46 réponses à ce sujet

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Yes I know some of you will try to argue that the game will try to be both but we all know that one is more important in the eyes of Bioware and their EA overlords, just wondering which?

Creating a great game and staying true to your artistic vision? Or creating a product that sells well regardless of quality?

[Face of Evil]

Cease your idiotic trolling, Gandalf. You're dragging out that tired song and dance that "art" and "popularity" are separate and you can't possibly be both. It's Hipster 101, and it's pretentious claptrap.

Good art may go unnoticed and sometimes mediocre art may get more attention than it deserves, but really s***ty art never sells.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 21 novembre 2012 - 07:47 .

[Plaintiff]

I'll just pull out my handy-dandy Corporate Executive Mind-Reader ™.

[zsom]

Face of Evil wrote...

Cease your idiotic trolling, Gandalf. You're dragging out that tired song and dance that "art" and "popularity" are separate and you can't possibly be both. It's Hipster 101, and it's pretentious claptrap.

Good art may go unnoticed and sometimes mediocre art may get more attention than it deserves, but really s***ty art never sells.

Agreed. Sad to see that the trolls are back....

[Dhiro]

I have the answer, but first you must tell me your thoughts on yaoi.

[Plaintiff]

Dhiro wrote...

I have the answer, but first you must tell me your thoughts on yaoi.

Speaking as a homosexual, it doesn't really tickle my pickle.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Face of Evil wrote...

You're dragging out that tired song and dance that "art" and "popularity" are separate and you can't possibly be both.

I dont recall saying anything along those lines at all, I am merely asking a question of which is more important. Of course one would assume that if a game or a piece of art is good then it would most likely be popular just as one would assume that the opposite could be said of a bad game. This isnt always the case but logic would suggest that it would be the most common occurance.

Still I am sure that the good folks at Bioware and EA view one as being more important than the other, just wondering which?

Modifié par Gandalf-the-Fabulous, 21 novembre 2012 - 07:59 .

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Dhiro wrote...

I have the answer, but first you must tell me your thoughts on yaoi.

I have no idea what that is, is that a term I am going to regret googling?

[Dhiro]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

I have the answer, but first you must tell me your thoughts on yaoi.

I have no idea what that is, is that a term I am going to regret googling?

You can do it with my blessings.

[Zanallen]

Almost all art is created with the intent to profit. Very few people create solely out of a desire to make something. The vast majority of art is a product, but that doesn't make it any less art.

[JimboGee]

Yes, heaven forbid we should express an opinion which differs from the majorities accepted view or (I can't believe I'm about to say this) ask a question regarding how people feel. How dare we!

On topic, I'd say sticking to your vision is most important even if you don't get it right first time at least it shows people what you were aiming to achieve.

[Plaintiff]

JimboGee wrote...

Yes, heaven forbid we should express an opinion which differs from the majorities accepted view or (I can't believe I'm about to say this) ask a question regarding how people feel. How dare we!

On topic, I'd say sticking to your vision is most important even if you don't get it right first time at least it shows people what you were aiming to achieve.

It's a pointless exercise. None of us can say with any authority what the developers or the publishers of Dragon Age value.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Zanallen wrote...

Almost all art is created with the intent to profit. Very few people create solely out of a desire to make something. The vast majority of art is a product, but that doesn't make it any less art.

You dont honestly believe that do you? If your sole intent is profit then surely there are more profitable ventures than artistic pursuits? Sure a lot of art is sold and a lot of art is created for the purpose of being sold but why do you think so many artists are willing to sacrifice so much in the pursuit of their dreams?

[Liamv2]

Trolololololol

[Chaos Lord Malek]

Product

[Face of Evil]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Almost all art is created with the intent to profit. Very few people create solely out of a desire to make something. The vast majority of art is a product, but that doesn't make it any less art.

You dont honestly believe that do you? If your sole intent is profit then surely there are more profitable ventures than artistic pursuits? Sure a lot of art is sold and a lot of art is created for the purpose of being sold but why do you think so many artists are willing to sacrifice so much in the pursuit of their dreams?

Artists create because that is a skill they possess. I write for a living because I possess some marginal skill at writing. I enjoy doing it, but at the end of the day, that is pretty much my only skill. I would be a failure as an athlete or a tradesman or a corporate executive, so I don't attempt to do those things. 

Virtually every creative venture that is sold is created with the intent to profit, even if your hope is only to break even. There are only a handful of creative ventures that are done solely "for the art" and are also sold for money, and these were all projects done by artists who could afford to take a loss if their efforts flopped.

That does not mean, as I said earlier, that "art" and "popularity" are distinct. That's as silly as saying the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is bad art because, like, everyone's seen it. Michelangelo's so mainstream.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 21 novembre 2012 - 09:07 .

[Plaintiff]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Almost all art is created with the intent to profit. Very few people create solely out of a desire to make something. The vast majority of art is a product, but that doesn't make it any less art.

You dont honestly believe that do you? If your sole intent is profit then surely there are more profitable ventures than artistic pursuits? Sure a lot of art is sold and a lot of art is created for the purpose of being sold but why do you think so many artists are willing to sacrifice so much in the pursuit of their dreams?

They're anticipating an eventual pay-off that will make the sacrifice worth it, obviously. Nobody pursues an artisitc career with the intent of being starving and homeless, they're shooting for rich and famous, or at the very least, a stable career.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Face of Evil wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Almost all art is created with the intent to profit. Very few people create solely out of a desire to make something. The vast majority of art is a product, but that doesn't make it any less art.

You dont honestly believe that do you? If your sole intent is profit then surely there are more profitable ventures than artistic pursuits? Sure a lot of art is sold and a lot of art is created for the purpose of being sold but why do you think so many artists are willing to sacrifice so much in the pursuit of their dreams?

Artists create because that is a skill they possess. I write for a living because I possess some marginal skill at writing. I enjoy doing it, but at the end of the day, that is pretty much my only skill. I would be a failure as an athlete or a tradesman or a corporate executive, so I don't attempt to do those things. 

Virtually every creative venture that is sold is created with the intent to profit, even if your hope is only to break even. There are only a handful of creative ventures that were done solely "for the art", and these were all projects done by artists who could afford to take a loss.

So what do you write if you dont mind me asking? Books? Short Stories? A column in the Newspaper? Surely you have a goal in life that is more than simply making enough money to "break even"?

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Plaintiff wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Almost all art is created with the intent to profit. Very few people create solely out of a desire to make something. The vast majority of art is a product, but that doesn't make it any less art.

You dont honestly believe that do you? If your sole intent is profit then surely there are more profitable ventures than artistic pursuits? Sure a lot of art is sold and a lot of art is created for the purpose of being sold but why do you think so many artists are willing to sacrifice so much in the pursuit of their dreams?

They're anticipating an eventual pay-off that will make the sacrifice worth it, obviously. Nobody pursues an artisitc career with the intent of being starving and homeless, they're shooting for rich and famous, or at the very least, a stable career.

Perhaps this is true of some people but can you honestly tell me that this is true of all Artists as a whole?

[Plaintiff]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Almost all art is created with the intent to profit. Very few people create solely out of a desire to make something. The vast majority of art is a product, but that doesn't make it any less art.

You dont honestly believe that do you? If your sole intent is profit then surely there are more profitable ventures than artistic pursuits? Sure a lot of art is sold and a lot of art is created for the purpose of being sold but why do you think so many artists are willing to sacrifice so much in the pursuit of their dreams?

They're anticipating an eventual pay-off that will make the sacrifice worth it, obviously. Nobody pursues an artisitc career with the intent of being starving and homeless, they're shooting for rich and famous, or at the very least, a stable career.

Perhaps this is true of some people but can you honestly tell me that this is true of all Artists as a whole?

I'd say it's true of all people generally, the whole purpose of education is because we anticipate a career in our future.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Plaintiff wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Almost all art is created with the intent to profit. Very few people create solely out of a desire to make something. The vast majority of art is a product, but that doesn't make it any less art.

You dont honestly believe that do you? If your sole intent is profit then surely there are more profitable ventures than artistic pursuits? Sure a lot of art is sold and a lot of art is created for the purpose of being sold but why do you think so many artists are willing to sacrifice so much in the pursuit of their dreams?

They're anticipating an eventual pay-off that will make the sacrifice worth it, obviously. Nobody pursues an artisitc career with the intent of being starving and homeless, they're shooting for rich and famous, or at the very least, a stable career.

Perhaps this is true of some people but can you honestly tell me that this is true of all Artists as a whole?

I'd say it's true of all people generally, the whole purpose of education is because we anticipate a career in our future.

Ok I suppose there is some truth to that, not the whole truth but it does take up a large part of it.

[Plaintiff]

For what it's worth: I personally believe that the developers are strongly committed to making the game they want to make, a game that they themselves would enjoy, even if they don't necessarily play it themselves once it is finished.

[Firky]

OK. I wasn't expecting what I found in this thread.

But I have to say. My experience of artists, musicians, writers is that they do what they do because they simply can't stop doing it. It chooses you, rather than the other way around. (Based on people I know, am, am friends with, and am married to.) I can honestly say, having studied music at uni and being currently (barely) employed as a writer, I don't know a single person who is realistically waiting to break even, let alone expects to be rich. Every "artist" I know (I'm in my 30s) has a day job, on the side.

I guess, to me, the term "product" implies that it's something you consume, or need, an exchange of money for services. "Art" (to me) is something that speaks to you, that inspires or whatever. Paying for it is adjunct.

I guess, if I think of games as products, it's more gizmos, platformers, puzzlers etc. Value for money, however, is an entirely different thing ... art or product.

I'd be sad to think I was buying DA3 because I want to consume an RPG, based on its mechanics alone. Can you argue the gameplay/interactivity itself is art? (Although I do consume RPGs and love mechanics/systems to bits.) I'd rather DA3 be art. (Definitions vary. Don't hate me. )

Edit: PS. My husband just reminded me that, between us, we know 5 people who are full time employed in symphonic orchestras, 3 employed in army/police bands and 2 full time childrens performers. One is a pirate. But, I was thinking more creative artist than performing - although I'm sure there's lot of personal expression involved in making music with an orchestra. I'm sure there's a fair bit of "day job" to being a pirate, though, or even a percussionist in an orchestra. (Still. I think I lost my point somewhere ... )

Modifié par Firky, 21 novembre 2012 - 12:08 .

[Biotic Sage]

The priority for the bean counters at EA/Bioware: product that sells.

Fortunately most are smart enough to realize that low quality art is a hard sell, especially to this demographic.