47 réponses à ce sujet

[stillnotking]

Yep... Crushing Prison/Blood Wound + Curse of Mortality is a very nasty combo, and much more devastating than Overwhelm.

Good to know that Overwhelm can be resisted. I have never seen Shale get Overwhelmed, but I've never seen her resist one either, so I figured it was just a unique golem immunity of hers.

[Khumak]

TUHD wrote...

Happens often enough... however, this can avoided by smart aggro-ing. At times, for some stupid reason they go after your healer EVEN if that one only was healing (still fail to understand that)

Makes perfect sense to me.  If I'm fighting a group of melee types and every time I hurt one of them a guy in a bathrobe waves his hand and heals them back to full strength, I'm going straight for the guy in the bathrobe...  Heals cause aggro just like a damage or a debuff does.  The key to keeping your mages alive is aggro management and/or force field.

[XWolfGhost]

Considering how many we get, our enemies don't have enough. Wolves can't use overwhelm when their all dead from a Cone of Cold and a few easy crits, or they are all sleeping, or have no stamina, etc.

As for the one Dragon move, with a healer its no problem. Just pick up Wynne, level her up a few times, get all the hexes, and any boss is a piece of cake. Its a shame they didn't involve healing and micromanaging more in boss fights. You can just switch her into your group for boss fights.

[tevikolady]

Bratinov wrote...

"I win" abilities?
A successful Crushing Prison or Curse of Mortality cast on my mage who's main purpose is to keep the party alive by CC and healing (until i realized i need the anti spell shield). If only Leliana is left alive I reload the game rigth there.

Overwhelm and grab can be countered by the right stun/disable ability.

Bring two mages along and spec one into Force field and cast force field on anyone who gets cursed or prisoned

[termokanden]

No, you don't need any spell shield.

The "I win" abilities become significantly less "win" when you realize you can Force Field out of all of them. Yes, that goes for Curse of Mortality as well, even if the spell effect is already on your character.

Modifié par termokanden, 04 janvier 2010 - 01:30 .

[Bratinov]

Thanks I may try it.

I usually roll the only mage in the party and casting force field on myself really weakens the party, I only do it if Im out of options and it cant be done while stunned/disabled that's why Spell Shield is a lifesaver since i have lots of mana to burn. Templar magic purge also helps out, if my tank has the stamina. I usually Mana clash the first caster I see. I hate using healing pots.

[Vae_Victis]

Naked Fury wrote...

Jack-Nader wrote...
Overwelm - tends to only trigger when your health is less than 50%. You can also use force field, freeze, paralyze etc which stops the attack.

Having spent time studying the mechanics of Overwhelm, I can say that it is definitely not dependent on your own health.

Going through the scripts and AI 2das (they use a tactics system similiar to your own characters) Overwhelm isn't set up to go off when the player's health goes below 50% but when the Dog/Spider/Bear/Wolf's own health goes below 50%. The Dog/Bear/Wolves have checks at other health points below 50% as well. Bears are set to Overwhelm targets that have Knocked Down status as well. Werewolves Overwhelm as a default attack.

It gets a little more complicated though in that these are not guaranteed Overwhelms. A Dog won't Overwhelm as soon as it drop below 50% health for example, there is a percentage chance it'll Overwhelm. Usually 50 or 25% while Bears/Werewolves are higher and Spiders are only 5% by default.

And yes all the above only applies if the creature has appropriate Stamina levels. These are default charactertistics and don't apply to special cases such as Wolf Alphas and Witherfang.

If you think of a Dragon as a 360 degree circle she'll only Overwhelm if your standing in Melee range in the front 180 degrees. In other words don't be dumb enough to stand next to the dragon's mouth and she won't bite. Hit and move cause she has a 100% chance of turning to face her most hated enemy.

Modifié par Vae_Victis, 04 janvier 2010 - 02:54 .

[likeorasgod]

Lvl 11? Are you doing Red Cliff first after Loathing? I allways go od the Tower to get the extra ATTR points. Than I knock off the elvish part. Notice with these newer play throughs (I'm on number 5). I been doing a little of every thing and than finishing off the bosses after getting up in levles and it's been alot easier and faster. I just finished Redcliff on this play through and am lvl 14. I allready done the tower and elves part with alot of the boards side quest. Remember that if anything is tuff for you, go od anouther section and come back. I was in my first play throughs killing the dragon around lvl 17 or so, now I call it before I go to finish the guantlet and ben hititng it at 14-15.



I don't mind the over power skills, cause allso remember when they are chomping/ramming your players...all the others are getting free shots so that is when I hit with what I can the hardest. Allso AOE spells, must be my equipment cause I casted point black fireballs and other spells and recieved 0 or next to no damage on my chars party members cause they have gotten rings and armor with fire resistance.

[Zecele]

So really, the sacred ashes quest should be completed at a much higher level I guess.

The high dragon is doable at your level (11). It's really about getting the right group composition. If you want to go for the least amount of headache grab Alistair, Wyne, and either Morrigan or Lelianna.

Then go shopping and pick up as many of the fire resist crystals that you can (don't worry about overstocking these as you will also need them for Flemeth) and craft as many lyrium potions as you can even if it's only the lesser ones.

Have Alistair tank it. Put him in the heaviest armor you can and have him using the fire crystals as they cool down. Put everyone but him at range including your player character. If your player character is a melee type just give him a bow even if he sucks with it. You'll save a lot of healing by keeping just one melee on the Dragon.

After that it's pretty much tank and spank. Use health pots on Alistair when he's on his feet because to survive a grab you need to make sure Heal and group heal are on cooldown. Set up a tactic with Wyne to constantly cast regeneration on Alistair as well as to chug a lyrium portion when below 25% mana. Something like Alistair health <90% cast regenerate. When he gets grabbed and his health goes to 50% cast heal, then at 50% again cast group heal. That should get him through and he'll be on his feet for a health pot before he gets hit again.

Modifié par Zecele, 04 janvier 2010 - 03:16 .

[ash the rpgamer]

Bratinov wrote...

"I win" abilities?
A successful Crushing Prison or Curse of Mortality cast on my mage who's main purpose is to keep the party alive by CC and healing (until i realized i need the anti spell shield). If only Leliana is left alive I reload the game rigth there.

Overwhelm and grab can be countered by the right stun/disable ability.

why do you reload if only Leliana is left?
i think alot of people under rate her shes always been fantastic as a DW rogue or rogue archer for me anyway.
she'd often win fights by herself, 1 of my favourite characters personality and look wise and a great addition in any battle

[Bratinov]

Mostly because I spec her as a archer and early archery sucks so bad, and making her DW is too much trouble, I always use Zevran once i give him enough Deft Hands ranks... i like her better as a character thought.

[Rahelron]

TriggerHappy64 wrote...

What point is there to include abilities like overpower or dragons that can pick you up and toss, killing you immediately?  It's kind of ridiculous that the developers would include something that cannot be resisted or countered.

The "pick up" ability doesn't kill!! Your character can't drink potions while he is grabbed, but he still can be healed!!! Take wynne with you when you go to fight the dragon and even in nightmare mode you'll be able to keep every character alive during that fight.

[Ponce de Leon]

I usually use heal and regeneration with Wynne on the grabbed person. When possible, a little cone of cold helps a lot, but the people with the above mentioned heals are able to stay alive.

[Vae_Victis]

Zecele wrote...

So really, the sacred ashes quest should be completed at a much higher level I guess.

The high dragon is doable at your level (11). It's really about getting the right group composition. If you want to go for the least amount of headache grab Alistair, Wyne, and either Morrigan or Lelianna.

Then go shopping and pick up as many of the fire resist crystals that you can (don't worry about overstocking these as you will also need them for Flemeth) and craft as many lyrium potions as you can even if it's only the lesser ones.

Have Alistair tank it. Put him in the heaviest armor you can and have him using the fire crystals as they cool down. Put everyone but him at range including your player character. If your player character is a melee type just give him a bow even if he sucks with it. You'll save a lot of healing by keeping just one melee on the Dragon.

After that it's pretty much tank and spank. Use health pots on Alistair when he's on his feet because to survive a grab you need to make sure Heal and group heal are on cooldown. Set up a tactic with Wyne to constantly cast regeneration on Alistair as well as to chug a lyrium portion when below 25% mana. Something like Alistair health <90% cast regenerate. When he gets grabbed and his health goes to 50% cast heal, then at 50% again cast group heal. That should get him through and he'll be on his feet for a health pot before he gets hit again.

To reiterate if you simply maneuver your tank so that he/she stays on the High Dragon's rear flanks the High Dragon will neither Overwhelm nor Breath Fire. You should seperate out your Ranged people as well cause she'll Breathe Fire if they are clumped in groups of 2 or larger.

She'll simply use kicks, Tail Sweep, and WIng Buffet on occasion  trying to get your Tank into the two front flanks. If you keep moving you can stay ahead of her. This makes the fight cake and is how I was able to solo her on my 2-H Warrior solo Nightmare run. Since she won't breathe you don't have to worry about Fire Resist though I did have to use a few Health potions. Rock Salve makes a big difference too.

[Vaeliorin]

The only thing that bothers me is when my only mage gets Crushing Prisoned when I don't have a templar in the party. And the only reason that bugs me is because it simply means that character is dead, there's nothing I can do about it.



Granted, that's only happened to me once or twice.



Other than that, the only time anything is an "I win" ability is when I don't notice it's happened (and yes, I've managed to miss someone getting grabbed before...they still didn't die. Go go healing tactics!)

[DJ0000]

Cone of cold usually makes them drop you, like hitting a dog with a newspaper LOL.



Also, from what I've read, a spirit healer using Cleansing Aura draws as much aggro as the Warrior aggro abilities.

[Creature 1]

Sacrificial Bias wrote...
Curse of Mortality?

Cleanse Area. 

There are no attacks in the game that do not have a counter.  Curse of Mortality/Crushing Prison -> any dispel.  Overwhelm/grabbing -> stunning/freezing/paralyzing/petrifying/Force Field. 

[Spazmodian]

stillnotking wrote...

Yep... Crushing Prison/Blood Wound + Curse of Mortality is a very nasty combo, and much more devastating than Overwhelm.
Good to know that Overwhelm can be resisted. I have never seen Shale get Overwhelmed, but I've never seen her resist one either, so I figured it was just a unique golem immunity of hers.

Shale is a golem.  Golems can't be grabbed or overwhelmed.  This is what allows Shale to fairly easily solo any dragon in the game.

[TriggerHappy64]

likeorasgod wrote...

Lvl 11? Are you doing Red Cliff first after Loathing? I allways go od the Tower to get the extra ATTR points. Than I knock off the elvish part. Notice with these newer play throughs (I'm on number 5). I been doing a little of every thing and than finishing off the bosses after getting up in levles and it's been alot easier and faster. I just finished Redcliff on this play through and am lvl 14. I allready done the tower and elves part with alot of the boards side quest. Remember that if anything is tuff for you, go od anouther section and come back. I was in my first play throughs killing the dragon around lvl 17 or so, now I call it before I go to finish the guantlet and ben hititng it at 14-15.
.

Yeah I went to Red Cliff first and then did a little bit of the other places.  When confronting the dragon I had Alistair, Leliana and Morrigan.  Morrigan had one point in heal.  I had Alistair and my main character, flank the dragon on both sides while I had Morrigan and Leliana from range.  Usually I could avoid the dragons mouth if I kept moving but it was difficult to micro-manage the two melee fighters and I would always wind up getting grabbed.  Morrigan would also be too far away to interrupt and the only spell she had that could was cone of cold (I don't think this was working with the high dragon) or sleep.  I should probably wait until I get Wynne before I do this fight.

[Kepha]

TriggerHappy64 wrote...

So really, the sacred ashes quest should be completed at a much higher level I guess.

You can complete the sacred ashes quest and come back and kill the dragon later.

[El-Destructo]

curse of mortality is not a big issue at all, just get alistair aoe magic cleanse and bam, your tank can remove it from himself. crushing prison is worse since you need a second person in the party to remove it because the victim (usually the tank, alistair, who is coincidentally the templar. doh!) cannot act.

as for grabs... used to be a problem for me until i learned how to counter it with shield bash/pommel strike/dirty fighting. two handed warrior with pommel strike is by far the best dealing with dragons due to indomitable. no bad luck like you might have with your rogue getting knocked on his/her arse just as your tank gets eaten.

just always make sure to save a little extra stamina at all times so someone in your party can do one of those moves when necessary. being caught unprepared is bad and the tank can easily die before you recover enough stamina if all your party is hovering around empty during the fight.

Modifié par El-Destructo, 05 janvier 2010 - 01:15 .

[Schwinni]

For me the best strategy to fight Flemeth or the high dragon is to send only one character into close fight and let the others attack with ranged weapons. This way you healer has to heal only one person at a time and not three. The fight will take a bit longer time, but should be easier to manage.



Also it seems to me that fighting the dragons at level 14/15 is much easier than at level 20 due to the scaling of the dragon. At least I had that feeling with my latest character when fighting Flemeth. I have to see how it is when fighting the high dragon...

[NinjaWJ]

Using Shale against Dragons seems really good. The High Dragon killed Alistair my tank and Morrigan so it was up to my mage and Shale. Shale kept bahsing the Drgaon while i healed him and casting tons of spells on the Dragon. I was very surprised.







Anyways i think that grab by the Flemeth dragon is ridiculous its like a one hit kill