224 réponses à ce sujet

[ImperatorMortis]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

They should just make it so the Awesome button™ makes the subtitles for what french hawke will say plays. Everybody wins and the programmers just have two coffee breaks instead of three

Oh god. I had completely forgotten about the Awesome button.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Thats a horrible reason.

Then make your own game.

I would, if they provide the toolset like they did with Neverwinter Nights and DAO. In fact I did that all the times with almost all the games I bought - which is why I prefer sand box games with editor/toolset/creation kit/sdk. I build my own gaming experience or story within the context or limitation of the parent game. Unfortunately BioWare doesn't sell that type of product anymore, so I expected a lot of flexibility ( including toggles, customization, multi-divergent plots and endings, REAL choices and consequences, better character creation etc.. Yep, I expect it'll cost a lot of resources. But that's the cost of taking something creativity out of the game like toolset. )   

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 25 novembre 2012 - 01:24 .

[naughty99]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Look. I don't mind if DA3 has a voiced protagonist. I don't mind if we have to use the dialogue wheel again. I don't mind if we are gimped in terms of dialogue options(Well I do sort of mind this, but I'm used to it at this point.). 

But PLEASE stop paraphrasing dialogue. I am so sick of clicking an option yet it sounding nothing like was originally hinted at. I want to disagree with someone; not scream at the top of my lungs, and cannibalize them in front of their children. 

Better yet, just give us the option to read what our character is about to say fully. Like if we hold the mouse over a option long enough just let the dialogue appear on screen or something. 

This is something that has been driving me bat**** up the belfry since ME1, ME2,  ME3, DA2, and SWTOR. 

Please Bioware.. Stop the madness. 

I can understand what you mean, as it is annoying if the paraphrased part has a different meaning from what your character says.

However, I can't handle "non-paraphrased" dialogue where the complete text of what you will say is listed, and I suspect most people would find it very irritating. There was only one game I recall playing with that kind of setup and it was Arcania Gothic 4.

I read quite fast, and it is incredibly annoying to read the entire text of your response and then hear the voice actor say the exact same thing you just read. You just end up skipping past the voice acted part.

I suppose I prefer silent protagonist, but if it is voiced, paraphrasing is better than reading and then hearing the same thing again, as long as the paraphrase somewhat accurately represents the response.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

No, please keep paraphrasing, I like to be surprised. The DAO system was terrible.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

naughty99 wrote...
I read quite fast, and it is incredibly annoying to read the entire text of your response and then hear the voice actor say the exact same thing you just read.

Voice actor? You mean like, Mark Meer or Jennifer Hale say the same  you just read for Shepard? That's very weird way to view communication.

naughty99 wrote...

You just end up skipping past the voice acted part.

You end up skipping past the voice acted part anyway, if you're constantly frustrated with misleadinge paraphrased text. I know I skip the paraphrased dialogue all the times,only to choose tones icons all the way and press escape button everytime Shepard or Hawke open his mouth.   

naughty99 wrote...

I suppose I prefer silent protagonist, but if it is voiced, paraphrasing is better than reading and then hearing the same thing again, as long as the paraphrase somewhat accurately represents the response.

What if it is somewhat NOT accurate representing your intent?

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 25 novembre 2012 - 01:41 .

[upsettingshorts]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

I suppose I prefer silent protagonist, but if it is voiced, paraphrasing is better than reading and then hearing the same thing again, as long as the paraphrase somewhat accurately represents the response.

What if it is somewhat NOT accurate representing your intent?

Then you have three options, of which you can pick as many as you like:

1) Broaden your intent so that more outcomes can comfortably fit within it.  This will not remove all incongruencies, just most of them.

2) Accept that understanding how paraphrases work in games is a skill, and try to get better at predicting them.  It would help if the paraphrases and icons (from DA2) were better for this reason.

3) Give up the expectation that BioWare makes games for you anymore, or at least games you can continue to play in a way that you've been accustomed to, and either don't buy them or play them differently.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 novembre 2012 - 06:20 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Then you have three options, of which you can pick as many as you like:

1) Broaden your intent so that more outcomes can comfortably fit within it.  This will not remove all incongruencies, just most of them.

2) Accept that understanding how paraphrases work in games is a skill, and try to get better at predicting them.  It would help if the paraphrases and icons (from DA2) were better for this reason.

3) Give up the expectation that BioWare makes games for you anymore, or at least games you can continue to play in a way that you've been accustomed to, and either don't buy them or play them differently.

You forgot the fourth option:

4) Continue to post on the BSN complaining day in and day out about how this is going to kill the game, how it will spell doom for Bioware, and how they will never ever get your money. This will typically be punctuated by saying that one has the right to voice one's opinion, and how one's opinion is more valuable than others because one represents the true unvoiced majority, often citing other, somewhat similar games and using the ONE feature as the sole reason that game was successful.

[xsdob]

Have you ever played deus ex human revolution OP? Would that dialouge choice system be similar to what your looking for?

[In Exile]

ianvillan wrote...

We have been hearing the same dev argument about how they are going to make paraphrasing better for years now yet it is still the same as when it started.

...

I believe that as long as Bioware will continue to keep the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing and refuse to change them paraphrasing will always be a problem. Is it actually possible to know what your character is going to say if you only have a fraction of the information availiable to you.

Bioware is tackling the root of the problem: no word overlap between the paraphrase and spoken line. This was the issue in DA2. This is what they're removing. This is what TW2 did with its paraphrase, and (as far as I can tell) there are not many complaints.

Xewaka wrote...
I like how WRONG it is
in this particularly stance. I have extensively played games with full
voiced PC and full line dialogue options. Never once the voice caused a
problem. For reference, here's a (not comprehensive) list of games
pointing at his wrongness:

...

Again,
all these games have fully voiced characters and full line dialogue
choices. In none of them the voiced character supposed an issue. Do not
assume we've not done our homework either.

David was talking about the "I want to imagine the tone of my PCs voice!" people. That's what the thread was about, and he was talking about it in the context of people asking for the silent PC to return so that they would have more options ( I believe it was also the thread were Mary debunked that DA:O had more dialogue options/hub than DA2).

[In Exile]

Conduit0 wrote...
1) A paraphrase sums what the PC will say in a few short words.

2) The emote icons give you intent.

The poster is quite clealry asking for what Bioware doesn't do: overlap words between the spoken line and paraphrase. That obsfuscates meaning, because sometimes there's only one word that apprehends a meaning in English. Swapping it up screws up everything.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

I prefer NOT knowing exactly what my character is about to say. Having the line I JUST READ said back to me is incredibly annoying. Paraphrasing could be clearer, which is something they said they'd be working on.

^This 100%

[gangly369]

And once again this thread pops up. Why people continue to rail against this I have no idea. Bioware has heard the complaints, they have addressed them and said that they are sticking with paraphrasing, end of story. Continuing to whine about them at this point is just annoying and shows a lack of ability to use the search button. That or it is a deliberate attempt at trying to troll (although in this case I would probably think it's just ignorance). If this is something you so detest, then the only option you have at this point is to leave this game, sad as that prospect is.

This is a design that the Bioware team has chosen and decided to stick with, for all of its flaws and problems. Better get use to it, or move on to a different game company that conforms to your ideas better. If this were an issue that was still up for debate, I would of course have no problem with the OP bringing up this issue and having a conversation on what Bioware should have in the dialogue system. It isn't, though. Personally I like it, hence why I plan to get DA3, but if people don't like it, I completely understand. Just stop whining and move on, please, because this game obviously isnt for you if all you can do is complain about it non-stop

[Vit246]

I used to tolerate the dialogue wheel and paraphrasing back with ME1. No more.

The problem is this. Bioware stubbornly insists on fully voiced dialogue from now on, which is a problem for full text because it would probably be redundant, repetitive and annoying. Personally, I would totally tolerate it just so I could have full control over my character roleplaying, but I'm a minority. So with voiced dialogue, paraphrases must be used just because most people don't want to read and then hear it word-for-word. And paraphrases are inherently never going to have enough info or be varied in the way that simple full text provides. Full text could be used if only a silent protagonist was used, or if people stopped caring about having full text with a full voice.

And to the guy who prefers not knowing exactly what his character is about to say: WHY are you playing rpgs anyway? Would you tolerate knowing exactly what your character is about say if it was NOT voiced?

Modifié par Vit246, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:00 .

[xsdob]

^ I hate none voiced characters and most bethesda rpg's for that very reason. It takes me out of the action to never hear my reply and makes it so that the other persons reply seems to be ridiculous.

This is how It feels like to me TBH.
Enemy: Any last words?
Protaganist:...
Enemy: WHAT!? My mother was a saint!!! Men, attack!

Modifié par xsdob, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:07 .

[Fredward]

Vit246 wrote...
And to the guy who prefers not knowing exactly what his character is about to say: WHY are you playing rpgs anyway? Would you tolerate knowing exactly what your character is about say if it was NOT voiced?

Is this me? Whatever I'mma be a rebel and answer anyway!

Duh. I personally don't have a problem with knowing what my character is about to say I have a problem with, after I've read it, it gets read back to me. xp

[Androme]

Agree, need full dialogue text as an option.

[CDRSkyShepard]

I think this is an issue fixed by better paraphrasing on behalf of the writers, not by eliminating it entirely.

What is the point of hearing my character speak if I know exactly what he/she is going to say beforehand? Might as well have a silent dialogue system. Not to mention cramming some of the lines Shep says into a convo wheel or menu would be an eyesore.

[Allan Schumacher]

CrustyBot wrote...

I always like to whip out my Thought Process Idea in cases like these, but I'm tired of spamming it.

I'm skimming through this thread, so forgive me if I'm wrong. But doesn't Deus Ex: Human Revolution implement the exact solution Imperator is suggesting?

Human Revolution frequently does not display the entire line.  Sometimes whole sentences of what Jensen is going to say is omitted, as well as other alterations that I assume occur due to space limitations.

[Sagekat]

A compromise: keep the paraphrase for those who like surprises but install a toggle where you tap a button while on a specific speech option that places the entire script of the dialogue on the screen before you choose it.

Modifié par Sagekat, 25 novembre 2012 - 09:26 .

[Merci357]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

CrustyBot wrote...

I always like to whip out my Thought Process Idea in cases like these, but I'm tired of spamming it.

I'm skimming through this thread, so forgive me if I'm wrong. But doesn't Deus Ex: Human Revolution implement the exact solution Imperator is suggesting?

Human Revolution frequently does not display the entire line.  Sometimes whole sentences of what Jensen is going to say is omitted, as well as other alterations that I assume occur due to space limitations.

This displayed sentence is almost always the exact line Adam will say. Yes, he'll often continues on his own after this, but still, in my view it gives a far better idea how the dialogue choice will pan out compared to paraphrases.