104 réponses à ce sujet

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Well in DA2 all you can do is take a vocally neutral stance. Although in the end it doesn't matter who you side with. I agree with having a neutrality stance. I also hope they allow for us to have more reasons behind say siding with Templars so they don't seem evil. Same for mages. The more reasons we can give for why we have a certain stance the easier it will be to say that both sides have their flaws.

[Statulos]

In terms of plot the relevance of Hawke´s involvement is none. Even if you don´t help Anders, the chantry blows up and the whole showdown in the Gallows happens the same way. Cassandra is trying to find the little details of the whole affair to discover that ultimately, Hawke had nothing to do with it.

Making a decission or not making it is simply irrelevant for the larger picture.

The situation is not remotely close to being forced to take decissions in DA:O. You need the dwarves to fight the Blight, fine. And to get them, they need a king and that´s what you provide. If you remove the Warden from the equation things actually change.

You take Hawke from the equation and things do not change. Even if Meredith didn´t get the red lyrium and went completely mad, she´d have called the rite of anullment after the Chantry blowing up. The only difference is that she wouldn´t have turned super sayan.

Modifié par Statulos, 23 novembre 2012 - 04:28 .

[Taint Master]

Statulos wrote...

In terms of plot the relevance of Hawke´s involvement is none. Even if you don´t help Anders, the chantry blows up and the whole showdown in the Gallows happens the same way. Cassandra is trying to find the little details of the whole affair to discover that ultimately, Hawke had nothing to do with it.

Making a decission or not making it is simply irrelevant for the larger picture.

In regards to the ultimate outcome, yes.  But in regards to Hawke's involvement in the larger conflict, no.  If Hawke was completely neutral, with everything simply happening around him, his story wouldn't be worth telling.

[PsychoBlonde]

Taint Master wrote...
You can't have a story about a "hero" who changes thedas by abstaining...  

If Hawke just left, the entire game would've been pointless.  Decisiveness leads to change.

Refusing to take one of the offered options is not the same as doing nothing.  If a serial killer shows up in your house and says, "I'm gong to let you pick, do I chop off your RIGHT hand or your LEFT hand" the proper answer is to shoot him in the head, not pick a hand.

It would be really nice if the protagonist in DA3 is allowed to develop his/her own agenda rather than just taking a pre-fab one off some faction.  Agendas you pick up off other people tend to suck.

[Statulos]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Taint Master wrote...
You can't have a story about a "hero" who changes thedas by abstaining...  

If Hawke just left, the entire game would've been pointless.  Decisiveness leads to change.

Refusing to take one of the offered options is not the same as doing nothing.  If a serial killer shows up in your house and says, "I'm gong to let you pick, do I chop off your RIGHT hand or your LEFT hand" the proper answer is to shoot him in the head, not pick a hand.

It would be really nice if the protagonist in DA3 is allowed to develop his/her own agenda rather than just taking a pre-fab one off some faction.  Agendas you pick up off other people tend to suck.

More on that, I missed the chance of telling Sebastian a simple "yeah, bring it on, you zelot ******".

[PsychoBlonde]

Statulos wrote...

More on that, I missed the chance of telling Sebastian a simple "yeah, bring it on, you zelot ******".

Heh, I would like to see Aggressive PC have opportunities to blow their top at people and cow them into submission.

Maybe if we get that Batshyte Insane tone I asked for . . .

[Herr Uhl]

Taint Master wrote...

You can't have a story about a "hero" who changes thedas by abstaining... 

If Hawke just left, the entire game would've been pointless.  Decisiveness leads to change.

I thought that was the point though, to see the inevitability of armed conflict despite your best efforts.

At least that is how I played it.

[Helena Tylena]

I wouldn't mind a third, neutral option. What I would mind, however, was an obviously 'good' option where nobody dies and everyone prances around meadows holding hands and singing songs under the rainbow.
Alternatively, I want this third, 'best' option to be extra hard to obtain. Think Connor: At first, you had the option of sacrificing the mother to save the child from possession; or kill the child. However, if you played your cards right, a third option was there where you could call in the Circle mages for help. This option was obviously best, since nobody dies and everybody is happy. However, it was just a bit too easy for my tastes. Make an option like that available, but at greater costs, either personal, or in the grander scheme of things.

People also seem to forget that DA:O also had, basically, just one ending. Who died (if anyone) was pretty insignificant a change, on par with killing or not killing Anders in DA:II, and unless the God Baby will play a big role later on (which it might not, since it's not necessarily canon), there really was no difference in each of the endings.
Hell, I'd go as far as to say that the endings for ME3 were more varied than those of DA:O.

[fchopin]

TJPags wrote...

Taint Master wrote...

Statulos wrote...

Taint Master wrote...

This isn't a very realistic request. Real life is full of dualities.

Look at the last presidential election. You had to go Democrat or Republican. There is no middle ground.

You could technically vote independent, but that's an obvious waste. I like the fact that Bioware doesn't always allow for fence sitting.

You didn´t HAVE TO vote. Just like Hawke could have said ok, I´m leaving.

You can't have a story about a "hero" who changes thedas by abstaining... 

If Hawke just left, the entire game would've been pointless.  Decisiveness leads to change.

bold 1 - my Hawke wanted to leave.  Badly.  Ever since he got there.  Wasn't allowed to.

bold 2 - the entire game WAS pointless.  No decision in DA2 changed anything, let alone the end.

Yep, pointless, even ME3 ending made more sense.

[Archereon]

^ Let's not say anything crazy here.

That said, I'd like to have a spectrum of endings, like so


Extremely pro-mage: Templar order and circle of magi abolished, Chantry cast down, mageocratic dictatorship established, remaining chantry loyalists gradually hunted down and slaughtered. Demonic forces run rampant across Thedas as the ruling mages work profane magics in search of ever greater heights of power and self-indulgence.


Moderately Pro-Mage: Templar order and circles reformed, Chantry forced to preach more sympathetic view of mages.


Moderately Pro-Templar: Status-quo restored.


Extremely Pro-Templar: KILL THE MUTANT, BURN THE HERETIC, PURGE THE UNCLEAN!!!
Magic in general is outlawed save for a few exceptions, and the vast majority of mages are killed. Those few mages allowed to live past childhood become little more than slaves along the line of Qunari Saerebas. The Tevinter Imperium is cast down, and subject to complete genocide.

Modifié par Archereon, 23 novembre 2012 - 03:51 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Taint Master wrote...
You can't have a story about a "hero" who changes thedas by abstaining...  

If Hawke just left, the entire game would've been pointless.  Decisiveness leads to change.

Refusing to take one of the offered options is not the same as doing nothing.  If a serial killer shows up in your house and says, "I'm gong to let you pick, do I chop off your RIGHT hand or your LEFT hand" the proper answer is to shoot him in the head, not pick a hand.

Slight flaw with your argument: A torso shot is easier to hit with.

[Rawgrim]

Xilizhra wrote...

Orsino wasn't a psycho extremist; he made a bad decision at the end, but his side was definitely not extremist in that conflict. Anders could be called extremist, but not Orsino.

Missed the part where he had a part in Leanna Hawke`s murder, did you?

[PsychoBlonde]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Slight flaw with your argument: A torso shot is easier to hit with.

Depends on your field of opportunity.  But yes, in general, a body-mass shot is superior to a head shot.

[PsychoBlonde]

Rawgrim wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Orsino wasn't a psycho extremist; he made a bad decision at the end, but his side was definitely not extremist in that conflict. Anders could be called extremist, but not Orsino.

Missed the part where he had a part in Leanna Hawke`s murder, did you?

Leandra.  And this wasn't "extremism", unless you count extreme stupidity and extremely bad judgment.  Orsino even describes the research as "too extreme" more than once.  Orsino didn't strike me as aggressively anti-Templar, more as an ivory tower intellectual type without a lick of good sense and the ability to kill people with his brain.

Addendum:  Granted, this could be described as a problem with the entire Circle approach to mage control.  The LAST people you want in charge of anything explosive and/or dangerous are sheltered intellectuals with no real-world experience.

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 23 novembre 2012 - 05:14 .

[Rawgrim]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Orsino wasn't a psycho extremist; he made a bad decision at the end, but his side was definitely not extremist in that conflict. Anders could be called extremist, but not Orsino.

Missed the part where he had a part in Leanna Hawke`s murder, did you?

Leandra.  And this wasn't "extremism", unless you count extreme stupidity and extremely bad judgment.  Orsino even describes the research as "too extreme" more than once.  Orsino didn't strike me as aggressively anti-Templar, more as an ivory tower intellectual type without a lick of good sense and the ability to kill people with his brain.

Addendum:  Granted, this could be described as a problem with the entire Circle approach to mage control.  The LAST people you want in charge of anything explosive and/or dangerous are sheltered intellectuals with no real-world experience.

He aided a serial killer\\blood-mage.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Rawgrim wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Orsino wasn't a psycho extremist; he made a bad decision at the end, but his side was definitely not extremist in that conflict. Anders could be called extremist, but not Orsino.

Missed the part where he had a part in Leanna Hawke`s murder, did you?

Leandra.  And this wasn't "extremism", unless you count extreme stupidity and extremely bad judgment.  Orsino even describes the research as "too extreme" more than once.  Orsino didn't strike me as aggressively anti-Templar, more as an ivory tower intellectual type without a lick of good sense and the ability to kill people with his brain.

Addendum:  Granted, this could be described as a problem with the entire Circle approach to mage control.  The LAST people you want in charge of anything explosive and/or dangerous are sheltered intellectuals with no real-world experience.

He aided a serial killerblood-mage.

On the assumption that Meredith would come down harder if she knew he existed. The correct answer was to either take the fall, or to simply have him led into a dark alley and left facedown in it. Probably the latter, which would have occurred to him if he'd had real life experience. Edit: Or any experience of life in Thedas, anyway.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 23 novembre 2012 - 05:48 .

[Rawgrim]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Orsino wasn't a psycho extremist; he made a bad decision at the end, but his side was definitely not extremist in that conflict. Anders could be called extremist, but not Orsino.

Missed the part where he had a part in Leanna Hawke`s murder, did you?

Leandra.  And this wasn't "extremism", unless you count extreme stupidity and extremely bad judgment.  Orsino even describes the research as "too extreme" more than once.  Orsino didn't strike me as aggressively anti-Templar, more as an ivory tower intellectual type without a lick of good sense and the ability to kill people with his brain.

Addendum:  Granted, this could be described as a problem with the entire Circle approach to mage control.  The LAST people you want in charge of anything explosive and/or dangerous are sheltered intellectuals with no real-world experience.

He aided a serial killerblood-mage.

On the assumption that Meredith would come down harder if she knew he existed. The correct answer was to either take the fall, or to simply have him led into a dark alley and left facedown in it. Probably the latter, which would have occurred to him if he'd had real life experience. Edit: Or any experience of life in Thedas, anyway.

Or just hand him over to Meredith, and score some points with the templars.

[The Six Path of Pain]

Filament wrote...

Meh, Orsino was a filthy albino namekian blood mage all along-- kill it like the rest.

Impossible all the vile Albino Namekians were wiped out during the purge.

[In Exile]

PsychoBlonde wrote...
It would be really nice if the protagonist in DA3 is allowed to develop his/her own agenda rather than just taking a pre-fab one off some faction.  Agendas you pick up off other people tend to suck.

Bioware has absolutely never let you do this. They're very likely not going to start in DA3.

[Xewaka]

In Exile wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...
It would be really nice if the protagonist in DA3 is allowed to develop his/her own agenda rather than just taking a pre-fab one off some faction.  Agendas you pick up off other people tend to suck.

Bioware has absolutely never let you do this. They're very likely not going to start in DA3.

Fallout New Vegas was great.
(I know it's from Obsidian, not Bioware. I'm just sayin' it's great, because of the "feth everyone, Imma do mah thing")

Modifié par Xewaka, 23 novembre 2012 - 07:07 .

[In Exile]

Xewaka wrote...
Fallout New Vegas was great.
(I know it's from Obsidian, not Bioware. I'm just sayin' it's great, because of the "feth everyone, Imma do mah thing")

I never got the feeling I wasn't on rails in NV. But then, what I feel is on rails is not the same as what other people feel is on rails.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Rawgrim wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Leandra.  And this wasn't "extremism", unless you count extreme stupidity and extremely bad judgment.  Orsino even describes the research as "too extreme" more than once.  Orsino didn't strike me as aggressively anti-Templar, more as an ivory tower intellectual type without a lick of good sense and the ability to kill people with his brain.

Addendum:  Granted, this could be described as a problem with the entire Circle approach to mage control.  The LAST people you want in charge of anything explosive and/or dangerous are sheltered intellectuals with no real-world experience.

He aided a serial killerblood-mage.

On the assumption that Meredith would come down harder if she knew he existed. The correct answer was to either take the fall, or to simply have him led into a dark alley and left facedown in it. Probably the latter, which would have occurred to him if he'd had real life experience. Edit: Or any experience of life in Thedas, anyway.

Or just hand him over to Meredith, and score some points with the templars.

No, that was one of the options I already gave. Handing him over to Meredith would have resulted in her tightening her grip on the mages, and maybe trusting Orsino a little more.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 23 novembre 2012 - 07:21 .

[The Hierophant]

Xewaka wrote...

In Exile wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...
It would be really nice if the protagonist in DA3 is allowed to develop his/her own agenda rather than just taking a pre-fab one off some faction.  Agendas you pick up off other people tend to suck.

Bioware has absolutely never let you do this. They're very likely not going to start in DA3.

Fallout New Vegas was great.
(I know it's from Obsidian, not Bioware. I'm just sayin' it's great, because of the "feth everyone, Imma do mah thing")

Heck you can undermine the other factions by joining them sleeper agent style, before you go independent.

[Vaeliorin]

In Exile wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...
It would be really nice if the protagonist in DA3 is allowed to develop his/her own agenda rather than just taking a pre-fab one off some faction.  Agendas you pick up off other people tend to suck.

Bioware has absolutely never let you do this. They're very likely not going to start in DA3.

They have allowed this, but never in a way that is meaningful to you.  After all, I don't think Bioware had in mind my DA mage character whos agenda was to use Alistair to eventually gain control of the throne of Ferelden.  All that Darkspawn/Grey Warden stuff was just what she had to do to get in good with Alistair.

Modifié par Vaeliorin, 23 novembre 2012 - 07:31 .