224 réponses à ce sujet

[Islandrockzor]

As stated earlier, Elcor paraphrasing would solve everything.

[Anthadlas]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...
Plus they just don't like it, I guess.

Thats a horrible reason. 

Thats the exact reason you want it changed

[HurricaneGinger]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...

Like you, I thought it would be a good idea to see fully what my character would say. WRONG.

I've played game with PCVO and full text. It never bothered me.

Then you're lucky, because it bothered the hell out of me. 

Why does it bother you?

Reread my post if you like. But basically, I didn't see the point of reading an entire line then hear my character speak it. It took up time and was repetative. Granted, it wasn't a lot of time taken up, but it was enough for me. It was like reading a sentence in a book, then playing the same sentence from the audio-book.

Modifié par PhantomGinger, 25 novembre 2012 - 10:48 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Plaintiff wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...
I want to disagree with someone; not scream at the top of my lungs, and cannibalize them in front of their children. 

When did this ever happen? That's the best dialogue option ever.

I hope this is an option in DA3

[Captain Crash]

In the case of a voiced protagonist repeating exactly what was on screen every line of conversation would quickly become tiresome. Paraphrasing is needed even if only for this reason.

But as others have said, it still could do with some work as some the options in DA2 didnt turn out as you expected or wanted them.

[Fredward]

PhantomGinger wrote...
Reread my post if you like. But basically, I didn't see the point of reading an entire line then hear my character speak it. It took up time and was repetative. Granted, it wasn't a lot of time taken up, but it was enough for me. It was like reading a sentence in a book, then playing the same sentence from the audio-book.

For me it was like being back in grade 1 where the teacher would have us read a sentence in English and then she would repeat it. MADDENING.

[ImperatorMortis]

Wraith 02 wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...
Plus they just don't like it, I guess.

Thats a horrible reason. 

Thats the exact reason you want it changed

Not exactly. I never said I wanted paraphrasing to be gone. I just want an option for the people who want to know exactly what the **** we're about to say. 

And as shown. My idea has been done before, and it worked. 

Edit: I realize what the title says. But I sort of typed that in the heat of the moment. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 25 novembre 2012 - 11:00 .

[Conduit0]

ianvillan wrote...

We have been hearing the same dev argument about how they are going to make paraphrasing better for years now yet it is still the same as when it started.

ME1 had paraphrasing fans complained Bioware said they would make it better.
ME2 had the same problems with paraphrasing and fans complained, Bioware said they will make it better.
ME3 still had the same problems with paraphrasing as the first two games.

When it was announced that DA2 would have the dialogue wheel Bioware said that they knew the fan complaints about paraphrasing and would make it so there was no problems. Yet all they did was add the icons which did nothing to make paraphrasing better and fans still complained about how bad the paraphrasing was.

So here we are again complaining about paraphrasing and Bioware still says the same thing how they listened to the complaints and are going to make paraphrasing better.

I believe that as long as Bioware will continue to keep the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing and refuse to change them paraphrasing will always be a problem. Is it actually possible to know what your character is going to say if you only have a fraction of the information availiable to you.

Birds chirp, fish swim, and Bioware fans complain, its what they do. Honestly if you listened only to the fans, you'd swear Bioware was the worst developer in the history of the gaming industry. People will continue to complain no matter what Bioware does, because nothing they can do will ever please everyone.

[ImperatorMortis]

Conduit0 wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

We have been hearing the same dev argument about how they are going to make paraphrasing better for years now yet it is still the same as when it started.

ME1 had paraphrasing fans complained Bioware said they would make it better.
ME2 had the same problems with paraphrasing and fans complained, Bioware said they will make it better.
ME3 still had the same problems with paraphrasing as the first two games.

When it was announced that DA2 would have the dialogue wheel Bioware said that they knew the fan complaints about paraphrasing and would make it so there was no problems. Yet all they did was add the icons which did nothing to make paraphrasing better and fans still complained about how bad the paraphrasing was.

So here we are again complaining about paraphrasing and Bioware still says the same thing how they listened to the complaints and are going to make paraphrasing better.

I believe that as long as Bioware will continue to keep the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing and refuse to change them paraphrasing will always be a problem. Is it actually possible to know what your character is going to say if you only have a fraction of the information availiable to you.

Birds chirp, fish swim, and Bioware fans complain, its what they do. Honestly if you listened only to the fans, you'd swear Bioware was the worst developer in the history of the gaming industry. People will continue to complain no matter what Bioware does, because nothing they can do will ever please everyone.

So... We're not allowed to complain on here? The Mass Effect 3 sub forum has been lying to me this whole time?

I feel so used.. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 25 novembre 2012 - 10:57 .

[TEWR]

Paraphrases aren't inherently bad. It's when they're poorly paraphrased responses that the dialogue system begins to crash and burn.

I say, let it. Then build the Walking Dead method of presenting dialogue text over the smoldering carnage that lay before you, whilst still maintaining the DA3 style of presentation in their idea of the dialogue wheel.

[HurricaneGinger]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...
Reread my post if you like. But basically, I didn't see the point of reading an entire line then hear my character speak it. It took up time and was repetative. Granted, it wasn't a lot of time taken up, but it was enough for me. It was like reading a sentence in a book, then playing the same sentence from the audio-book.

For me it was like being back in grade 1 where the teacher would have us read a sentence in English and then she would repeat it. MADDENING.

My college professor did that...

[upsettingshorts]

Speaking of college professors, I am going to apply for a grant to fund a study that will look into sustainable alternative energy based upon the renewable resource of paraphrase-complaining threads.

[ImperatorMortis]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Speaking of college professors, I am going to apply for a grant to fund a study that will look into sustainable alternative energy based upon the renewable resource of paraphrase-complaining threads.

I suggest you use Mass Effect 3 ending complaint threads as an alternative. Its a never ending resource at this point. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 25 novembre 2012 - 11:08 .

[Conduit0]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Speaking of college professors, I am going to apply for a grant to fund a study that will look into sustainable alternative energy based upon the renewable resource of paraphrase-complaining threads.

When you publish, will the paper be called, "From Bioware to Biofuel"?

[hobbit of the shire]

I agree that showing the entire fully voiced dialogue is not good, because that's kinda redundant. However, I NEED to know the intent of what my PC is about say. That can be in the form of:

1) A sentence or phrase from the voiced dialogue.
e.g. If Hawke says, "You know, Isabela, I know you're used to getting your way with people by showing a little skin or sweet-talking, but your tactics aren't going to work on me," then the text should be, "Your tactics aren't going to work on me."
Short and sweet and I know what my PC is going to say. I just don't know every word, but I fully know his/her intent.

2) Don't show dialogue, but just the action or intent.
e.g. Taking the example from the above, the text could be, "Tell Isabela her flirtations have no effect on me."

Just these 2 options would make me sooo much happier! I'm at the point of distrusting the paraphrasing and then just choosing from the wheel labels. I'm reading the text and then thinking, hmm... is that what Hawke is really going to say, then looking at the icons and going, hmm, probably not, and then choosing from the icons. And I end up right. Which is dumb because that means the icons are more useful than the paraphrasing.

Modifié par hobbit_of_the_shire, 25 novembre 2012 - 11:14 .

[upsettingshorts]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Speaking of college professors, I am going to apply for a grant to fund a study that will look into sustainable alternative energy based upon the renewable resource of paraphrase-complaining threads.

I suggest you use Mass Effect 3 ending complaint threads as an alternative. Its a never ending resource at this point. 

Oh they've already found a way to utilize those threads.

[ImperatorMortis]

hobbit_of_the_shire wrote...

I agree that showing the entire fully voiced dialogue is not good, because that's kinda redundant. However, I NEED to know the intent of what my PC is about say. That can be in the form of:

1) A sentence or phrase from the voiced dialogue.
e.g. If Hawke says, "You know, Isabela, I know you're used to getting your way with people by showing a little skin or sweet-talking, but your tactics aren't going to work on me," then the text should be, "Your tactics aren't going to work on me."
Short and sweet and I know what my PC is going to say. I just don't know every word, but I fully know his/her intent.

2) Don't show dialogue, but just the action or intent.
e.g. Taking the example from the above, the text could be, "Tell Isabela her flirtations have no effect on me."

Just these 2 options would make me sooo much happier! I'm at the point of distrusting the paraphrasing and then just choosing from the wheel labels. I'm reading the text and then thinking, hmm... is that what Hawke is really going to say, then looking at the icons and going, hmm, probably not, and then choosing from the icons. And I end up right. Which is dumb because that means the icons are more useful than the paraphrasing.

Well thats actually kind of nice. 

I still prefer the Elcor paraphrase idea though. Its pretty much brilliant, and would solve all of my dialogue problems. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 25 novembre 2012 - 11:17 .

[Conduit0]

hobbit_of_the_shire wrote...

I agree that showing the entire fully voiced dialogue is not good, because that's kinda redundant. However, I NEED to know the intent of what my PC is about say. That can be in the form of:

1) A sentence or phrase from the voiced dialogue.
e.g. If Hawke says, "You know, Isabela, I know you're used to getting your way with people by showing a little skin or sweet-talking, but your tactics aren't going to work on me," then the text should be, "Your tactics aren't going to work on me."
Short and sweet and I know what my PC is going to say. I just don't know every word, but I fully know his/her intent.

2) Don't show dialogue, but just the action or intent.
e.g. Taking the example from the above, the text could be, "Tell Isabela her flirtations have no effect on me."

Just these 2 options would make me sooo much happier! I'm at the point of distrusting the paraphrasing and then just choosing from the wheel labels. I'm reading the text and then thinking, hmm... is that what Hawke is really going to say, then looking at the icons and going, hmm, probably not, and then choosing from the icons. And I end up right. Which is dumb because that means the icons are more useful than the paraphrasing.

Erm, they've already done exactly that.

1) A paraphrase sums what the PC will say in a few short words.

2) The emote icons give you intent.

Congratulations, you got exactly what you wanted!

[CrazyRah]

Paraphrasing itself isn't bad but it can become an issue when it's doing a poor job at conveying what will be said. If given the time that it need then i'd guess that most of the poor paraphrasing will be gone since then Bioware can actually come up with better paraphrases than the already existing ones before the game is shipped

[DragonAgeLegend]

What's wrong with paraphrasing? I think it's great, I wouldn't like reading exactly what my characters response is going to be then hear them say it. That would be unproductive with no reason of having a voiced protagonist.

[ImperatorMortis]

wesam987 wrote...

What's wrong with paraphrasing? I think it's great, I wouldn't like reading exactly what my characters response is going to be then hear them say it. That would be unproductive with no reason of having a voiced protagonist.

The reason you'd have a voice protagonist is to actually hear what they're saying. It worked in Deus Ex(Original).

But the reason it bothers me is that sometimes the dialogue options go a bit overboard(see my cannibalism comparison). 

Conduit0 wrote...

hobbit_of_the_shire wrote...

I agree that showing the entire fully voiced dialogue is not good, because that's kinda redundant. However, I NEED to know the intent of what my PC is about say. That can be in the form of:

1) A sentence or phrase from the voiced dialogue.
e.g. If Hawke says, "You know, Isabela, I know you're used to getting your way with people by showing a little skin or sweet-talking, but your tactics aren't going to work on me," then the text should be, "Your tactics aren't going to work on me."
Short and sweet and I know what my PC is going to say. I just don't know every word, but I fully know his/her intent.

2) Don't show dialogue, but just the action or intent.
e.g. Taking the example from the above, the text could be, "Tell Isabela her flirtations have no effect on me."

Just these 2 options would make me sooo much happier! I'm at the point of distrusting the paraphrasing and then just choosing from the wheel labels. I'm reading the text and then thinking, hmm... is that what Hawke is really going to say, then looking at the icons and going, hmm, probably not, and then choosing from the icons. And I end up right. Which is dumb because that means the icons are more useful than the paraphrasing.

Erm, they've already done exactly that.

1) A paraphrase sums what the PC will say in a few short words.

2) The emote icons give you intent.

Congratulations, you got exactly what you wanted!

Seriously whats your problem? Do you just like  to get on everyone who says anything even remotely negaive about a Bioware game or something? 

Whats the point? Its not like Biowares gonna toss you a biscuit or anything. 

Woof woof mother****ers. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 25 novembre 2012 - 11:33 .

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Conduit0 wrote...

ianvillan wrote...

We have been hearing the same dev argument about how they are going to make paraphrasing better for years now yet it is still the same as when it started.

ME1 had paraphrasing fans complained Bioware said they would make it better.
ME2 had the same problems with paraphrasing and fans complained, Bioware said they will make it better.
ME3 still had the same problems with paraphrasing as the first two games.

When it was announced that DA2 would have the dialogue wheel Bioware said that they knew the fan complaints about paraphrasing and would make it so there was no problems. Yet all they did was add the icons which did nothing to make paraphrasing better and fans still complained about how bad the paraphrasing was.

So here we are again complaining about paraphrasing and Bioware still says the same thing how they listened to the complaints and are going to make paraphrasing better.

I believe that as long as Bioware will continue to keep the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing and refuse to change them paraphrasing will always be a problem. Is it actually possible to know what your character is going to say if you only have a fraction of the information availiable to you.

Birds chirp, fish swim, and Bioware fans complain, its what they do. Honestly if you listened only to the fans, you'd swear Bioware was the worst developer in the history of the gaming industry. People will continue to complain no matter what Bioware does, because nothing they can do will ever please everyone.

At least they won't have paraphrases.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Speaking of college professors, I
am going to apply for a grant to fund a study that will look into
sustainable alternative energy based upon the renewable resource of
paraphrase-complaining threads.

10/10


I swear voiced protagonists are the root of all evil, without them everyone in this thread would be friends.

[Conduit0]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Seriously whats your problem? Do you just like  to get on everyone who says anything even remotely negaive about a Bioware game or something? 

Whats the point? Its not like Biowares gonna toss you a biscuit or anything. 

Woof woof mother****ers. 

I just enjoy poking holes in the arguments of whiners.

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

I swear voiced protagonists are the root of all evil, without them everyone in this thread would be friends.

Nope, instead we'd be arguing over how we don't like that our PC stares blankly off into the middle distance while everyone talks around him/her.

[ImperatorMortis]

Conduit0 wrote...

I just enjoy poking holes in the arguments of whiners.

Conduit0 wrote...

Nope, instead we'd be arguing over how we don't like that our PC stares blankly off into the middle distance while everyone talks around him/her.

 

And half the people in the thread would be telling them to go play Mass Effect. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 25 novembre 2012 - 11:52 .

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

They should just make it so the Awesome button™ makes the subtitles for what french hawke will say plays. Everybody wins and the programmers just have two coffee breaks instead of three