514 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

Time to play Sarcastaball

[KotorEffect3]

+1 for the OP and for the good guys.

[TheRealJayDee]

KotorEffect3

One more step towards this thread's destiny...!

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

+1 for the OP and for the good guys.

lmao "the good guys"

Also according to your sig -1 from "the good guys" as well

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:24 .

[KwangtungTiger]

How ol ninja stan hasn't come by to close this thread is beyond me? I mean the title alone is enough to insight rage and disdain. Like it or hate it doesnt really matter. Let it go people

[2484Stryker]

I didn't think the starkid came out of nowhere. I just hate that Shepard, knowing him to be the creator of the indoctrinating Reapers, still chose to trust the starkid. And yes, in choosing any of the choices presented by the starkid, Shepard is choosing to trust his logic (aside from refuse, which I thought was handled poorly).

But what else could he have done, you ask? Well that's asking me to find an alternative in-universe, while I'm making an out-of-universe criticism, i.e. on the writing. The writers never should have written themselves into a corner by making Shepard choosing from the choices given to him from Starkid.

I also didn't appreciate the way our war assets played out - i.e. in a totally underwhelming fashion.

Aside from that, I didn't mind Shepard dying or sacrificing the Geth or Edi. I just thought their sacrifice was quite trivial and nonsensical.

[Suspire]

ohgods Seival is here

[TrollBerzerker01]

The extended cut ending tied up all the plot holes, the current ending is now serviceable.

The only problem with the ending now is the Green and Blue endings. The Green doesn't fit the tone Mass Effect had been establishing, it's a bit too "magic" for my tastes. The Blue ending is a little better but the idea of Shepard merging with the Reaper AI still strikes me as a little too fantastic for this series.

Which leaves Red, which is totally fine the way they set it up. It's also the worst ending, which is unfortunate.

[Maxster_]

TrollBerzerker01 wrote...

The extended cut ending tied up all the plot holes, the current ending is now serviceable.
...

Stopped reading after this obviously false statement.

[Dr_Extrem]

TrollBerzerker01 wrote...

The extended cut ending tied up all the plot holes, the current ending is now serviceable.

The only problem with the ending now is the Green and Blue endings. The Green doesn't fit the tone Mass Effect had been establishing, it's a bit too "magic" for my tastes. The Blue ending is a little better but the idea of Shepard merging with the Reaper AI still strikes me as a little too fantastic for this series.

Which leaves Red, which is totally fine the way they set it up. It's also the worst ending, which is unfortunate.

just an example.

if shepard would have had the chance to "like" the idea to control the reapers, then there would be one less plot hole.

shepard fights cerberus, tim and its ideas over the course of the entre game. only at one point, shepard could ask hackett, if tim could be right (about control) and after that, it is not mentioned anymore - hackett talks sense into shep at that point. even after that, shepard is against controling the reapers - there is no chance to express the will to control them. 

if shepard chooses control unter these conditions, shep generates a plot hole, because the protagonist is out of character.

if bioware would have implemented the option, for shepard to go for control, there would have been no problem - that is missing.

the ec enriches the ending with plot holes tbh. the normandy evac is an example. the normandy can reach london within apr. 5-6 seconds, despite the fact, that they are in high orbit, fighting the reaper fleet.

[MattFini]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating.

I think a good deal of ending criticism comes from the way in which everything about the StarKid is presented.

Had it been re-worked so that Shepard meets StarChild, and the AI wanted NOTHING to do with him, it would've been better.

What I mean by this is that StarChild wants to go on Reaping. Shepard isn't going to let that happen and somehow figures out that the Crucible has three possible options. He does this AGAINST the StarChild's wishes, not working in tandem with them.

Making a choice when the Reaper king is telling you to stop, and choosing one of them IN SPITE of the SpaceChild would've felt like more of a victory.

It wouldn't be a passive ending because Shepard wouldn't be siding with the AI to solve a pretentious problem. He'd be making a choice to stop the Reapers outright.

And while, sure, there'd still be criticisms of space magic and the like, I still believe it would feel more like victory. And it would've sat better with some fans.

Modifié par MattFini, 28 novembre 2012 - 07:22 .

[Tomwew]

txgoldrush wrote...

Tomwew wrote...

can someone post a list of every problem, plot hole, out of character action and theme ignoring/ changing in the last part of me3 to see if the op, who apparently understands the ending and i'm simply too dumb to get it, can answer them all?

i'll give my top 5 reasons i think the ending sucks harder than gay superman.
1. the catalyst says no organic has ever been to his digs on the bottom of the citadel. then how could anyone have designed the crucible to interface with it.

2. the catalyst admits it's solution doesn't work. why does it continue to reap?

3. why can't i argue against the (racist......robocist?) idea that syntetics will always rebel?

4. the catalyst tries to force the reapers into being 'good' guys by implying that he's not killing but 'ascending' people...... while taking the form of a young child he murdered as the boy attempted to flee. why can't i point this out.

5. the entire section with the catalyst feels hopeless and though there's no choice, as if i'm a player in the catalyst's game.
this feeling is strongest in th ec where, in one of the only dialogue choices where shep gets his backbone...er...back, he tells the catalyst he 'doesn't believe him' to which the catalyst replies, with the blunt abruptness of an annoyed parent talking to an overly inquisitive child, 'your belief is not required.'
no question there that line just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. i guess being space jesus in inconsequntial when talking to space god (deus) from the machine (ex machina)

these are only five, i could go on.....for a long time but i feel as though there are more qualified types out there to list what's wrong with this franken-ending.

like mr. btoungue
extended cut

1. Catalyst never said anything about Shepard being the first organic to stand in that area.....Catalyst could also be referencing the situation at hand or the first organic to meet him. Not clear enough to claim plot holes. Plot holes have to be clear.

2. Because his ideal solution was not enacted and he cannot make them work, no plot hole here. Looks like your Deus Ex Machina doesn't have power, hence its subverted.

3. Synthetics do always rebel in the lore.....every example the series gives to you, synthetics rebel...but sometimes for GOOD reasons. He never casts blame on the synthetics, notice this. He never paints them as the bad guys.

Did you also hear why the Catalyst was created?....because the races under the Leviathans kept getting destroyed by their own AI's. Its all in the narrative.

4. Shepard does argue that this methods are wrong, that is clear. He is never cast as a good guy...its the player to decide.

5. And really you are. The Catalyst created the cycle to experiment with evolution in order for him to find the ideal solution, which is Shepard. But you can reject him...thats what destroy does, Once again, destroy is the rejection of the Catalyst.

thanks for the reply friend, wasn't expecting it.

1. he does say you're the first organic to stand there, check youtube, my question still stands.

2. he recognizes the reapers don't work, while we are talking to him why are they still fighting and reaping? if he has no power how did he create the first reaper? how come shep-catalyst has absolute power over reapers? the catalyst says control replaces him with shep.
the leviathans didn't want to be reapers, harbinger is the leviathans and seems pretty happy with his lot. this leads me to the logical conclusion that the catalyst can indoctrinate so if it really has a hard on for synthesis why not indoctrinate an organic to jump into the beam?

3. in the lore (without reaper influence) synthetics have only been seen to rebel for the same reason an organic civilisation would. opression and the threat of genocide, hell the rachni were doing a better job wiping out organic life in the galaxy than any synthetic we've seen.

also he clearly states that the reason he reaps is that synthetics will eventually destroy ALL life in the galaxy. he bases this on nothing and it clearly paints synthetics as dangerous and without the ability to live in peace with organics, which is false.

4 + 5. but if we decide the catalyst is the bad guy and we don't believe his particularly stinking brand of bull plop the galaxy we know is destroyed. following the paragon route of overcoming adversity through diversity, never giving up, refusing to co-operate with the enemy or use enemy tech and never sacrificing one's morals is met with insta-death for the galaxy and the next cycle uses the crucible anyway.
 
my point was this is an unbelievably unsatisfying and out of place scene where your choices and beliefs are rendered irrelevent, 'your belief is not required.' you either do what king reaper lets you do or the galaxy dies. weak sauce.

if you liked the ending that's cool but these are just five points that burned my bacon and marred my enjoyment of the game. we can agree to disagree but my points are valid, for me, and many others.

Modifié par Tomwew, 28 novembre 2012 - 08:08 .

[Yesmar]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

+1 for the OP and for the good guys.

lmao "the good guys"

Also according to your sig -1 from "the good guys" as well

I didn't know we were the bads guys.
What makes us the bad guys? Maybe it's because I would give the guy that stole his xbox a high-five.

[Gavrilo]

 Why Skynet launch nukes and start war with rest of humanity in 1997:D? Crazy machines,right?
Thats all magic they just start it,no brainer there,they are machine,they do thing they do and theres no sense in explanation for that at least for "organics".It should stay that way,i dont need some HologramChild to justify why Reaper want to destroy us and repeat their cycle over and over again.I dont care,they kill billions of lives and you can multiply that with billion again...why should i care why they do that:unsure:.
Tell me whats stupid and fake in that?

anyway im also tired of all topic about ending,i know nothing can convince me that ending is good,also its cheap,but when i recall how confused and depressed i was after finishing KOTOR2,ME3 wasnt shocking at all,theres only regret coz ME could be perfect game to me,instead i have bitter taste of it:sick:
but theres always ME1 that game is perfect,ME2 is good but i dont like rpg elements in it,everything else is top

[Bourne Endeavor]

Ah, txgoldrush. One day maybe you will learn what a Deus ex Machina actually is. Certainly will not be holding my breath but hey, it could happen.