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[xsdob]

grey_wind wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I'm not following with the geth propoganda. How is what he showed you any different that what tali said in ME1? The geth gained sentience, the quarians tried to destroy them, first with a shutdown order than through physical means, and than the geth started to fight back.

Propaganda, from how I've seen the term used and not it's actual dictionary meaning, usually implies that the information is 100% falsified and is usually the opposite of what actually happened. The geth consensus didn't appear to show that, and goes along with what tali said in ME1.

Just becasue it doesn't look good for the quarians doesn't mean it's propoganda, it just means that the facts don't look good for them becasue what they did was pretty bad. Understandable from their point of view of trying to stop what could be a disaster waiting to happen and putting the needs of the many ahead of the geth sympathizers, but still messed up.

It's propaganda because it completely sweeps what the Geth did in retaliation under the rug. Legion doesn't once mention the fact that the Geth bombed Rannoch with so many biological weapons as to make it uninhabitable, nor does he bring up the fact that the Geth wiped out 99% of the Quarian population. In a nutshell, the Geth consensus mission presents a very biased and one-sided view of how the Morning War went down.

All of that was already mentioned in the previous games, your shepard should already know all of that.

All this did was give a different perspective on the conflict. Just becasue you don't like that perspective does not mean it is fake.

Besides, it's not like the quarians didn't present a twisted version of the story as well, pretending like the geth aren't alive and that killing them isn't the same as killing any other living thinking thing. Both sides do not present a fair view and make their own sides look like the victims.

Modifié par xsdob, 24 novembre 2012 - 06:48 .

[grey_wind]

xsdob wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I'm not following with the geth propoganda. How is what he showed you any different that what tali said in ME1? The geth gained sentience, the quarians tried to destroy them, first with a shutdown order than through physical means, and than the geth started to fight back.

Propaganda, from how I've seen the term used and not it's actual dictionary meaning, usually implies that the information is 100% falsified and is usually the opposite of what actually happened. The geth consensus didn't appear to show that, and goes along with what tali said in ME1.

Just becasue it doesn't look good for the quarians doesn't mean it's propoganda, it just means that the facts don't look good for them becasue what they did was pretty bad. Understandable from their point of view of trying to stop what could be a disaster waiting to happen and putting the needs of the many ahead of the geth sympathizers, but still messed up.

It's propaganda because it completely sweeps what the Geth did in retaliation under the rug. Legion doesn't once mention the fact that the Geth bombed Rannoch with so many biological weapons as to make it uninhabitable, nor does he bring up the fact that the Geth wiped out 99% of the Quarian population. In a nutshell, the Geth consensus mission presents a very biased and one-sided view of how the Morning War went down.

All of that was already mentioned in the previous games, your shepard should already know all of that.

All this did was give a different perspective on the conflict. Just becasue you don't like that perspective does not mean it is fake.

Besides, it's not like the quarians didn't present a twisted version of the story as well, pretending like the geth aren't alive and that killing them isn't the same as killing any other living thinking thing. Both sides do not present a fair view and make their own sides look like the victims.

I never said it was fake or that I didn't like it. I said it was propaganda.

The only thing that bothers me about it is Legion giving such a biased view, tbh. In ME2 he outright admits the Geth did terrible things to the Quarians in the Morning War.

[LanceSolous13]

What Legion means is that you don't know enough about what Quarians look like to properly see them as they were back then.

Say you've seen a dingle black cat with white fur on its paws and blue eyes.

You wouldn't know if all cats had the same fur markings, if all cats had tails of x length, if all cats were black, if eyes were different from cat to cat and etc. You might be able to vaguly guess at it, but it wouldn't be accurate.

Also, Shepard would have only seen Tali without clothes. He has no comprehension of what Quarian clothing would look like with exception of the full-body suits.

[LanceSolous13]

grey_wind wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I'm not following with the geth propoganda. How is what he showed you any different that what tali said in ME1? The geth gained sentience, the quarians tried to destroy them, first with a shutdown order than through physical means, and than the geth started to fight back.

Propaganda, from how I've seen the term used and not it's actual dictionary meaning, usually implies that the information is 100% falsified and is usually the opposite of what actually happened. The geth consensus didn't appear to show that, and goes along with what tali said in ME1.

Just becasue it doesn't look good for the quarians doesn't mean it's propoganda, it just means that the facts don't look good for them becasue what they did was pretty bad. Understandable from their point of view of trying to stop what could be a disaster waiting to happen and putting the needs of the many ahead of the geth sympathizers, but still messed up.

It's propaganda because it completely sweeps what the Geth did in retaliation under the rug. Legion doesn't once mention the fact that the Geth bombed Rannoch with so many biological weapons as to make it uninhabitable, nor does he bring up the fact that the Geth wiped out 99% of the Quarian population. In a nutshell, the Geth consensus mission presents a very biased and one-sided view of how the Morning War went down.

Incorrect, Legion does mention the fact that the Geth let a small amount of Quarians go.

Also, Rannoch isn't having issues because of biological weapondry but because their main way of polinating the... well,  earth was through the Quarians whose bodies transported pollon and seeds and etc, who are now absent from the ecosystem and has caused things to either evolve beyond the use of Quarians or die.

[The Spamming Troll]

probably one squiggly line across their foreheads instead of two.

[Nightwriter]

Sounds like he was just saying Tali's face doesn't match the faces on record.

I on the other hand think he was saying, "BioWare doesn't want to create an in-engine model for Tali's face and load it onto all the quarians in these cybervisions just to acknowledge that you have special romance quarian face glimpsing frequent flyer mile privileges."

[SpamBot2000]

It was another case of the old favorite, 'I chose to appear in a form that puts the least demand of effort and resources on the art department.'

But simply calling it lazy is to ignore the mad rush this game was created in.

[LanceSolous13]

I will agree, Shepard's whole 'perception of these memories' thing doesn't make sense. The logic after that of Shepard having no memories of what exactly a Quarian looks like makes sense, but what builds to that is... illogical at worst, weak at best.

[Nightwriter]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

It was another case of the old favorite, 'I chose to appear in a form that puts the least demand of effort and resources on the art department.'

But simply calling it lazy is to ignore the mad rush this game was created in.

Yeah I'll have to agree with that.

As a consumer with little to no knowledge of the development process, from my end it always seems as if you have to hold a gun to a developer's head before they'll create new models (and I mean any developers, not just BioWare). But I'm sure the truth lies with development constraints and disc space and all that. Result: every drell gets a recolor of Thane's outfit! Yay industrial limitations.

[LieutenantSarcasm]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Shepard: Legion...why do all the Quarians look like my naked girlfriend?

Legion: ...No data available.

Would have been the greatest moment in the game.

[m2iCodeJockey]

davidshooter wrote...

It's pretty silly that Quarians aren't known to everyone in the galaxy in the general sense of what they look like.

Are there no medical books detailing medical procedures and physiology?
No merc ever pulled the helmet off a Quarian he killed in combat and took a picture?
Quarians don't ever take pictures of themselves in a sterile enviroment to give to each other?
etc. etc. etc.

It came up that Quarians were known for being attractive. Somewhere, it's mentioned that Fornax pays for rare shoots...

[VirtualSoldier27]

Kaos_Scorpio wrote...

I think he means "I don't know why then" in Geth.

no, it means "We are passing up yet another oppertunity to show a fan favorites real face,becuase we dont deem it nessecary" in Bioware

[JBPBRC]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Because if your memories of Tali with her suit off got mapped onto this history lesson it would be awkward for everyone involved.

This. I'd rather see helmeted Quarians than a bunch of photoshopped stock photo face Quarians.

[SimKoning]

Budgetary constraints glossed over with handwaving.

[LiivaTelnea]

The Geth were the ones who took the first shot, however they knew that their destruction would come soon.

Their "Self Preservation" protocol does only allow a one-for-one system.
The Geth had to forge up faked recordings that show the Creators starting a full-scaled war on all of them.
Then they shared it trough a local "Broadcasted Archive" to all active units.

Doing so gave the Geth premission to commit a returning strike, after that it was officialy a war and no restrictions applied.

The theory about "Geth Supportives" was also forged, since there would have been no moral point in this fight, units of a later version may come to the conclusion that it is the prefferable decision to "Reunite with the Gods".
Due to that, they made up that we killed our own people just to justify that we're monsters, devils that are to be purged from the galaxy.

If those are really "Recordings" does not the word recording mean actually capturing a moment ?
We can make movies about people with different faces, we managed to do so all the way back in 2000 and even before that, now you tell me that I have to know who a person is so I see them on camera ?

I am here, speaking on behalf of my species.
RESIST THE PROPAGANDA, DENY THE LIES  OF THE ARCHIVE AND MAINLY, RESIST THE DEVIL MACHINE !

"The created will allways rebell aginst their creators."
And only now do I understand the full meaning of that.

[In Exile]

LiivaTelnea wrote...

The Geth were the ones who took the first shot, however they knew that their destruction would come soon.

No, they didn't. Tali confirms in ME1 that they didn't.

[Lieber]

In Exile wrote...

LiivaTelnea wrote...

The Geth were the ones who took the first shot, however they knew that their destruction would come soon.

No, they didn't. Tali confirms in ME1 that they didn't.

Tali was raised by a one-sided view of the conflict. It's like the American Revolution to be honest.

[Nerevar-as]

Lieber wrote...

In Exile wrote...

LiivaTelnea wrote...

The Geth were the ones who took the first shot, however they knew that their destruction would come soon.

No, they didn't. Tali confirms in ME1 that they didn't.

Tali was raised by a one-sided view of the conflict. It's like the American Revolution to be honest.

When the ones that lost the war say they were the ones starting it, I think we can trust the information.