39 réponses à ce sujet

[Spedfrom]

This thread will be about the Dialog Wheel, yes, but not used to complain about it.
Up to now I prefer DA:O's list, but I don't dislike the dialog wheel. And improving the icons and the paraphrases will probably go a long way to make it work better in terms of character control and perception of that.

Personally, however, that won't be enough. My main gripe with the dialog wheel in DA2 was actually the rigidity of the 3 intended tone options. You can be sympathetic, you can be snarky/humourous and you can be aggressive. The problem is that often times I find myself wanting to only say something neutral to move the conversation along, either because I don't have a strong opinion about what the NPC said or I just want to be as neutral as possible in order to avoid conflict or to not permit said NPC to understand how I feel about the topic of discussion. This immediately removes sympathetic and aggressive as possible tones, but being snarky about it doesn't fit into what I'm looking for either. In real life being snarky to people will often result in having them become more disdainful towards me, perhaps aggressive even, or they'll just laugh it off it they have a thicker skin. It will most likely provoke a reaction instead of not and as such there is no option to just say something in a "poker face" kind of way.

And besides, why should a snarky/humourous attitude be considered the middle ground or the neutral one? It's even physically represented in the middle. This is something that I don't feel comfortable with and works detrimentally towards my enjoyment of the game because in all conversations I am being forced into a tone that in some cases I just don't want to choose.

I would say that the current 3 should be flavours and there should be an extra one, the neutral stance or the poker face tone. Are you devs thinking of adding more tone options to the dialog wheel? Any information would be appreciated. 

Modifié par Spedfrom, 24 novembre 2012 - 05:08 .

[jonesd]

It has been said that DAO and DA2 are of the same mold. It is only more obvious in DA2 because the protagonist is voiced and also the icons on the wheel.

I personally liked the wheel for the most part though. I think the aggressive lines were more jerky than firm a lot of the time, but maybe that is what they intended.

Modifié par jonesd, 24 novembre 2012 - 05:17 .

[Spedfrom]

jonesd wrote...

It has been said that DAO and DA2 are of the same mold. It is only more obvious in DA2 because the protagonist is voiced and also the icons on the wheel.

I am aware of that, but the problem is only now too apparent. And Hawke's voice actor just made it worse in how snarky he could be at times. Often times I was expecting him to snicker at the end of the line!

[The Six Path of Pain]

I'd prefer they get rid of the tones altogether,but I doubt that is going to happen.If so then I would love if they added a stoic tone on the wheel

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

You know I'd actually like to see some timed reaction events similar to the Paragon/Renegade ones in ME 2 and 3. Some of those were fun and immensely satisfying.

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 24 novembre 2012 - 05:55 .

[Spedfrom]

While I have yet to play ME2 and 3 and can't comment on the timed reaction events, a stoic tone is rather what I was looking for. Perhaps it's just a different description for the same thing, but stoicism is actually a very adequate concept for what I was trying to convey.

[Fredward]

The only gripe I have is that they all seemed so... extreme. Nice Hawke made me teeth itch, aggro Hawke sounded like he/she wanted to kill something ALL THE TIME. Funny Hawke was good for me because you could always hide intentions behind humor, he/she also sounded less crazy than the other two. Tho I wish the responses were funnier. The DLC's were good with that though. Spit mages and "don't pretend you wouldn't do it too!" being some of my favorites. OH! And that part with the bee sting at Chateau Haine. OH! And the monologue that happens if you visit the Chantry alone when Saemus dies. That was HILARIOUS. We need more of that. xp

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Spedfrom wrote...

While I have yet to play ME2 and 3 and can't comment on the timed reaction events, a stoic tone is rather what I was looking for. Perhaps it's just a different description for the same thing, but stoicism is actually a very adequate concept for what I was trying to convey.

That would be a nice dialogue option to have, actually. Go to YouTube and type "shepard pushes merc" into the search. That will give you a pretty good idea of how those work.

[RandomSyhn]

I do likr the idea of increasing the possibility of tones the PC can use. I personally enjoy the sarcasm tone but I agree sometimes agressive came off more jerky that intended. I like the idea of stoic, and if there could be a choice towards sympathetic that doesn't make me feel like a pushover I'd appreciate that. So good but less naieve, maybe even a bit jaded.

Please add Stoic and Jaded to my dialogue wheel. 8D

[The Six Path of Pain]

Spedfrom wrote...

While I have yet to play ME2 and 3 and can't comment on the timed reaction events, a stoic tone is rather what I was looking for. Perhaps it's just a different description for the same thing, but stoicism is actually a very adequate concept for what I was trying to convey.

Yeah imagine your PC always calm,rational,and level headed no matter what situation he/she is in.There could be a village being burned down by demons with people dying,screaming,and panicking.Then your character walks in with a blank emotioless face and calmly says"Oh look demons guess I better kill them"<_<...Plus you can be straightforward and serious without acting like a dick or sounding like you want to kill everyone you meet.

[Spedfrom]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Spedfrom wrote...

While I have yet to play ME2 and 3 and can't comment on the timed reaction events, a stoic tone is rather what I was looking for. Perhaps it's just a different description for the same thing, but stoicism is actually a very adequate concept for what I was trying to convey.

That would be a nice dialogue option to have, actually. Go to YouTube and type "shepard pushes merc" into the search. That will give you a pretty good idea of how those work.

That's an interesting feature and I suppose it might make it into DA3 as one of the devs has already stated in one of the threads here that they're looking into adding more non-combat resolutions to conflicts. But it's only situational and by itself it doesn't really give more tone options for carrying conversations, which is what I'd like to see.

[deuce985]

All I want is more personality types for the situation. Each category of tone only had two different types. Not every situation fits those tones.

[Auintus]

They won't be able to have a dozen tones for every situation, but I agree that a neutral tone would be a good addition.
Also, can persuasion checks not be attached to your personality? That was more annoying than anything else.

[labargegrrrl]

have said it before and will say it again...

there should have been two options for each personality type.

agro had a nasty predisposition to automatically be anti-mage (think agrohawke with grace in act i) most of the time, which didn't fly with all my hawkes...except on one quest i can think of where you pretty much had to sound anti-templar if you were into fisting (that whole mess with anders/justice in dissent) and that didn't work well with pro-circle/anti-mage agros.

diplo options often were given to agreeing with everyone in situations where you wanted them to disagree in a peaceable manner (remembering merril's little blood mage sequence in particular, or any convo with anders when using pro-circle diplohawke)

and with purple people, i never knew if i'd end up with a joke or a charm, and sometimes one or the other didn't seem appropriate (think viscount dumar/seamus? aveline was right! snarky responses just make you sound like an @ss!)

of course, you could always respond out of character, and that's fine. but even with that, sometimes i wanted to, say, chew someone out with my diplo, or make a joke with my agro, but doing so would have put me in agreement with people i would disagree with.

right side/left side options for each personality type would have resolved this pretty well, i think.

as for a poker face...meh. there was an entire game where i had one of those. a very bland, lifeless, empty-gazed one. people misunderstood it all the time, it seemed...

[BlueMagitek]

You're right, we need a Tim Curry option. That varies between IT, Rocky Horror and Muppets Treasure Island Tim Curry. =D

[cJohnOne]

If they made the game just for me than I would get rid of sarcastic and aggressive and replace them with neutral and Scoundrel. Scoundrel if very good. It lets you be good or evil, crack jokes, lie or whatever. I personally don't use evil that much.

[CrystaJ]

My gripe about the wheel is that the flirt options seem to belong to Snarky Hawke and it was a bit out of character for my Aggressive Hawke... so I guess my complaint is actually more of an issue with consistency than lack of nuance. I don't picture Diplomatic Hawke being that corny, either.

I've played through all three personalities out of curiosity and I actually liked playing Aggressive Hawke the most and more in line with my own thinking. Diplomatic Hawke was incredibly polite and nice and offended no one, Sarcastic Hawke seemed to just sit back and watch Kirkwall destroy itself with a smile, and Aggressive Hawke just seemed to be trying his best to keep **** together while being surrounded by people he thought were morons.

[Twisted Path]

jonesd wrote...

It has been said that DAO and DA2 are of the same mold. It is only more obvious in DA2 because the protagonist is voiced and also the icons on the wheel.

That's been said but it's not really true. The diologue options in Origins covered a wider varity of tones than just kind/smug/agressive. For instance there were points where you had the option to be downright cowardly.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

I think voice tone varies mostly depend on emotion. Pride, relief, anticipation, joy, sad, anger etc can each can be toned differently beyond the limted range of current DA's voice choices of subtle, humourous and aggressive tones. That doesn't meant everyone will tone their voices everytime they feel something ( as shown in DA 2's cinematic conversation played by BioWare's actor called Hawke ). Some people ( depend on their persona ) may prefer to remain composure and may voice monotonously ( I could sound monotonously even in my murderous mood and other people could still judge that I'm about to explode into the incredbile hulk ). Some people's would deliberately vary their tone by lowering their pitch, based on situation such as when they're debating or fighting.

What I'm trying to say is you can't really voice much with only a selection of subtle, humorous and aggresive tone in communicating. The tones can't fit in all situations and emotion expression. It's too contrived. It just doesn't feel and sound right, at least to me. 

 

[azerSheppard]

It really dumbs down the level of the dialouge if your main character only has 1 dimension. How about making a real character? But i suppose that would require actual writing...

[RedWulfi]

Problem is auto dialog. I found that on my aggressive playthrough hawke would sometimes respond calmly. Made her seem bipolar.

[Nurot]

I had no trouble playing with only three tones in DA2. I actually think DAO is more limiting, since the aggressive option in DAO is more plain evil, rather than just angry/direct like in DA2. That said, I wouldn't complain if they added more tones in future games. Who can say no to more content? But I think adding one or more tones would be time consuming and expensive.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

I'd prefer they get rid of the tones altogether,but I doubt that is going to happen.If so then I would love if they added a stoic tone on the wheel

There totally needs to be a stoic tone, also my character needs to walk around with a perma pissed off look on his face that never changes, I dont want to see ANY emotion on my character's face other than pissed off.