28 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarielle]

Note: Hammering out a build well in advance of playing so I'm ready to hit the ground running when I get there!


So, yeah. After my SoU + HotU playthrough I want to do an NWN2 OC + MotB playthrough again. Thanks to some awesome folks here I'm having a blast with my rogue/AA in NWN1, but I gather rogues aren't so hot in NWN2. However ... I'm tired of Neeshka always hogging a spot in my party. A big part of these games for me is interacting with henchies and having them interact with each other, and needing one character aound all the time sorta kills the variety.

So...I was hoping to take rogue duties myself.

With that in mind, here's what I'm looking for.
1) Can handle locks and traps (this would mean good Disable Device and good Search at least ... I guess spells could be used for locks)
2) Has at least one conversation skill (is diplomacy best? bluff was fun as a bard), and the CHA to use it well
3) I also enjoy UMD a ton.

So. Is this doable? I don't particularly care if it doesn't have the sneaky stabby playstyle. I don't usually do casters (sorcerer could be fun, since it's CHA-based?), but that could be a nice change of pace.

I need pretty ... detailed help. Like starting stats, what feats to choose when etc. if possible, because my DnD knowledge is godawful. Bonus request:: Are there links to decent builds for companions? Mine end up useless except for conversation entertainment value, lol.

Any insight would be much appreciated!

[jackkel dragon]

1) If NWN2 follows DnD 3.5 rules as I remember them, you'll need at least one Rogue level to disable traps above DC 20. I think there's a spell for locks though. (Knock?)

2) I don't remember the NWN2 OC very well, but when it comes to conversation skills Diplomacy seems to get the most use. I'd suggest Diplomacy or Bluff, especially on a CHA build character like Sorcerer (though I think Diplomacy is cross-class, so you'd need to pick it up in the Rogue level to get the full benefit.)

3) UMD is only a class skill for Rogue, Bard, and Warlock. There's also apparently some bugs that may or may not have been fixed: http://nwn2.wikia.co...se_Magic_Device

I was going to say that what you described made me wish Artificer was a class in NWN2 (as they have 1 and 3 from your list as class features), but it appears Warlock has a similar skillset (although it fufills 2 and 3 on your list instead).

1) You'll still need to use invocations or magic items to deal with locks as a Warlock, and you'll need a level in Rogue to get the ability to disarm DC 20+ traps.

2) Warlock has access to Bluff and Intimidate.

3) Warlock gets UMD as a class skill and a class +4 bonus at level 4.

In addition, the Warlock avoids the problem of running out of combat spells that normal spellcasters have with their Eldritch Blast ability and infinite cast invocations. More info here: http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Warlock

As for detailed builds, I'm not really the one to ask for that sort of thing. I hope someone else can help you with that.

[Sarielle]

I found an arcane trickster build here: http://www.gamebansh...spoilers.86038/

What do you guys think of the sorcerer variant? No experience at all with the class, really. Seemed like it might do what I wanted ... but also seems backstab heavy, which seemed a drawback?

[PJ156]

I have little skill in such things but have played a rogue through the campaign and ended up taking equal levels of fighter as the rogery is not really needed at a very high level. If I were going to multi class to be able to use magic devices I would go with mage not sorcerer. You can have just a few spells but a wider range of choice for your slots. Also the int will boost your skill points as well as helping your spell slots.

Another option is use a human and use your extra lv I feat to take able learner. With a high int you can go any way you want with the skills and a good dex and a few levels of rogue may well give you enough rogue skills while you play a mage?

Just some thoughts, there are some very able builders out there who will advise you better I am sure.

PJ

[Sarielle]

You bring up a good point. What's the max disable device/open lock needed for the campaign + MotB? I've played MotB since the OC and I don't recall a lot of use for it there, but it's been awhile so I could be wrong.

[kevL]

I remember some really high level locks down a certain corridor in the DeathGod's vault. Played a rogue and while i tend to keep things tip-top, still needed buffs to get them open. Not sure if they could be bashed. Many have pointed out how pure rogues are not effective in the OC+MotB and I found my toon taking on the role of the Night Captina more and more, ordering the companions around and jumping in just when safe or needed ...

beyond that, idk.


ps. i think those locks in MotB approached 50

[Sarielle]

Were those locks necessary to get open, and / or have goodies that are just too amazing to pass up? It's been awhile, like I said, lol.

So you're saying your rogue didn't do so hot in combat in MotB?

EDIT: ALso, I don't remember; once traps are triggered do they go away in OC/MotB? I could always just sacrifice a summon if so, lol.

Modifié par Sarielle, 23 novembre 2012 - 11:21 .

[kevL]

no, not necessary to get open. Some goodies, i think a named weapon or two; nothing better than what I had.

rogue != elite combat trooper


yes traps go away. Lol

[Sarielle]

yes traps go away. Lol

HMMMMMM, lol. Well then. now I'm considering just using knock and playing a pragmatic sorceress or something, lol.

[kevL]

except there's a problem with the default Knock spell : if the door/chest is marked Plot (unbashable/indestructable) it simply won't work .. and yer back to picking locks ( or re-scripting the Knock spell ). Pain's CSL changes it to if-no-key-required, Okay knock away. But i say screw it, open w/ Knock as long as the no-knock flag hasn't been set.

ymmv.

[Sarielle]

I dunno what Pain's CSL is, lol. If it's a mod to make this work I'd definitely give it a look. Would this affect me in the OC/MotB or is it only an issue in PWs anyway? Appreciate all the help, by the way

EDIT: I see some builds like so for sorcerer, but nothing focusing on being a dress-wearing caster, lol. Would it be worth it to do something like this (Paladin saves look kinda tasty on a sorc ... ) if I don't want to wear heavier armor for another playthrough?

Modifié par Sarielle, 24 novembre 2012 - 01:28 .

[kevL]

It affects everything.

here's my Knock script. It should open anything that the designer explicitly hasn't spec'd as can't be knocked.


Make sure there's only one of these (nw_s0_knock.nss/.ncs) in override, etc.

... and, back to builds,

[Sarielle]

Ahah! Thank you. Will download that asap I don't like to drastically change games' mechanics but when something is just functionally stupid I certainly enjoy a good mod to fix it.

EDIT: Sooo....any good caster sorcerer builds that don't involve wearing armor? I'm having a hell of a time finding one on any of the DBs.

Modifié par Sarielle, 24 novembre 2012 - 05:19 .

[GFallen01]

Light armor is nice in the OC/MotB as you can easily get a 0% ASF chain shirt. I'd probably look at something like Sorc 9/ EK 10/ ASOC 10/ Cleric 1, CHA-based. I don't have a good example to link right now, so I'd ask here:

http://nwn2db.freefo...-build-f18.html

Modifié par GFallen01, 24 novembre 2012 - 09:44 .

[Sarielle]

Thanks! I didn't realize there were forums attached to that site! And as far as medium/heavy armor goes, I just am tired of it aesthetically. All my characters end up wearing one or the other, so I'd like to make actual robes workable for a change!

EDIT: OK, posted there too, but still looking for advice here as well. Also as I asked there -- I found some builds for OC companions, but none for MotB companions -- Safiya and Gann in particular I'd like builds for. Help there would also be super awesome.

EDIT EDIT: Ok, found Safiya build and Gann build. Any good?

EDIT EDIT: If I were to work in 2 paladin levels, where would you suggest I work them in, keeping in mind I don't want to remain lawful good for long? This one takes them early but there's not a lot of feedback on it. I haven't found a build that's quite what I want but I think I've looked at enough to at least have a decent idea of what spells to take etc.

Modifié par Sarielle, 25 novembre 2012 - 03:27 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I don't agree with the modification to the knock spell. Chests are marked Plot because it is necessary for you to resolve some plot point before opening the chest. Using Knock to open chests is going to lead to erroneous assumptions that your party has resolved something you might not have resolved. It isn't a functionally stupid thing at all and it isn't a bug. If you were developing your own campaign and decided that chests should not be used as plot devices then you just wouldn't mark them plot and knock should work.

Also, just a plug for using my own Makeovers for the OC and MotB if you are going to replay them all over again and have the SoZ expansion.

Regards

[Sarielle]

Kaldor Silverwand wrote...

I don't agree with the modification to the knock spell. Chests are marked Plot because it is necessary for you to resolve some plot point before opening the chest. Using Knock to open chests is going to lead to erroneous assumptions that your party has resolved something you might not have resolved. It isn't a functionally stupid thing at all and it isn't a bug.

I misunderstood what was implied then I think. I'm OK with "You must find the right magical key" etc. I thought there were plot-related chests that had to be lockpicked and that couldn't be opened with knock. If that's not the case then I won't download.

I am tempted by your makeovers but I've got the stuff that lets me modify item appearances downloaded so I wasn't sure if it'd conflict or not since yours makes UI changes.

[kevL]

ref.thread : Knock doesn't work on plot chests? Seriously? That makes it pointless!

Sar, that's a thread for tech's and designers. Quite a few people approach it from quite a few perspectives ... but it may give you a gist of what's going down.

While Kaldor's got a good point ( and the weight of the default on his side ), "Plot" stopped being used as just "plot" as soon as toolsetters figured out "Plot" meant "indestructable" back in 2002 -- this includes officials.


To get to the point. Those doors, eg. in MotB are marked "Plot" even though they aren't "plot", so are the chests. I believe Pain strikes a happy medium, but i went all the way because there *is* a specific flag that can be set independently of either/both the Key-required or Plot flags. And i Trust myself not to exploit a situation where "Plot" really does mean "plot" ;L


/ use it or not, i'm impartial. I really put it up to urge others to look into it,

[Sarielle]

Hmm, now I'm more confused than ever, lol. It's been long enough I'm not sure I'd recognize a chest that was supposed to really be plot related. Blergh.

So basically you're saying there are some genuine plot chests out there, but there are also locks in MotB that have nothing to do with plot, they just want you to be unable to bash them?

[kevL]

I'm trying to think of *any* door/chest (in the OC's) that is truly plot-related ...


someone help us out here

The technical problem is, What if a designer wants Knock to be a plot-mechanic? What if a designer wants a plot-mechanic that is either Knock or Key-required? But from a practical standpoint as a player, I'd open the chest and go "oh, maybe I'm not supposed to have the scroll of teleportation to the Plane of Fire yet ..." Or if it's a door i might just beat a hasty retreat: how bad can it be???

- if a designer doesn't want a lock opened by Knock, set the variable. /shrug

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Sarielle wrote...

I am tempted by your makeovers but I've got the stuff that lets me modify item appearances downloaded so I wasn't sure if it'd conflict or not since yours makes UI changes.

The thing about the Makeovers is that I instruct users to install them directly in the campaign folders (I know some people don't but that is usually because they are using some other mechanism to segregate campaigns and user content). One benefit of installing them in the campaign folders is that anything that you have installed in the override folder will continue to work.

The UI changes in the Makeover are fairly limited and the main thing is they provide the ability to get to the Party Editor at any time. That can also be done by downloading my Deck of Trumps item and using it, so the UI changes are a nicety but not really required.

Regards

Modifié par Kaldor Silverwand, 30 novembre 2012 - 06:53 .

[Sarielle]

kevL wrote...

But from a practical standpoint as a player, I'd open the chest and go "oh, maybe I'm not supposed to have the scroll of teleportation to the Plane of Fire yet ..." Or if it's a door i might just beat a hasty retreat: how bad can it be???

Heh, I guess I could just use common sense. Thanks!

Kaldor Silverwand wrote...

The UI changes in the Makeover
are fairly limited and the main thing is they provide the ability to get
to the Party Editor at any time. That can also be done by downloading
my Deck of Trumps item and using it, so the UI changes are a nicety but
not really required.

Regards

Hmm, OK. In that case I'll definitely check them out. Need to get this decided fairly soon because I've been binging and trucking through HotU.

[Arkalezth]

If you finally rely on Knock, make sure to buy a 'Chime of Opening' (I think that's its name), so that you have more casts per day. It's for sale in Neverwinter, IIRC.

[Sarielle]

Awesome, I'll look for it!

[kevL]

ah!

doors like Moire's, Axle's, the warehouse etc in Neverwinter City. Fraught with peril, best leave those alone till the railroad plot opens them.



[edit] hmm, *strokes pointy beard ..

Modifié par kevL, 01 décembre 2012 - 03:40 .