514 réponses à ce sujet

[Xellith]

The OP has so many flaws in his argument that I gave up trying to correct in a response and just decided to write this instead. Maybe Ill write an actual reply but that would take a long ass time.

Modifié par Xellith, 24 novembre 2012 - 04:25 .

[Kawamura]

"If you don't agree with my interpretation then you were certainly not paying attention and that's the only reason why you wouldn't agree."

oh, okay

[Dr_Extrem]

this thread is still open?

[Kais Endac]

 Just because some people find something to criticize about the endings does not make them "false" they have
their beliefs and you have yours neither opinion is more important. 

This is what I think.... 

I believe that the presence of a catalyst does not come out of nowhere (since Liara mentions it on the citadel) but the character itself does there is little reason to believe the catalyst is an AI before the final act of the game. 

My belief is that the original endings offered little closure making people reliant on their imagination to what happens after (and personally I didn't pay for the game to imagine my own ending when I could have done that
without purchasing it). While the EC added some closure to all the endings( in terms of galactic development). However Shepard's final fate is left up in the air in destroy, which means he will probably be dead or missing should the next game be a sequel.  

Some themes of the game have defiantly changed from ME1->ME2->ME3 with changes in writing part of the cause.    

The crucible seems a bit out of place but realistically could be explained should the dev's decide in future dlc 

One problem I have is the whole Synthetics kill organics -- to  save the organics from -- other synthetics
being created and killing the organics. Seems a bit ridiculous to me maybe the AI is stuck in a loop or something <_<.

As for the whole everything was fixed in the EC I personally don't believe that is true. There is a lack of closure, the EC was incredibly general, companion fates were shown in a slideshow that actually showed nothing, and the impact of some of your (more important) choices is not shown. The development of the galaxy is very simplistic considering they went with a slideshow would it have hurt to make it somewhat like the one in DAO and added details to each slide. I suppose this might have been intended either to allow people to imagine the future or to allow room for a sequel.

I don't hate the endings but neither do I like them I think they are inadequate for a trilogy the size of Mass effect. And I do understand the themes of the ending and I actually think what they were trying to accomplish was a good, it just wasn't implemented as fully as it could have been. But that doesn't make my criticisms of the ending "false" neither does it invalidate anyone else’s opinion. 

As long as a person doesn’t go off and shout abuse at other people especially the developer I think they are entitled to their opinion and to share it. Those that share their opinions with an explanation usually provide good reasons and both pro-enders and anti-enders usually come up with solid arguments both for and against which can be very interesting to read.


I apologise if I have insulted anyone I just wanted to share my opinion and I may have got carried away.  

Modifié par Kais Endac, 24 novembre 2012 - 04:43 .

[Mathias]

[SpamBot2000]

AlanC9 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

What spirit would that be?

The spirit of piling up kindling and pouring on gasoline. It's hard to miss once you get past the notions of 'They wouldn't do this deliberately! Must look for obscure meaning...'

Meaning that they were trying to blow up the ME iuniverse by any means necessary? Really?

Yes, really. And to clarify a bit, 'they' mean Hudson and Walters here, not all of BioWare. That's why they sneaked it in behind the backs of the writers. They were well aware of what they were doing. 

What's the alternative here? That they didn't mean to end the franchise then and there, and were surprised that making every living thing in the universe a cyborg at the DNA level would pose some obstacles to continuing the story? That's just assuming Hudson is a freaking idiot, pure and simple. Which I for one don't.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 24 novembre 2012 - 04:44 .

[Isichar]

I respectfully disagree OP. Seems like your bending over just as much to defend the endings as some people are to bash them. You dont introduce a new major character at the end of the story, and to say he was properly foreshadowed is nothing short of denial as far as Im concerned. Necron in FF9 had more foreshadowing then the Catalyst did and his appearance was a disaster too.

[Morty Smith]

How much to cross your bridge, OP?

[Xellith]

If Bioware wanted to make the best ending then they would have had ALL HANDS ON DECK and not just 2 people.... at least thats my interpretation >.>

[WhiteKnyght]

txgoldrush wrote...

....seriously....fans still do not get the final ending. Nevermind all the FALSE criticism of the ending....like...

Da Spaceboy comes out of nowhere.....

No he doesn't, you basically ignored the foreshadowing earlier in the story, like on Thessia, where Vendetta states that their maybe a master, with Shepard even asking "Who is the master?" Or the Reaper on Rannoch foreshadowing the motives of the Reapers before he dies. Or the fact that the plot was about FINDING THE CATALYST...but nope, this dense fake criticism continues.

Its a Deus Ex Machina.....

Nope, its not. In fact, its a subversion of the trope. The fact is that Shepard is the contrived solution to THE CATALYST'S PROBLEM. Yeah, its backwards, a classic use of the trope turned on its head, where the supposed God From the Machine needs the protagonist to help him. Nevermind the fact that Shepard acted on the Catalyst before you meet him, by connecting the Crucible to the Citadel, and by him saying "you have altered the variables".

The Crucible isn;t either, its implimented in the logic of the story, and introduced logically by the logical character. Nevermind, going back to ME1, how the Protheans data and actions helped the current cycle. The Crucible follows that same path.

But it clashes with the series themes...

Nope, you were not paying attention. The final EC ending impliments all the major themes. Ending things on your terms is NOT one of them. In fact, you rarely do this throughout the series in a major way. there was always sacrifice, or more to the story, or a hollow victory. For Destroy, whine all you want about having to sacrifice synthetics but plainly, it fits the theme of the series. Remember Garrus talking about the "ruthless calculus of war"...well there you go. Control....Shepard was never  truly against controlling the Reapers, he was against TIM's methods and barbarism, while viewing him correctly as indoctrinated. Hell, Shepard can even ask Hackett "What if TIM is right?". There is no full betrayal here and no betrayal of themes. Synthesis goes back to ME1 with Saren's views. Did you miss that?

Nevermind the ending deals with main themes of the series like using others as tools without regards to the consquences, sacrifice, and even overcoming all odds....What ar ethe odds of Shepard even talking with the Catalyst and giving it a new solution.

The motive of the Catalyst is stupid....

Or not. He explains that there is no other option, through his EXPERIENCE in dealing with the conflict. Nevermind the cycle, is NOT his ideal solution. And fans simply ignore Mass Effect 2 Overlord....don't. it fits right in with the Catalyst's problem.

But it clashes with the series lore and has plot holes....

Originally, yes, but now it doesn't. The Catalyst simply has the highest lore authority here, you are simply too biased or ignorant to recognize this. ME3 even shows that Prothean VI's can be wrong, like Vendetta was about the Catalyst. Nevermind Vigil was wrong about Reapers wiping all traces of their existance. Derelict Reaper anyone, Leviathan of Dis? Prothean VI's and even Reapers have limited knowledge...the Catalyst and Leviathan has far more knowledge and far more authority on the lore...deal with it. Its not contradiction, its overrule.

If you cannot get that the Catalyst created the conditions so that a Shepard could rise and "solve" his problem, you didn't get the ending...the final canonical ending.

So what was the REAL problems with the ending?

Lack of closure, lack of clarity, underdeveloped Catalyst dialogue and an underdeveloped Catalyst, and lack of ending variations and consquences....all fixed with the extended cut. Everything else is fake criticisms, or basically the fact that A) You don't like it or You don't get it.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its flawed.

Wow, finally someone else gets it. I've been saying stuff like this the entire time.

One thing though, Extended Cut didn't need to exist to fix anything. Most of the stuff you had explained I already knew before it came out. All EC did was validate my claims and logical conclusions on the future.

There's other details I'd like to throw in as well.

People say that the Catalyst looking like the little boy is a sign that Shepard is indoctrinated(the ghostly hallucinatons symptom,) but the simple truth is that there were times when the Reapers had access to Shepard's memories.

1. The Geth Server. If you did it, Shepard's mind was interfaced with a virtual reality where, as Legion says, he makes sense of their world and visualizes their memories using his own, meaning the computer had access to the part of his brain that stores memories. And let's not forget that server was full of Reaper code. Anything that happened in there, they knew about.

2. The Illusive Man used the domination power the Reapers had endowed him with to seize control of Shepard's motor functions. Which means he could access his memories as well, and his Reaper masters besides that.

3. The Reapers were THERE on Earth when Shepard watched the boy die. There is little going on that they aren't aware of in their surroundings(you cant sneak around because their sensors are likely top notch.) They probably observed his reaction.

The reason he chose the child's form is probably because he knew Shepard would respond to it in a more friendly manner. If he appeared to Shepard looking like a cuttlefish he'd probably blow him off.

They also say that Harbinger shouts "Serve us"  before he blasts Shepard in extended cut. That's no more than a screeching noise. The trailer for the Retaliation pack proved that when Bioware wants Harbinger to speak, Keith Szarabajka is easy to get ahold off. All Reapers are capable of projecting an easily understandable voice.

[KingZayd]

I had to go digging a few months back to find these from an old post I made. These were some of my problems with the Starchild, when looking at ME1. They are from before the EC but I believe they still apply:

1) Why does the Catalyst (of whom the Citadel is part of) need a reaper that it controls to stay behind and tell it when the Harvest is ready [the organic races are on the Citadel (part of the Catalyst)], so that it can send a signal to the Keepers so that they can open the Citadel relay (part of the Catalyst)?

2) How do the Protheans sneak onto the Citadel (part of the Catalyst) and change it without alerting the Catalyst? When the Citadel receives Sovereign's signal, and the keepers aren't activated, why doesn't it let Sovereign know what's going on? Why hasn't the Catalyst made the other reapers it controls who can enter the Milky Way using FTL drives, do so in all that time?

3) Why does the Citadel (part of the catalyst) have a master control console that organics can use, but that neither the Reapers nor the Starchild can? (remotely or otherwise)?

[KingZayd]

Aiyie wrote...

hukbum wrote...

Aiyie wrote...

so... it doesn't matter if the geth started the war or not... all that mattered to the catalyst was the result of that war.

and, as i said, without Shepard's influence, that war would have resulted in the quarians being wiped out.

Hmm ... without Sheps influence the Geth would have been wiped out ... and to top it the quarians would have been wiped out with Reaper (Catalyst) influence. Funny, isn't it?

i still don't see where people get that the geth would have lost the second morning war.  all evidence presented in the trilogy says otherwise... even without reaper influence.

the geth simply had the superior force and position, unless we're putting all our evidence on something as irrational as hope and organic will to survive.

The Geth were being crushed before they got help from the Reapers.

Surprise attack + the new strategy that proved really effective against the Geth.

[MegaSovereign]

I think the right to self-determination has a lot to do with the theme of organic vs synthetics.

[The Spamming Troll]

Xellith wrote...

The OP has so many flaws in his argument that I gave up trying to correct in a response and just decided to write this instead. Maybe Ill write an actual reply but that would take a long ass time.

i was wondering why this topic was 6 pages long, that must be why.

[The Spamming Troll]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

....seriously....fans still do not get the final ending. Nevermind all the FALSE criticism of the ending....like...

Da Spaceboy comes out of nowhere.....

No he doesn't, you basically ignored the foreshadowing earlier in the story, like on Thessia, where Vendetta states that their maybe a master, with Shepard even asking "Who is the master?" Or the Reaper on Rannoch foreshadowing the motives of the Reapers before he dies. Or the fact that the plot was about FINDING THE CATALYST...but nope, this dense fake criticism continues.

Its a Deus Ex Machina.....

Nope, its not. In fact, its a subversion of the trope. The fact is that Shepard is the contrived solution to THE CATALYST'S PROBLEM. Yeah, its backwards, a classic use of the trope turned on its head, where the supposed God From the Machine needs the protagonist to help him. Nevermind the fact that Shepard acted on the Catalyst before you meet him, by connecting the Crucible to the Citadel, and by him saying "you have altered the variables".

The Crucible isn;t either, its implimented in the logic of the story, and introduced logically by the logical character. Nevermind, going back to ME1, how the Protheans data and actions helped the current cycle. The Crucible follows that same path.

But it clashes with the series themes...

Nope, you were not paying attention. The final EC ending impliments all the major themes. Ending things on your terms is NOT one of them. In fact, you rarely do this throughout the series in a major way. there was always sacrifice, or more to the story, or a hollow victory. For Destroy, whine all you want about having to sacrifice synthetics but plainly, it fits the theme of the series. Remember Garrus talking about the "ruthless calculus of war"...well there you go. Control....Shepard was never  truly against controlling the Reapers, he was against TIM's methods and barbarism, while viewing him correctly as indoctrinated. Hell, Shepard can even ask Hackett "What if TIM is right?". There is no full betrayal here and no betrayal of themes. Synthesis goes back to ME1 with Saren's views. Did you miss that?

Nevermind the ending deals with main themes of the series like using others as tools without regards to the consquences, sacrifice, and even overcoming all odds....What ar ethe odds of Shepard even talking with the Catalyst and giving it a new solution.

The motive of the Catalyst is stupid....

Or not. He explains that there is no other option, through his EXPERIENCE in dealing with the conflict. Nevermind the cycle, is NOT his ideal solution. And fans simply ignore Mass Effect 2 Overlord....don't. it fits right in with the Catalyst's problem.

But it clashes with the series lore and has plot holes....

Originally, yes, but now it doesn't. The Catalyst simply has the highest lore authority here, you are simply too biased or ignorant to recognize this. ME3 even shows that Prothean VI's can be wrong, like Vendetta was about the Catalyst. Nevermind Vigil was wrong about Reapers wiping all traces of their existance. Derelict Reaper anyone, Leviathan of Dis? Prothean VI's and even Reapers have limited knowledge...the Catalyst and Leviathan has far more knowledge and far more authority on the lore...deal with it. Its not contradiction, its overrule.

If you cannot get that the Catalyst created the conditions so that a Shepard could rise and "solve" his problem, you didn't get the ending...the final canonical ending.

So what was the REAL problems with the ending?

Lack of closure, lack of clarity, underdeveloped Catalyst dialogue and an underdeveloped Catalyst, and lack of ending variations and consquences....all fixed with the extended cut. Everything else is fake criticisms, or basically the fact that A) You don't like it or You don't get it.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its flawed.

Wow, finally someone else gets it. I've been saying stuff like this the entire time.

One thing though, Extended Cut didn't need to exist to fix anything. Most of the stuff you had explained I already knew before it came out. All EC did was validate my claims and logical conclusions on the future.

There's other details I'd like to throw in as well.

People say that the Catalyst looking like the little boy is a sign that Shepard is indoctrinated(the ghostly hallucinatons symptom,) but the simple truth is that there were times when the Reapers had access to Shepard's memories.

1. The Geth Server. If you did it, Shepard's mind was interfaced with a virtual reality where, as Legion says, he makes sense of their world and visualizes their memories using his own, meaning the computer had access to the part of his brain that stores memories. And let's not forget that server was full of Reaper code. Anything that happened in there, they knew about.

2. The Illusive Man used the domination power the Reapers had endowed him with to seize control of Shepard's motor functions. Which means he could access his memories as well, and his Reaper masters besides that.

3. The Reapers were THERE on Earth when Shepard watched the boy die. There is little going on that they aren't aware of in their surroundings(you cant sneak around because their sensors are likely top notch.) They probably observed his reaction.

The reason he chose the child's form is probably because he knew Shepard would respond to it in a more friendly manner. If he appeared to Shepard looking like a cuttlefish he'd probably blow him off.

They also say that Harbinger shouts "Serve us"  before he blasts Shepard in extended cut. That's no more than a screeching noise. The trailer for the Retaliation pack proved that when Bioware wants Harbinger to speak, Keith Szarabajka is easy to get ahold off. All Reapers are capable of projecting an easily understandable voice.

everything ive quoted here, no one should be able to agree with. this is the weakest and most foolish argument i could imagine being put together about the ending.

but one question: why didnt the reapers read shepards memories about buidling the crucible?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 24 novembre 2012 - 05:18 .

[Bob Garbage]

The first mistake in critiquing ME3, is to say it is only the ending that is the problem. I know Bioware likes to say it's a 'minority' that is pissed off about what they did with ME3, but they would not have made the EC to satisfy a "minority". The MAJORITY of Mass Effect fans who have been playing for YEARS had problems. I don't care to write a novel explaining the reasons why as there are great blogs, vids and posts all over the internet at this point. That is why 8-9 months later we still hear about it. The majority is not wrong. A million people didn't feel the exact same way about a game for no reason at all, and I think to make an argument that assumes they did just hate it for no reason or a misunderstanding is too silly to respond further to. OP, you're nuts.

[WhiteKnyght]

KingZayd wrote...

I had to go digging a few months back to find these from an old post I made. These were some of my problems with the Starchild, when looking at ME1. They are from before the EC but I believe they still apply:

1) Why does the Catalyst (of whom the Citadel is part of) need a reaper that it controls to stay behind and tell it when the Harvest is ready [the organic races are on the Citadel (part of the Catalyst)], so that it can send a signal to the Keepers so that they can open the Citadel relay (part of the Catalyst)?

2) How do the Protheans sneak onto the Citadel (part of the Catalyst) and change it without alerting the Catalyst? When the Citadel receives Sovereign's signal, and the keepers aren't activated, why doesn't it let Sovereign know what's going on? Why hasn't the Catalyst made the other reapers it controls who can enter the Milky Way using FTL drives, do so in all that time?

3) Why does the Citadel (part of the catalyst) have a master control console that organics can use, but that neither the Reapers nor the Starchild can? (remotely or otherwise)?

I believe I can shed some light on that.

1. I believe the Citadel is a Leviathan construct, not Reaper tech(If you notice, Leviathan only credits the Catalyst for creating the Relays. It makes no mention of the Citadel.) The Citadel is to the Catalyst what the Normandy is to EDI. Leviathan implies that the Catalyst is shackled to its purpose(simply put, it cant directly control the Citadel) and thus the Keepers were created as a workaround since he cant unshackle himself.

2. The Reapers hibernate between cycles(they likely awaken when they reach the calculated point where civilizations become advanced, then begin study.) It's probable that the Catalyst does too. Which is why they go to Dark Space in the first place. Because they can be destroyed while they sleep, they're unaware during that period.

3. I wouldn't call the terminal used to access the arm controls a master control console. But if such a thing existed, it was probably a Leviathan construct meant for the Citadel's administrator.

[Si-Shen]

The biggest issue I see is this thread and the OP's mind set. The subject " Stupid fake criticisms of the ending" says it all. Apparently if I don't agree with the OP (which I don't) my criticisms are all fake or incorrect. I won't debate or even try to argue my point of view, as according to the subject I am "faking it". I think the OP (and many people on both sides) need to remember we have very different opinions on everything and to declare someones opinion fake or how they took meaning from points in the game/series is wrong.

Personally if you arn't willing to properly debate (which means you truely invest in the debate), don't bash others for opinions that differ from yours.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlanC9 wrote...

Aiyie wrote...
awhile back, when everything first came out, i was talking with a buddy about this... there is a possibility.

remember the reaper IFF from ME2?  well, it was still on the Normandy.  the Reapers would have still needed to use the relays, so they couldn't just shut them off, just activated something that only allowed them to use the network.

that IFF would have been the solution.

So only Normandy can fly around the relay network, right? Or can the IFF be duplicated? (ME3 established the latter, but that wouldn't necessarily be true in a rewrite.)

Just for your future reference, it was actually ME2 that established it. In the Shepard Dies-Kept Base ending, you get a cutscene of Joker talking to TIM... and of Cerberus ships passing the Omega Relay and approaching the Collector Base.

This was further confirmed in the comics, but I understand not wanting to rely on side material.

[TheRealJayDee]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

3. The Reapers were THERE on Earth when Shepard watched the boy die. There is little going on that they aren't aware of in their surroundings(you cant sneak around because their sensors are likely top notch.) They probably observed his reaction.

Except for Shep being alive after Harbinger's blast. Or, idk, the Normandy evacuating people directly in front of Harbinger.

The Grey Nayr wrote...

The reason he chose the child's form is probably because he knew Shepard would respond to it in a more friendly manner. If he appeared to Shepard looking like a cuttlefish he'd probably blow him off.

Sadly we aren't given much say in how Shep reacts to it. Using the kid appearance is so obviously manipulative and reeking of Reaper deception that none of my Shepards would respond to it any more positively than to a straight Harbinger appearence.

[m2iCodeJockey]

txgoldrush wrote...
...The motive of the Catalyst is stupid....
Or not. He explains that there is no other option, through his EXPERIENCE...

If you want to speak from the perspective of all DLC:
The Levi experienced >>1<< uprising and created Ghostie in response.
Ghostie's immediate solution was to kill the Levi becoming the problem that was not yet proven to exist.

Given the directive was "preserve life at any cost," it makes no sense to select any life to destroy in favor of any other life except that the most advanced, civilized life has a high probability of surviving the one thing most dangerous to galactic life as a whole:
A galactic natural disaster.

To name one, Ghostie's continued operation would virtually guarantee no species, including the Reapers, would develop the technology to escape the collision of the Milky Way with Andromeda, performing the inverse of the directive.

Yes, Ghostie is more shortsighted than a child.
Before Ghostie killed the Levi, it had NO EXPERIENCE.

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 24 novembre 2012 - 05:59 .

[HiddenInWar]

Its sort of weird how pro and anti enders have diverged into sort of their own coalitions.

Modifié par HiddenInWar, 24 novembre 2012 - 06:07 .

[Twinzam.V]

Im surprised pro enders trying to keep this matter afloat!

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

I had to go digging a few months back to find these from an old post I made. These were some of my problems with the Starchild, when looking at ME1. They are from before the EC but I believe they still apply:

1) Why does the Catalyst (of whom the Citadel is part of) need a reaper that it controls to stay behind and tell it when the Harvest is ready [the organic races are on the Citadel (part of the Catalyst)], so that it can send a signal to the Keepers so that they can open the Citadel relay (part of the Catalyst)?

2) How do the Protheans sneak onto the Citadel (part of the Catalyst) and change it without alerting the Catalyst? When the Citadel receives Sovereign's signal, and the keepers aren't activated, why doesn't it let Sovereign know what's going on? Why hasn't the Catalyst made the other reapers it controls who can enter the Milky Way using FTL drives, do so in all that time?

3) Why does the Citadel (part of the catalyst) have a master control console that organics can use, but that neither the Reapers nor the Starchild can? (remotely or otherwise)?

I believe I can shed some light on that.

1. I believe the Citadel is a Leviathan construct, not Reaper tech(If you notice, Leviathan only credits the Catalyst for creating the Relays. It makes no mention of the Citadel.) The Citadel is to the Catalyst what the Normandy is to EDI. Leviathan implies that the Catalyst is shackled to its purpose(simply put, it cant directly control the Citadel) and thus the Keepers were created as a workaround since he cant unshackle himself.

2. The Reapers hibernate between cycles(they likely awaken when they reach the calculated point where civilizations become advanced, then begin study.) It's probable that the Catalyst does too. Which is why they go to Dark Space in the first place. Because they can be destroyed while they sleep, they're unaware during that period.

3. I wouldn't call the terminal used to access the arm controls a master control console. But if such a thing existed, it was probably a Leviathan construct meant for the Citadel's administrator.

So...your answer is head canon?

[AlexZebol]

txgoldrush wrote...

....seriously....fans still do not get the final ending. Nevermind all the FALSE criticism of the ending....like...

Da Spaceboy comes out of nowhere.....

No he doesn't, you basically ignored the foreshadowing earlier in the story, like on Thessia, where Vendetta states that their maybe a master, with Shepard even asking "Who is the master?" Or the Reaper on Rannoch foreshadowing the motives of the Reapers before he dies. Or the fact that the plot was about FINDING THE CATALYST...but nope, this dense fake criticism continues.

Its a Deus Ex Machina.....

Nope, its not. In fact, its a subversion of the trope. The fact is that Shepard is the contrived solution to THE CATALYST'S PROBLEM. Yeah, its backwards, a classic use of the trope turned on its head, where the supposed God From the Machine needs the protagonist to help him. Nevermind the fact that Shepard acted on the Catalyst before you meet him, by connecting the Crucible to the Citadel, and by him saying "you have altered the variables".

The Crucible isn;t either, its implimented in the logic of the story, and introduced logically by the logical character. Nevermind, going back to ME1, how the Protheans data and actions helped the current cycle. The Crucible follows that same path.

But it clashes with the series themes...

Nope, you were not paying attention. The final EC ending impliments all the major themes. Ending things on your terms is NOT one of them. In fact, you rarely do this throughout the series in a major way. there was always sacrifice, or more to the story, or a hollow victory. For Destroy, whine all you want about having to sacrifice synthetics but plainly, it fits the theme of the series. Remember Garrus talking about the "ruthless calculus of war"...well there you go. Control....Shepard was never  truly against controlling the Reapers, he was against TIM's methods and barbarism, while viewing him correctly as indoctrinated. Hell, Shepard can even ask Hackett "What if TIM is right?". There is no full betrayal here and no betrayal of themes. Synthesis goes back to ME1 with Saren's views. Did you miss that?

Nevermind the ending deals with main themes of the series like using others as tools without regards to the consquences, sacrifice, and even overcoming all odds....What ar ethe odds of Shepard even talking with the Catalyst and giving it a new solution.

The motive of the Catalyst is stupid....

Or not. He explains that there is no other option, through his EXPERIENCE in dealing with the conflict. Nevermind the cycle, is NOT his ideal solution. And fans simply ignore Mass Effect 2 Overlord....don't. it fits right in with the Catalyst's problem.

But it clashes with the series lore and has plot holes....

Originally, yes, but now it doesn't. The Catalyst simply has the highest lore authority here, you are simply too biased or ignorant to recognize this. ME3 even shows that Prothean VI's can be wrong, like Vendetta was about the Catalyst. Nevermind Vigil was wrong about Reapers wiping all traces of their existance. Derelict Reaper anyone, Leviathan of Dis? Prothean VI's and even Reapers have limited knowledge...the Catalyst and Leviathan has far more knowledge and far more authority on the lore...deal with it. Its not contradiction, its overrule.

If you cannot get that the Catalyst created the conditions so that a Shepard could rise and "solve" his problem, you didn't get the ending...the final canonical ending.

So what was the REAL problems with the ending?

Lack of closure, lack of clarity, underdeveloped Catalyst dialogue and an underdeveloped Catalyst, and lack of ending variations and consquences....all fixed with the extended cut. Everything else is fake criticisms, or basically the fact that A) You don't like it or You don't get it.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its flawed.

Only thing, that I can say about your words - Bullsh*t! <_<
Endings are REALLY horrible. Catalyst came from nowhere. Protheans didn't know anything about the Catalyst.
Vendetta wanted to say somethin' on Thessia, but on Kronos... He wasn't telling anything new...
REAL problems of ending, that Crucible's goal - TO KILL, DESTROY all Reapers, without any casualities from another species or synthetics. Only Reapers. Also ide of Control and Synthesis - it's an fake and Reapers' "suggestion". Saren was for Synthesis, Illusive Man - for Control. But no one, except of them were for DESTROYING the Reaper threat. Hackett, Anderson, Garrus, Ashley, Kaidan, Javic, Wrex, Mordin... Everyone!