30 réponses à ce sujet

[MagicalMaster]

WhiZard wrote...

Given that a good investment in WM cranks up the AB significantly to allow a better chance for the huge (10-20) range than other builds would have trouble in making, the x4 comes slightly below EWS expectation while x3 and x5 are arguably higher.  Thus, for a strength based WM, overwhelming critical and EWS are of nigh equal value

Er, no.  Among other things, you're forgetting that EWS damage is multiplied on a crit.

Let's look at the most extreme examples:

We'll look at a WM with a x3, x4, and x5 crit with 10-20, 16-20, and 16-20 respectively.  We'll also assume every single attack that threatens critical actually criticals just to skew it as much toward OC as possible.

1. OC for x3 crit is 10.5 extra damage per crit, 55% chance of critting, 5.775 extra damage per attack.  EWS is 45% chance of 4 damage, 55% chance of 12 damage, on average 8.4 extra damage per attack.  EWS is 45% better even in this extreme situation.

2. OC for x4 crit is 14 extra damage per crit, 25% chance of critting, 3.5 extra damage per attack.  EWS is 75% chance of 4 damage, 25% chance of 16 damage, on average 7 extra damage per attack.  EWS is 100% better.

3. OC for x5 crit is 17.5 extra damage per crit, 25% chance of critting, 4.375 extra damage per attack.  EWS is 75% chance of 4 damage, 25% chance of 16 damage, on average 7 extra damage per attack.  EWS is 60% better.

So even assuming the perfect situation for OC (WM with a scimitar/rapier/kukri and every attack that threatens critical actually crits), EWS is still 45% better than OC.

Now let's look at a more typical example, a fighter using a longsword.  He has 15-20 crit for x2 damage.

4. OC for x2 crit is 7 extra damage per crit, 30% chance of critting, 2.1 extra damage per attack.  EWS is 70% chance of 4 damage, 30% chance of 8 damage, on average 5.2 damage.  EWS is147% better.

Or how about a battleaxe/warhammer?

5. OC for x3 crit is 10.5 extra damage per crit, 15% chance of critting, 1.575 extra damage per attack.  EWS is 85% chance of 4 damage, 15% chance of 12 damage, on average 5.2 damage.  EWS is 230% better.

The best we were able to do is having EWS "only" 45% better than OC.

Furthermore, it's important to remember OC requires 4 feats total, and at high level Power Attack/Cleave/Great Cleave tend to be pretty worthless (anything weak enough to get Great Cleaved down will die very quickly with 5 attacks per round anyway).

Conclusion: OC is pretty terrible, even if everything is vulnerable to crits (I loathe crit immunity).

Aelis Eine wrote...

weapons would need to grant morethan +5 and +2d6 damage just for dual wielding to break even when hitting mobs 1 AC lower than the single wielder's best attack.

In other words, unless we are talking about very very high damage on weapons

That would be why I said higher magic environment, because I'm talking about stuff like weapons with 10 or greater enhancement and stuff like multiple damage types with 2d12 or better damage on each.

Modifié par MagicalMaster, 01 décembre 2012 - 09:34 .

[Aelis Eine]

MagicalMaster wrote...
That would be why I said higher magic environment, because I'm talking about stuff like weapons with 10 or greater enhancement and stuff like multiple damage types with 2d12 or better damage on each.

I think I can count the number of places that do this magic level well on one hand... 

[MagicalMaster]

+5 weapons with 2d6 damage would be medium magic. I've heard a lot about "high magic worlds," and at a minimum I know of Higher Ground (but I've only played on 5 PWs total).

[Elhanan]

^ Well, cannot speak for the others, but you have convinced me that Overwhelming Crit is not worth the current investment. Perhaps another d6 per multiplier would useful in improving it; dunno, but as I am loathe to take Dev Crit anyway, I can see choosing other Feats.

Still, I find it much more enjoyable to see high dmg numbers than repeated Save vs Death during combat; more respect for the design, too.

[WhiZard]

MagicalMaster wrote...
Er, no.  Among other things, you're forgetting that EWS damage is multiplied on a crit.

Facepalm.  Yes, I made a novice blunder.  So OC at best is between WS and EWS on those succeptible to crits.

[MagicalMaster]

Elhanan wrote...

^ Well, cannot speak for the others, but you have convinced me that Overwhelming Crit is not worth the current investment. Perhaps another d6 per multiplier would useful in improving it; dunno, but as I am loathe to take Dev Crit anyway, I can see choosing other Feats.

Still, I find it much more enjoyable to see high dmg numbers than repeated Save vs Death during combat; more respect for the design, too.

At least Higher Ground and The Awakening managed to make Dev Crit add an additional crit multiplier.  That requires some plug-ins, however, as far as I know.

I managed to do a simple script that added Massive Criticals, which could at least double or triple the value.  Another option you can do is to not have Keen available normally but make Overwhelming Critical make your weapon Keen.  Or even combine the Keen and Massive Criticals.

WhiZard wrote...

Facepalm.  Yes, I made a novice blunder.  So OC at best is between WS and EWS on those succeptible to crits.

Yep.  Rather disappointing.

Modifié par MagicalMaster, 03 décembre 2012 - 05:48 .