this huge unforgivable thing. 

I just can't comprehend. 

Starbrat's mere existence on the citadel completely destroys the story of ME1. ME2's story was pretty much all leadup and foreshadowing on points that were wholesale abandoned in ME3. 

ME3 destroyed the trilogy. 

no

Catalyst fits with lore

[Yate]

I mean

if your argument is "why didn't the Catalyst do anything"

it tried

it couldn't control the keepers, remember?

the keepers respond to the signal

the protheans blocked the signal

[Yate]

Maxster_ wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

dasGleamer wrote...

8 months later

Lol. 

Ya know.. I still don't fully understand it. Yeah the original endings were bad, but I really, really don't get how that could somehow "ruin" the rest of the game/the previous games. 

Whats even more hilarious is that that last 5 minutes apparently means that they can't make any more good games or whatever. Like Bioware was supposed to be this all perfect being, but the moment they made one mistake its this huge unforgivable thing. 

I just can't comprehend. 

Starbrat's mere existence on the citadel completely destroys the story of ME1. ME2's story was pretty much all leadup and foreshadowing on points that were wholesale abandoned in ME3. 

ME3 destroyed the trilogy. 

In addition:
ME1(and ME2) story is completely destroyed when was revealed, that reapers sat in dark space, waiting for thousands of years of Sovereign machinations, when they could just flew into a galaxy in 0.5-3 years losing completely nothing.
Catalyst was just a fatality

They lost the element of surprise. (Or at least they would have if the council wasn't THE COUNCIL.)

They lost the ability to spread throughout the galaxy.

They lost the ability to take out the Citadel in one go.

[Yate]

face it guys, there are no plot holes

at least no plot holes worse than those in the first two games

if you don't like it that's fine

but don't act like it's objectively bad

[KingZayd]

KingZayd wrote...

Yate wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Yate wrote...

LeVaughnX wrote...

LilLino wrote...

It didn't destroy an entire trilogy. I'm sorry OP feels that way.

You also didn't play the trilogy / start at Mass Effect 1 - so you don't count.

This is actually your biggest fallacy. You want everything you assumed about the universe back in ME1 to be true. It's not. The ending doesn't conflict with anything in ME1 or ME2, I've played through the entire saga since EC and it works.

Don't try and control the story. Just relax and enjoy the ride.

Play through the series again.

Maybe then you'll find the conflicts.

What conflicts are you talking about? Because I have yet to find one.

I had to go digging a few months back to find these from an old post I made. These were some of my problems with the Starchild, when looking at ME1. They are from before the EC but I believe they still apply:

1) Why does the Catalyst (of whom the Citadel is part of) need a reaper that it controls to stay behind and tell it when the Harvest is ready [the organic races are on the Citadel (part of the Catalyst)], so that it can send a signal to the Keepers so that they can open the Citadel relay (part of the Catalyst)? 

2) How do the Protheans sneak onto the Citadel (part of the Catalyst) and change it without alerting the Catalyst? When the Citadel receives Sovereign's signal, and the keepers aren't activated, why doesn't it let Sovereign know what's going on? Why hasn't the Catalyst made the other reapers it controls who can enter the Milky Way using FTL drives, do so in all that time?

3) Why does the Citadel (part of the catalyst) have a master control console that organics can use, but that neither the Reapers nor the Starchild can? (remotely or otherwise)?

[Maxster_]

Yate wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

dasGleamer wrote...

8 months later

Lol. 

Ya know.. I still don't fully understand it. Yeah the original endings were bad, but I really, really don't get how that could somehow "ruin" the rest of the game/the previous games. 

Whats even more hilarious is that that last 5 minutes apparently means that they can't make any more good games or whatever. Like Bioware was supposed to be this all perfect being, but the moment they made one mistake its this huge unforgivable thing. 

I just can't comprehend. 

Starbrat's mere existence on the citadel completely destroys the story of ME1. ME2's story was pretty much all leadup and foreshadowing on points that were wholesale abandoned in ME3. 

ME3 destroyed the trilogy. 

In addition:
ME1(and ME2) story is completely destroyed when was revealed, that reapers sat in dark space, waiting for thousands of years of Sovereign machinations, when they could just flew into a galaxy in 0.5-3 years losing completely nothing.
Catalyst was just a fatality

They lost the element of surprise. (Or at least they would have if the council wasn't THE COUNCIL.)

They lost the ability to spread throughout the galaxy.

They lost the ability to take out the Citadel in one go.

No. This only means that reapers are retarded, and ME1 events happened only because reapers are retarded. And being retarded, they could not devise such a sophisticated plan. Not they even need it, because they could fly into a galaxy any time they want, and stomp everyone losing nothing.

They lost the ability to spread throughout the galaxy.
They lost the ability to take out the Citadel in one go.

Rest in peace, logic and common sense. You won't be missed.

So, reapers arrived in full strength, losing competely nothing in the process. We cannot defeat them conventionally, every character in game keeps repeating that.
And, suddenly, ovewhelming and unstoppable force, - can't move freely throghout the galaxy using their own technology(what a nonsensical gibberish this was, but from obvious troll - it expected), and can't take the Citadel.
So, overwhelming and unstoppable force, that can't be stopped - can be stopped.

[Maxster_]

Yate wrote...

face it guys, there are no plot holes

at least no plot holes worse than those in the first two games

if you don't like it that's fine

but don't act like it's objectively bad

0/10.
Keep trying, you are funny

Modifié par Maxster_, 22 novembre 2012 - 03:14 .

[Yate]

@ KingZayd:

1. I was confused too, but this makes sense if you remember that there's no evidence Sovereign sent the signal to the keepers. Catalyst controlled the keepers. Catalyst determined when to start the harvest and open the Citadel relay. Sovereign was left behind when Catalyst lost control over the keepers. (Or, he was left as a 'just in case'.)

2. It's not like the Catalyst has cameras everywhere. It's only eyes are the keepers, and the protheans knew to avoid the keepers. It was probably also preoccupied with directing the reaper invasion.

3. The keepers were supposed to activate that bit. The Catalyst isn't a robot, it has no moving parts. It's only power is mind control, more specifically control over the keepers.

@ Maxster_:

1. Conquering the Citadel is the logical first step. Not only is it their centre of intelligence, it contains the governments and census information, as Vigil said.

2. Relays only let limited reapers through at a time. They are vulnerable to dreadnoughts. Their strength is in numbers.

[Asch Lavigne]

The ending was the least of ME3's problems for me. The auto-dialogue, decisions not mattering (everything from Rachni to filler characters if I let someone die) and random nonsensical Cerberus wackyness killed things for me far, far more than the ending did.

[Maxster_]

Yate wrote...

@ Maxster_:

1. Conquering the Citadel is the logical first step. Not only is it their centre of intelligence, it contains the governments and census information, as Vigil said.

Sure. That is why unstoppable retarded reaper forces was stopped. I glad you agree that ME3 plot makes no sense. That was my point.

Mere existence of the Catalyst destroys what remains was left of overarching plot of the series, after reveal that reapers sat in dark space just for lulz.

2. Relays only let limited reapers through at a time. They are vulnerable to dreadnoughts. Their strength is in numbers.

Relays only let limited reapers through at a time.

So, now you are just making things up, to "prove" your point. Well, this behavior was expected from troll.
Also

They are vulnerable to dreadnoughts. Their strength is in numbers

Especially funny given that reapers not only outguns but also vastly outnumbers council fleets.

I glad that you agreed that conventional victory is possible, and series should end without Catalyst and Crucible lore-breaking nonsense and plotholes.
But you know, it is too late, EAWare destroyed the series with their crap writing in ME3.

Modifié par Maxster_, 22 novembre 2012 - 03:41 .

[KingZayd]

Yate wrote...

@ KingZayd:

1. I was confused too, but this makes sense if you remember that there's no evidence Sovereign sent the signal to the keepers. Catalyst controlled the keepers. Catalyst determined when to start the harvest and open the Citadel relay. Sovereign was left behind when Catalyst lost control over the keepers. (Or, he was left as a 'just in case'.)

2. It's not like the Catalyst has cameras everywhere. It's only eyes are the keepers, and the protheans knew to avoid the keepers. It was probably also preoccupied with directing the reaper invasion.

3. The keepers were supposed to activate that bit. The Catalyst isn't a robot, it has no moving parts. It's only power is mind control, more specifically control over the keepers.

@ Maxster_:

1. Conquering the Citadel is the logical first step. Not only is it their centre of intelligence, it contains the governments and census information, as Vigil said.

2. Relays only let limited reapers through at a time. They are vulnerable to dreadnoughts. Their strength is in numbers.

1. The Protheans carried out their sabotage AFTER the Prothean cycle was complete. So Sovereign was already being left behind.

2. Why doesn't it have cameras everywhere? Why limit itself so much? The Protheans sneaked on when the Reapers had left (except for Sovereign).  Why wasn't it able to detect their hacking?

3. Why doesn't it have direct control over those bits? He's had over a billion years to upgrade his body however he pleased. And that's assuming the Leviathans built the Citadel. If the Reapers/Starchild built it, then why design his body to be so useless? Why give the Organics control over said body?