24 réponses à ce sujet

[Dorje Sylas]

 Decoy was nerfed becaue it was getting aboused on Firebase White and elsewhere, mainly against Geth who had no cover breakers.

Post 1.0.4 mega patch each faction now has numerous cover breakers.

It is long past time to revert Decoy and boost the number of creatures it distracts and how often Pets in general get AIs attention.

(Edit, to be super clear I'm taking about the nerf to Pets. This is not the newer patch introduced Melee Unit Ignore Nerf, I'm not even going to try to argue a case for removing or changing that.)

Modifié par Dorje Sylas, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:18 .

[Klokos]

But the decoy nerf didn't affect Geths, maybe just the bombers.

Modifié par Klokos, 20 novembre 2012 - 07:53 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

In 100% full agreement

SE is not good at all anymore comparatively

[Pyth the Bull]

Decoy is still pretty decent. You just can't use it like; "Oh, I see a Banshee, just let me put decoy out while I'm standing 3 feet in front of her." and then be all like "Oh noes, teh d3coy didnt work liek i wanted. it needz a buf."

[Dorje Sylas]

Klokos wrote...

But the decoy nerf didn't affect Geths, maybe just the bombers.

I'm talking about the nerfs prior to the Melee 100% ignores Nerf. Prior to the patch Bioware reduced the number of AI that could be 'cought' by Decoy and Pets in general, as well as reducing the change they'd get caught in the first place.  This was done to get Geth (prior to the Bomber and working Prime Drone) to actually get passed the hunker-cluster that was Firebase White.

The Melee ignore was put in place to stop Brutes and Banshess humping the Decoy, which people soon discovered as another use.

Now in the current state of the game with Melee units ignoring the Decoy and the Geth having a very viable cover breaker in pyros and bombers, the prior reduced chance and reduced total number of Decoyed AI doesn't make sense and renders decoy a fairly moribund power.

[Walhorin]

at the moment decoy doesn't have a use in a difficulty in gold and higher. Because of the reasons dorje stipulated. Please do something about it.

[Dorje Sylas]

Pyth the Bull wrote...

Decoy is still pretty decent. You just can't use it like; "Oh, I see a Banshee, just let me put decoy out while I'm standing 3 feet in front of her." and then be all like "Oh noes, teh d3coy didnt work liek i wanted. it needz a buf."

Try that on the new Volus with drop decoy then cloak (or cloak then decoy), even after you run away Troopers are still shooting a you, or your team mates.

Bosses are one thing, but Arty (rocket troopers, ravagers, Nemesis, Scions), Trooper, and Captain (Cerber Cap, Marauders, Collecter Cap, Hunters) class should be sufficiently distracted. Units like Pyros, Dargoons, etc.  less so but still with a decent chance.

I'm not suggesting they get rid of the Melee ignore as that's staying, like the needless screen flicker on hunter visions. What I am saying is that they need to roll back the earliest Pet nerfs. The reasons for them don't exist anymore and combined with the Melee Ignore is crippling the power.

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Signed

[Baby Quarian]

I use my SE all the time. I think its one of the funnest characters I have, incenerate and then enerydrain..BOOM explosion. I think decoy is fine where it is. I put it down to distract smaller units and work on the bigger things that get past. If it were to hold things like banshees back, I think it would be a cheap character to use.

Modifié par Quarian Infiltrator, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:17 .

[Boretsky]

signed

[WMcAlister]

No. There's no reason Banshees and Brutes should just stop and stare at it. At least shooty things actually attack it and potentially knock it down.

Nerf was deserved with and without FBW camping.

Edit: Although someone posted an idea about tweaking it lately taht involved increasing its use as an offensive power rather than purely defensive.  That could be interesting

Modifié par WMcAlister, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:19 .

[Pyth the Bull]

Dorje Sylas wrote...

Try that on the new Volus with drop decoy then cloak (or cloak then decoy), even after you run away Troopers are still shooting a you, or your team mates.

Bosses are one thing, but Arty (rocket troopers, ravagers, Nemesis, Scions), Trooper, and Captain (Cerber Cap, Marauders, Collecter Cap, Hunters) class should be sufficiently distracted. Units like Pyros, Dargoons, etc.  less so but still with a decent chance.

I'm not suggesting they get rid of the Melee ignore as that's staying, like the needless screen flicker on hunter visions. What I am saying is that they need to roll back the earliest Pet nerfs. The reasons for them don't exist anymore and combined with the Melee Ignore is crippling the power.

While I still think it's adequate, you make a decent point. I'm for buffs of any kind.

[BridgeBurner]

Here's a list of units that are still fooled by the decoy:

cannibals
assault troopers
collector troopers
geth troopers
marauders
centurions
collector captains
geth rocket troopers
phantoms
bombers
pyros
geth primes
banshees when they are uncharged
.......


Why are you morons still saying decoy is useless? Decoy is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from useless.

Modifié par Annomander, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:21 .

[Zso_Zso]

WMcAlister wrote...

No. There's no reason Banshees and Brutes should just stop and stare at it. At least shooty things actually attack it and potentially knock it down.

Nerf was deserved with and without FBW camping.

Edit: Although someone posted an idea about tweaking it lately taht involved increasing its use as an offensive power rather than purely defensive.  That could be interesting

It would be very helpful (to you as well as others) if you would actually READ the title and OP text before responding to something ELSE that was never asked...

[Dorje Sylas]

WMcAlister wrote...

No. There's no reason Banshees and Brutes should just stop and stare at it. At least shooty things actually attack it and potentially knock it down.

Nerf was deserved with and without FBW camping.

To be clear I'm not talking about walking back the "Melee" nerf. I'm talking about the reduced chances of Decoying units across the board and the reduced number the Decoy can hold. That nerf was done to all Pets as a stopgap until Bioware could figure out something else.

They did. They added Bombers to Geth. Made Pyros ungrablbe. And 'fixed' the Banshee and Brute drool time with the newer Melee Ignore Pets bit.

What needs to be walked back is that first round stop gap nerf. Return Pets to the level of distraction they were originally and with the new units and Melee Ignore all should be well... and make distracting pets useful again above Silver.

[Dorje Sylas]

Annomander wrote...

.......


Why are you morons still saying decoy is useless? Decoy is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from useless.

Because the percent change of those units getting fooled is lower then it should be and the total number that can get fooled at once is also too low given changes to the game.

Modifié par Dorje Sylas, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:24 .

[tutzdes]

Decoy was decent. So was Combat Drone. These were abilities like "good to get 3 ranks and use sometimes". But it's not good for any kit to have TWO abilities like these.

Modifié par tutzdes, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:25 .

[BridgeBurner]

Dorje Sylas wrote...

Annomander wrote...

.......


Why are you morons still saying decoy is useless? Decoy is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from useless.

Because the percent change of those units getting fooled is lower then it should be and the total number that can get fooled at once is also too low given changes to the game.

Ow ok, so thats why I have video footage of my volus platinum solo (game crashed at wave 7) where I have 4 of those units attacking my drone, and im right next to them and im attracting no attention from them whatsoever?

Yes, of course, decoy is useless, cry more.

Perhaps you're just a useless player? Decoy is working fine for me, combat drone is detonating fire explosions on dragoons... its staggering atlasses....

I fail to see how these skills need buffs? They seem to be working pretty fine to me.

Modifié par Annomander, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:28 .

[Riot Inducer]

I agree, in all honesty I was surprised they didn't roll back the max units distracted nerf when they made melee units ignore pets.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Annomander wrote...

Here's a list of units that are still fooled by the decoy:

cannibals
assault troopers
collector troopers
geth troopers
marauders
centurions
collector captains
geth rocket troopers
phantoms
bombers
pyros
geth primes
banshees when they are uncharged
.......


Why are you morons still saying decoy is useless? Decoy is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from useless.

Let us make guns and gun boosting powers only effective against that list of targets and see the river of tears flow.    If a power has any effect at all on anything some people say the power is perfectly fine.

[NuclearTech76]

Annomander wrote...

Here's a list of units that are still fooled by the decoy:

cannibals
assault troopers
collector troopers
geth troopers
marauders
centurions
collector captains
geth rocket troopers
phantoms
bombers
pyros
geth primes
banshees when they are uncharged
.......


Why are you morons still saying decoy is useless? Decoy is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from useless.

This.

It will only draw aggro from 4 enemies at a time though and it will take a moment for aggro to shift.

[mistervirginia]

when you have to roll back balance changes due to newer balance changes, that is not good. not good at all. says a lot about these "balance" changes. are any of the changes thoroughly thought out???

[MajorStupidity]

I think decoy is still decent as is, but it could definitely use some loving from the balance team.
/Signed

I like the amount of people who post without reading the OP.

[Grinch57]

OP, in reading your post, all of it, I agree with the case you make for rolling back the "not melee" nerfs to the "pets." Many other threads on the MP forum are focused on the Volus today, but your idea would be helpful to all the classes that use decoys, drones and other "pets."

As you say, you are not arguing for rolling back the melee nerf, but that with the melee nerf in place, the super patch, the DLC, we now have a different ME3 MP world than the one that existed before.

The cumulative nerfs to pets in general are excessive. This is not to say the pets are worthless, only that they are not balanced and now too weak, with the cumulative nerfs. That they rolled out a new character, with two pets as powers, gives me hope that BioWare may be open to a rebalance of the pets.

Modifié par Grinch57, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:38 .

[mistervirginia]

Grinch57 wrote...

OP, in reading your post, all of it, I agree with the case you make for rolling back the "not melee" nerfs to the "pets." Many other threads on the MP forum are focused on the Volus today, but your idea would be helpful to all the classes that use decoys, drones and other "pets."

As you say, you are not arguing for rolling back the melee nerf, but that with the melee nerf in place, the super patch, the DLC, we now have a different ME3 MP world than the one that existed before.

The cumulative nerfs to pets in general are excessive. This is not to say the pets are worthless, only that they are not balanced and now too weak, with the cumulative nerfs. That they rolled out a new character, with two pets as powers, gives me hope that BioWare may be open to a rebalance of the pets.

my point here exactly.  the super patch that changed MP completely should've come before most balance changes were rolled out.

Modifié par mistervirginia, 20 novembre 2012 - 08:39 .