53 réponses à ce sujet

[ozsras]

At first I thought Alistair was supposed to be in his mid-20's to early 30's. But after several playthroughs I think he's closer to early 20's. At least personality wise, physically he looks in his mid 20's or possible 30.



I dunno, it's his personality that makes me think he's younger. Morrigan too. I guess you could say that was upbringing but still a lot of the comments they make - it makes me think they are not that old.



Problem for me is that I play characters close to my age and while I'm no Wynne I'm not Alistair either.

[celdoloth]

Huh. Well, Alistair sure looks and acts older than Cailan. Then again, Cailan has lived a life of privilege and luxury, while Alistair has slept in barns and experienced the hardships of templar training, so I could see how he would seem older despite the age difference. And biological age often does not equate how one behaves or looks either.



As for Loghain, the game thus fails at graphics, because frankly he looks to be in his late 40s to early 50s, and is ramarked as looking older than he is, so in the words of our dear friend Pseudo Weylon, "Bah!"

[MorningBird]

celdoloth: I've bumped Morrigan's age down to between 20 and 25. The reason I had her max age set at 30 before was because--well, to me--she LOOKS older than 25. She's got a very mature image, from the slanted eyes to the elongated face (whereas Lelianna's large eyes and round face make her appear younger).

I agree with you that her immature behavior speaks of a younger age, but I always attributed that more to her lack of social interaction than her age.

smore006: bumped Alistair's age down to 18-20. Still in shock over how young he is. He's got an epicly manly face. D:

Modifié par MorningBird, 04 janvier 2010 - 07:58 .

[Ubasti]

I don't think Alistair is that young. My husband is 40, and he still talks and acts a lot like Alistair (though not publicly  ). For me it seems fairly reasonable that Alistair is older than Cailan, I mean wasn't Maric supposed to be so in love with Rowan that he wouldn't have had an affair with a maid while married to her? Just something I've read from these forums though, haven't yet had the time to read the books. So I'd say if Cailan is around 21-25, then Alistair would be at least 25-29 or something? And in real life, men of that age don't usually behave so grown up at all, either .

What comes to our world's medieval period, I think DAO is kind of modernized version, as usually all of the fantasy genre is. In the real medieval era, people (especially the noble) could get engaged when they were born, and moved to live (especially women) to their future husband's family in an early age. They also could get married at the age of 12. It wasn't unheard of to marry a girl of 12-14 to a much older man. And love usually played no role in the marriage, it was more about the agreement done by the parents and relatives to gain favours, money and allies. So I think in DAO this isn't the case.

What comes to Morrigan, well she wears heavy make-up, which usually always makes a woman look older than what they are, and Leliana on the other hand wears little make-up. So Morrigan could be anywhere between 20-28, but I'd say she is more likely around 22-25. But who knows, she could even be 30, but in the lack of life experience, because it's the experience that makes us mature, not the years.

And the dog, well, I'd say he's about 4-5 years, since dogs build like that mature slowly into their full muscular mass .

[nos_astra]

celdoloth wrote...

This would place Alistair at a few years older, around 25-27, which befits his personality well I think.

This collides heavily with the fact that Alistair was only Templar-in-training. He was sent to the chantry at the age of 10 and conscripted to the Grey Wardens only 6 months prior to Ostagar that would make 15-17 years of training without taking vows? Never ever. 20, give or take 2 years.

[Ubasti]

klarabella wrote...

celdoloth wrote...
This would place Alistair at a few years older, around 25-27, which befits his personality well I think.

This collides heavily with the fact that Alistair was only Templar-in-training. He was sent to the chantry at the age of 10 and conscripted to the Grey Wardens only 6 months prior to Ostagar that would make 15-17 years of training without taking vows? Never ever. 20, give or take 2 years.

This actually makes sense. But then, even thinking that after 10 years of training and not taking the wows seems unreasonable. Though in the wiki it is said, that Alistair was a rebel, so maybe they didn't let him take the wows? He wasn't very popular in the chantry at all. This part in the game is very vague, I think, since sometimes Alistair speaks of him leaving the arl like he'd been older than ten, but of course it is told that he was ten. It seems odd to me when I play, I always get the feeling "wait, you were ten when you left, how could you think like that at that age?". I can't remember the exact wording he uses, but I think the are some things not so consistent in his dialogue.

[Sidreus]

According to Toolset Alistair is 32 and Morrigan is 30 years old. If I recall correctly Leliana is 24 and Zevran is 25. Can't remember others ages tho'.



Also yes Cailan is younger than Alistair. He is 25 years old, according to Toolset again.

[smore006]

klarabella's explanation puts Alistair's age into context even if we consider only the game. If consider the novels as well (and i think we should), then there is no need for arguments. He is that young (though i agree that he looks older in the game).

@sidreus: not sure where do you see this in the Toolset but the information about Cailan being younger than Alistair is wrong. 

I beg you all to read the novels first, to see the 'bigger picture'.

Modifié par smore006, 04 janvier 2010 - 10:23 .

[Ponce de Leon]

From what I understand, the PC age depends on the Origin.

The dwarf origins are the best example :

Dwarf Noble : you are the second child of the king. Younger than Trian, but older than Bhelen.

Dwarf Commoner : you are the younger child, and proceeding back to Orzammar and speaking to Bhelen, he will welcome you as a "little brother/sister" meaning you are possibly younger than Bhelen in the Dwarf commoner. So I'd say DN origin has about 30-35 years, while DC origin has 20-25. Or maybe it's just a matter of month...

[Maria Caliban]

smore006 wrote...

klarabella's explanation puts Alistair's age into context even if we consider only the game. If consider the novels as well (and i think we should), then there is no need for arguments. He is that young (though i agree that he looks older in the game).

I'm going to trust the toolset over fan speculation.

Yes, I know people want Morrigan to be the child of Maric and Flemeth, and people want Alistar to be the child of Maric and Fiona, but wanting it doesn't make it so.

dark-lauron wrote...

From what I understand, the PC age depends on the Origin.

This is correct. You can make your PC look like a spring chicken or old nag, but you can also make your casteless dwarf without a brand.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 04 janvier 2010 - 11:45 .

[ejoslin]

Sidreus wrote...

According to Toolset Alistair is 32 and Morrigan is 30 years old. If I recall correctly Leliana is 24 and Zevran is 25. Can't remember others ages tho'.

Also yes Cailan is younger than Alistair. He is 25 years old, according to Toolset again.

These numbers make sense to me.  When Alistair tells Wynne about the one time he and Cailin met, it certainly sounds like Cailin is just a bit older than a toddler (OOOOOH! Swords!) and Alistair is old enough to have been taught proper manners and be very aware of Cailin being royalty.  Leliana gives you a timeline, so I knew she was in her 20s.  I thought Zevran was older, however; he looks older.  I suppose that line of work would age you though.

Edit: I find an 18 year old Alistair more sympathetic than a 32 year old Alistair, however. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 janvier 2010 - 11:59 .

[nos_astra]

Maria Caliban wrote...
I'm going to trust the toolset over fan speculation.

Somewhere on this forum it was confirmed (by David Gaider, if I'm not terribly mistaken) that the toolset is wrong.
Originally Alistair was supposed to be older but he had to be rewritten.

[MorningBird]

Eek... ages adjusted in the first post again.

I sort of wish I wasn't on xbox now.  I had no idea the age of each character was in the toolset!

@klarabella: Is it possible, then, that Alistair is under 30 but over 25?  Because he just appears... too old to be 20, and his voice is quite mature for someone of that age.  I'm having trouble coming to terms with the fact that he may be so young.

Modifié par MorningBird, 04 janvier 2010 - 12:05 .

[ejoslin]

The more I think about Alistair's age, the more I hope he really is young. If he really is only 18 - 20, it explains the innocence, it definitely explains the infatuation, his self-centeredness, and it explains why he would break up with the PC when being made king (unless you play your cards correctly). If he really were 25 or older, he would be a very weak person; at 18 - 20, he's just an immature one.

[Lady Catastrophe]

I've always thought that Alistair is about 23 years old.I agree his appearance in game looks a little older than that,but if anything,I blame that on his hard (?) childhood.By nature he seems younger because of his pretty severe confidence issues and how shy he is around the female PC.

[smore006]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'm going to trust the toolset over fan speculation.

Yes, I know people want Morrigan to be the child of Maric and Flemeth, and people want Alistar to be the child of Maric and Fiona, but wanting it doesn't make it so.

We may call it fan speculation, but even you have to agree that the theory of Alistair being Fiona and Maric's son is more than strongly supported by pretty much every (related) sentence both from The Calling and the game. I'd rather trust the hints made by the writers in the novel and in the game than a plain number thrown in by a random toolset developer (no offense meant to the toolset development team, i simply think they are not the primary source of the lore).

I haven't heard about the idea of Morrigan by now, though. Neither i think i like it. 

Edit: found a piece of information according to which Alistair's "Toolset age" is wrong:http://social.biowar...453627/1#463285

Modifié par smore006, 04 janvier 2010 - 01:57 .

[David Falkayn]

celdoloth wrote...

One thing to keep in mind is that, despite magic helping with the whole die young thing that medieval times had, that your life started much earlier than it does in modern western culture. People also married younger, as the younger you started, the more children you could have, which were your legacy. For example, Fergus having his first child at 28? That is very late to just now starting to have your heirs. Unless he did not find a wife until close to then, unlikely given his high level of nobility and his relative attractiveness, he would most likely have his first child a year or two after he got married, placing that time around 22 or 23 at most. And yes, I would say the child is around 7, so that puts Fergus at 29-30, making the Human PC around 25-27.

There is no birth control back in this day, and no abortion save very dangerous and often fatal herbal methods. So children often came early and often. Then again, it is often repeated that children are a rare blessing, so it could be that Ferelden, or Thedas in general, has a low birth rate, making some later ages more likely.

Finally, age is mentioned for two characters off the top of my head. First, when Wynne is talking to Lelianna, Lelianna remarks that she looks younger than she actually is. I would wager, since she looks around early to mid twenties, that she is actually in her late twenties to maybe 30. She has a lot of life experience. "Spent most of my adult life as one [Bard]" would indicate that, since adulthood starts around 17-18, that she came to Lothering at earliest 25, to around 27, and it is said that she stayed 2 years in Lothering.

Second, if you get Loghain in your party, one of the other characters, I cannot remember who, states that they expected Loghain to be older than he is. Loghain then says something to the effect that everything he has been through has caused him to look older than he is, thus I would place him in his early to mid 40s, which would match him having a young daughter (Anora seems to me to be around 21, which I will explain my reasoning on just below).

.

You have to be careful about marriage ages: Marriage age is itself a form of birth control in that the younger a woman marries, the longer her period of fertility.  In the middle ages, it wasn't at all uncommon for men to marry in their late twenties/early to mid thirties as it was expected for the man to be established with land and/or an occupation in order to be able to support a family.  Generally, women married anywhere from their late teens to mid twenties--it's a common misconception that medieval women married in their early/mid teens--betrothals, yes--marriages, not so often.  You do start life earlier in pre-modern societies--you don't have time for such luxuries as adolescence or young adulthood--those come with industrialized and post-industrialized society.  The reason why life expectancies were so short back then wasn't because people keeled over and died upon hitting that magic 40 year mark--it was because of high infant mortality.  Fergus being in his mid to late thirties would not be inconceivable with the human PC being in his/her early to mid twenties.  It's also very probable that Fergus and the PC had one or more siblings between them who died for one reason or another.  Again, the birthrate in Thedas wouldn't necessarily be low--it's just that the infant mortality rate is high.  For most of the party to be in their mid to late 20s makes a lot of sense--shouldn't see too many older than that--Oghren and Loghain being the two major excpetions.

[J.O.G]

smore006 wrote...
I beg you all to read the novels first, to see the 'bigger picture'.

Fiona's son is 15/16 in DA:O. All the comments of Leliana and a Female PC wouldn't make much sense when Alistair were behaving exactly as would be expected from a teenager

Modifié par J.O.G, 04 janvier 2010 - 01:06 .

[smore006]

J.O.G wrote...
Fiona's son is 15/16 in DA:O.

If i remember correctly, the events of The Calling take place 11 years after The Stolen Throne, which was 30 years ago. This means Fiona's son is 18-19. I know the wiki says it's 14 years after TST, but i'm treating that information carefully. When i get home, i'll look that up in the book.  If it's 14, i'll stand corrected.

btw, Maric didn't seem a guy laying with every other female to me. Wouldn't two bastard sons be a bit two much from Maric the Saviour?

Edit: on page 24 of The Calling it says: "Eight years ago, both of you traveled in the Deep Roads”. Since we both agreed that the events The Stolen Throne happened 30 years before Origins, we can consider this a draw. Both of us is wrong; Fiona's son is 21 or 22 by the time of Origins.

Edit2: strange finding. The above quote is from the digital copy of the first chapter, made available by Bioware here: http://files.bioware...ing_ch1_pt1.pdf. In the printed book, however, it says fourteen years. I'm confused... I was wrong, never the less.

Modifié par smore006, 04 janvier 2010 - 03:07 .

[Sidreus]

smore006 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'm going to trust the toolset over fan speculation.

Yes, I know people want Morrigan to be the child of Maric and Flemeth, and people want Alistar to be the child of Maric and Fiona, but wanting it doesn't make it so.

We may call it fan speculation, but even you have to agree that the theory of Alistair being Fiona and Maric's son is more than strongly supported by pretty much every (related) sentence both from The Calling and the game. I'd rather trust the hints made by the writers in the novel and in the game than a plain number thrown in by a random toolset developer (no offense meant to the toolset development team, i simply think they are not the primary source of the lore.

I haven't heard about the idea of Morrigan by now, though. Neither i think i like it. 

Edit: found a piece of information according to which Alistair's "Toolset age" is wrong:http://social.biowar...453627/1#463285

Aha! Thanks for the lead. Anyhow with all that wrinkles around his eyes Alistair looks older than mid-20s anyway.

Also that explains why most of the characters are at the age of 24/25 in game. Dairren, Zevran, Fergus, Leliana, Cailin etc.

[Vae_Victis]

klarabella wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
I'm going to trust the toolset over fan speculation.

Somewhere on this forum it was confirmed (by David Gaider, if I'm not terribly mistaken) that the toolset is wrong.
Originally Alistair was supposed to be older but he had to be rewritten.

There is A LOT of legacy (meaning this how we were originally going to do it but just setting it aside and ignoring it is easier than changing it and why delete it, i.e. Shale DLC, when we may use it later) information in the Toolset. The game was in development for 5 years, things change.

[Sialater]

It's a civilization without sunscreen and sunglasses. EVERYONE's going to have crow's feet by their early 20's.



Except Wynne. She's too cool. Not to mention having been locked up in a tower her whole life.

[NWelf]

MorningBird wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

In the Human Noble origin you are constantly referred to as "Pup" which is what you would call a kid not a 35 year old (who would be either hound or ****)

I see your point, but it's the Human Noble's family who refer to them as such, not all of Highever.  I'm past 20 in years, and my parents still use my embarrassing nicknames, and they'll probably continue to do so until I'm well past 30.

Fergus is old enough to have a son who looks to be around 7 in age, so I'd say he's somewhere between 35 and 40.  The PC doesn't seem to be that much younger than his/her older brother.

Plus, while Brice and Fergus are away, the PC is the one they leave behind in charge of the castle.  That's a lot of responsibility to stack on someone who is only 20 years in age.  You're still 'wet behind the ears' at that point.

25-35 seems... fair for a PC of any origin.

Yes if your thinking in terms of todays standards, but back then, the age of majority was much younger, as people didnt live as long back then as they do now.  And in this context, it isnt unheard of for a 16 year old to be put in charge of the castle while the older men go off to war.  Or a duaghter being married and having a child before she even turned 18.  So I guess it depends on how you view their social customs at the time. To me I would put alistair and the pc at about 20, cailan at about 25, maric died at around 46, loghain is around 50-52 at the begining of origins, eamon at around 48 and teagan around 41.  Zevran and Sten I would put both around mid 30's, leliana around 25, Wynne probably early to mid 60's, oghren its hard to say, probably in his 40's if I had to hazard a guess.  Morrigan I would put in her mid to late 20's. 

Any Questions?? LOL

[jumpydragonage]

Toolset does not tell age. Alistair has to be younger than Cailan because Cailan was around 7 when Fiona had Alistair. When you go to return to Ostagar the papers say that Anora is going on 30 and Loghain says at the landsmeet that Anira was a few years older than Cailan. To me, each Origin story has a different age. And I don't think Fergus is that old.

Cousland-19 to 24
Brosco-25 to 30
Mahariel-20 to 24
Tabris

Cousland

[jumpydragonage]

Sorry I accidentally press send.

Tabris- 19 to 24
Aeducan- 22- 27
Amell