224 réponses à ce sujet

[SpunkyMonkey]

GlaberN7 wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

GlaberN7 wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

They could just have avoided all this by not having a voiced protagonist *facepalm*

Except that having a protagonist who talks via telepathy is totally inmersion breaker for a lot of people.

Why don't you speak the words yourself then? Just a thought.

Because that is utterly bizarre. XD

Not that I mind non voiced all that much really but reading the lines out loud to the computer would be hilarious.

lol

You really think so though? I don't tend to speak the words but I mentally read them is if the character is reading them.

Seriously, it's rather worrying how people feel the need for a voiced protagonist for "immersion" reasons. BG2 only had sporadic dialogue, yet was extremly immersive.

If I read a book I can picture people speaking to each other, and back in the old tabletop D&D days you used to say spells, scrolls etc.

To me it says that something is missing from the player that they need a voiced protagonist instead of being able to use a touch of imagination, or if they can't do that mimic the words.

Baldur's Gate works because no other character were given fully voiced dialogue, but when everyone talks except the protagonist, well... it seems out of place, to put it mildly.

Yes but most were given significantly voiced dialogue. Certainly enough to define their personalities (Aerie is annoying, Minsc is crazy, etc.).

It must be down to a personal POV because it doesn't seem out of place for me at all. I just read what the protagonist is meant to say in my head like in DA:O, all it takes is a touch of imagination.

That's what these games where built upon so it seems odd that we need the computer to fill in all the blanks.

I'd say badly paraphrased dialogue is far more immersion breaking than none at all. Hearing your hero say something miles away from what you originally intended really gives you some "WTF" moments.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 26 novembre 2012 - 04:10 .

[upsettingshorts]

In case anyone can't understand how someone might dislike silent protagonists in otherwise fully voiced games, here's what it feels like to play such games to me.

Imagine you're sitting on the couch in your living room. There is a movie playing on the TV in which everyone except the hero speaks normally. When the hero's turn to speak comes, the movie pauses on its own. Then you have to look down into your lap, and read the script. Then the movie resumes as normal. Repeat hundreds of times.  It's jarring, it kills any momentum a scene has dead in its tracks, breaks up pacing, forces a somewhat passive protagonist, and is - as others have said - simply bizarre.  

As long as everyone else in the game speaks, I want my protagonist to speak. If nobody else speaks, I don't want my protagonist to either. So when folks say, "RPGs shouldn't be interactive movies" I don't really empathize for one reason, I've always thought of them as either interactive books (see Baldur's Gate) or interactive movies, and I'm bothered when it occupies some clumsy inconsistent middle ground so many people seem to love.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 novembre 2012 - 07:46 .

[Todd23]

I once said to Cullen "I'm a mage!" and Hawke said something to the effect of: I'm not a mage, but...

That stuff I really hate, I've noticed that when people respond to something Hawke said, sometimes it's like their responding to the dialogue choice I made in spite of what Hawke actually said, and sometimes they respond to what Hawke said despite what I actually chose.

[Todd23]

RainbowPuppy wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

I once said to Cullen "I'm a mage!" and Hawke said something to the effect of: I'm not a mage, but...

That stuff I really hate, I've noticed that when people respond to something Hawke said, sometimes it's like their responding to the dialogue choice I made in spite of what Hawke actually said, and sometimes they respond to what Hawke said despite what I actually chose.

I think it was something like; "I have friends who are mages." Or am I misremembering?

What would you have wanted instead, though? For the paraphrase to read "I know some mages" or for Hawke to tell Cullen that she's a mage and then get a game-over screen as he takes her to the Gallows or something?

Is that a rhetorical question? "I have friends who are mages." would have at least been honest. I like to know what I'm going to say rather than hope Hawke doesn't screw me or make me look bad. And if he would have tried to take me in, the game would at least have a 3rd choice that matters.

[Mykel54]

I agree completely with the OP, there is really no point to paraphrasing other than making the current wheel look prettier. It could be adapted so that the wheel support longer lines of text, perhaps making it less round and changing the shape a bit. Also black cinematic bands could be activated during dialogue (like DAO), so the longer lines would be easily readable agaisnt a black blackdrop.

I think paraphrasing takes away from roleplaying, because the protagonist will likely do unexpected stuff no matter how close the paraphrases are to the voiced lines. I guess some people like this kind of surprise, knowing that the protagonist will make a joke (humorous choice) but not exactly what the joke is. Or that he is going to be agressive but it is not clear whenever that will be a punch or merely harsh words.

I prefer to have as much control over what the protagonist does or say (within the choices that the devs offer in the game), and i don´t like backtracking just because i misinterpreted a line and piked something else (i´m not a native speaker, so this happens to me sometimes).

Making the voiced lines fully visible would also make the game more accesible to other persons, like deaf people, or people who don´t have a good enough hearing level of english, and need subtitles to understand the game. To put one example, as a non native speaker, i really appreciated that bioware decided to add subtitles to ambient dialogue in both DAO and DA2. Otherwise, it would have been near impossible for me to understand what was going on there in the background.

In ME2 in Omega, there is a radio where some batarians speak, but even if i know some english, i have a very hard time understanding fully what they say, simply because there is no subtitles for it. In other places of ME2, like the galaxy news radio, there are subtitles, which makes much easier understanding what the dialogues say.

I think it is important to make all the players, regardless of their limitations, able to understand the game in it´s fullest, and i think subtitles and complete text for dialogue, instead of paraphrases, is a step in that direction.

Modifié par Mykel54, 26 novembre 2012 - 10:31 .

[Conduit0]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

In case anyone can't understand how someone might dislike silent protagonists in otherwise fully voiced games, here's what it feels like to play such games to me.

Imagine you're sitting on the couch in your living room. There is a movie playing on the TV in which everyone except the hero speaks normally. When the hero's turn to speak comes, the movie pauses on its own. Then you have to look down into your lap, and read the script. Then the movie resumes as normal. Repeat hundreds of times.  It's jarring, it kills any momentum a scene has dead in its tracks, breaks up pacing, forces a somewhat passive protagonist, and is - as others have said - simply bizarre.  

As long as everyone else in the game speaks, I want my protagonist to speak. If nobody else speaks, I don't want my protagonist to either. So when folks say, "RPGs shouldn't be interactive movies" I don't really empathize for one reason, I've always thought of them as either interactive books (see Baldur's Gate) or interactive movies, and I'm bothered when it occupies some clumsy inconsistent middle ground so many people seem to love.

I gotta agree with this.

[Maria Caliban]

RainbowPuppy wrote...

What would you have wanted instead, though? For the paraphrase to read "I know some mages" or for Hawke to tell Cullen that she's a mage and then get a game-over screen as he takes her to the Gallows or something?

1) False choices are bad. If the seems to be giving you an option and then snatches it away when you pick it, that's the game rubbing your face in its lack of interactivity.

2) Yes, if a game gives me the option to do something stupid and I do something stupid, I'd like to be punished for it. Actions should have consequences and not all consequences have to be nice ones.

Take your example of Cullen leading a mage Hawke to the Gallows. I see no problem with that. There's an autosave whenever you enter a new area, so the player will probably only lose a few minutes of time. Moreover, it means that not only are you getting class based content (presumably only mages get that line) but the game is reinforcing the lore of the world.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 26 novembre 2012 - 10:41 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Just finish what ME3 started with it's dialogue and have the PC talk without any form of player input except selection of one general tone at the start of the game. Paraphrasing problem solved!

[jillabender]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

In case anyone can't understand how someone might dislike silent protagonists in otherwise fully voiced games, here's what it feels like to play such games to me.

Imagine you're sitting on the couch in your living room. There is a movie playing on the TV in which everyone except the hero speaks normally. When the hero's turn to speak comes, the movie pauses on its own. Then you have to look down into your lap, and read the script. Then the movie resumes as normal. Repeat hundreds of times.  It's jarring, it kills any momentum a scene has dead in its tracks, breaks up pacing, forces a somewhat passive protagonist, and is - as others have said - simply bizarre.  

As long as everyone else in the game speaks, I want my protagonist to speak. If nobody else speaks, I don't want my protagonist to either. So when folks say, "RPGs shouldn't be interactive movies" I don't really empathize for one reason, I've always thought of them as either interactive books (see Baldur's Gate) or interactive movies, and I'm bothered when it occupies some clumsy inconsistent middle ground so many people seem to love.

I admit that I prefer the way DA:O handled a silent protagonist to the way DA2 handled a voiced protagonist, but what you say makes sense to me. As much as I love DA:O, I can understand why some people might find the combination of a cinematic presentation with a silent protagonist jarring.

Personally, I'm not fundamentally opposed to voiced protagonists in RPGs. I have no problem with playing Shepard in ME1, for example. When I'm playing Shepard in ME1, I know that I'm playing a character with an established pesonality, but I can take an active role in defining how she grows and develops as a person depending on the choices she makes, and I still find that to be a satisfying form of role-playing.

When playing Hawke, on the other hand, I felt a bit lost. Compared with Shepard, Hawke's personality felt less firmly pre-established, which made it harder to approach making choices from an in-character point of view (i.e. "what would this version of Hawke do?").

DA2 seems to be geared more toward an approach where the player makes decisions from the point of view of a player influencing the direction of the story (i.e. "I want to see how the story will play out if I do x."). While there's nothing necessarily wrong with that approach, I just don't personally find it very exciting.

I'm aware that part of my difficulty with playing Hawke in DA2 came from the fact that Hawke just wasn't my kind of character. Don't get me wrong – I found Hawke entertaining, and I thought that he or she had some brilliantly written moments (like when blaming Aveline for the death of Leandra). But I often found that, no matter which dialogue options I chose, Hawke's demeanour came across as smug, smarmy, affected, or detached, in ways that I found off-putting.

It's not that I disliked Hawke, it's just that I wasn't quite sure what to make of him or her. Maybe it's just that I find it easier to connect with characters who show more vulnerability. That being said, I'm aware that DA3 will probably feature a quite different kind of protagonist, so I'm not too concerned that my difficulties with Hawke in particular will repeat themselves in DA3.

So, I guess my main point is that I don't mind playing voiced characters in RPGs, nor do I mind playing a set protagonist with a firmly pre-established personality. But when I'm given a voiced protagonist without a firmly pre-established personality, I find it difficult to make choices from the character's point of view – and that takes away from my enjoyment.

I don't necessarily feel the need to define everything about my character and his or her personality, but I do look for RPGs in which I can make choices from an in-character perspective. The lack of that isn't necessarily a deal-breaker for me, but it's something that, for me personally, can make the difference between liking an RPG and loving it. Of course, there's always the possibility that a game will come along that will change my mind.

Modifié par jillabender, 27 novembre 2012 - 02:16 .

[Korusus]

SWTOR is a good compromise. Keep your beloved paraphrases (no matter how stupid they are), but at least let us start the conversation over if our character says something wildly out of... well...character.

[SpunkyMonkey]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

In case anyone can't understand how someone might dislike silent protagonists in otherwise fully voiced games, here's what it feels like to play such games to me.

Imagine you're sitting on the couch in your living room. There is a movie playing on the TV in which everyone except the hero speaks normally. When the hero's turn to speak comes, the movie pauses on its own. Then you have to look down into your lap, and read the script. Then the movie resumes as normal. Repeat hundreds of times.  It's jarring, it kills any momentum a scene has dead in its tracks, breaks up pacing, forces a somewhat passive protagonist, and is - as others have said - simply bizarre.  

As long as everyone else in the game speaks, I want my protagonist to speak. If nobody else speaks, I don't want my protagonist to either. So when folks say, "RPGs shouldn't be interactive movies" I don't really empathize for one reason, I've always thought of them as either interactive books (see Baldur's Gate) or interactive movies, and I'm bothered when it occupies some clumsy inconsistent middle ground so many people seem to love.

But you have to do that anyway for a voiced protagonist, the only difference is after you've "looked down to your lap and read the script" it is acted out on-screen (and in the process repeated).

If anything I'd say that this makes less sense than having a voiceless protagonist as you have to repeat the protagonist's line..........

Bad guy - "I'm gonna smash your face in!"
*Reads options* ............"No you're not" --- "Yes you are, please let me go" --- "Your momma!"
*Selects "No you're not"*
Protagonist shouts "No you're not!"
Bag guy responds "Have it!"

It seems bizare to read the line once and then have it repeated, often in a different way to which you intended it.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 27 novembre 2012 - 09:19 .

[Allan Schumacher]

2) Yes, if a game gives me the option to do something stupid and I do something stupid, I'd like to be punished for it. Actions should have consequences and not all consequences have to be nice ones.

Take your example of Cullen leading a mage Hawke to the Gallows. I see no problem with that. There's an autosave whenever you enter a new area, so the player will probably only lose a few minutes of time. Moreover, it means that not only are you getting class based content (presumably only mages get that line) but the game is reinforcing the lore of the world.

I'm a big fan of this too. I think we should be more open to it.

[Xewaka]

Maria Caliban wrote...
2) Yes, if a game gives me the option to do something stupid and I do something stupid, I'd like to be punished for it. Actions should have consequences and not all consequences have to be nice ones.

Case in point: Morinth.

[upsettingshorts]

By the way, if anyone wants to know "just how bad would paraphrases have to get for upsettingshorts to hate them as much as I do" the answer is NBA 2k13 MyCareer mode.

Reporter: "You scored 31 points today, was that the result of the matchups or were you just in the zone?"

Paraphrase: "I can score 30 against anybody." [No tone icon, just "B"]

Full line: "It doesn't matter who is out there against me, I'm going to get my 30, and if my teammates would actually pick up the slack maybe we'll win next time."

If my player is going to publicly **** all over his teammates in a press conference, I'd like a heads up.  If there had been a "prima donna" icon next to that option, I probably wouldn't have taken it.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 novembre 2012 - 10:28 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

In case anyone can't understand how someone might dislike silent protagonists in otherwise fully voiced games, here's what it feels like to play such games to me.

Imagine you're sitting on the couch in your living room. There is a movie playing on the TV in which everyone except the hero speaks normally. When the hero's turn to speak comes, the movie pauses on its own. Then you have to look down into your lap, and read the script. Then the movie resumes as normal. Repeat hundreds of times.  It's jarring, it kills any momentum a scene has dead in its tracks, breaks up pacing, forces a somewhat passive protagonist, and is - as others have said - simply bizarre.  

As long as everyone else in the game speaks, I want my protagonist to speak. If nobody else speaks, I don't want my protagonist to either. So when folks say, "RPGs shouldn't be interactive movies" I don't really empathize for one reason, I've always thought of them as either interactive books (see Baldur's Gate) or interactive movies, and I'm bothered when it occupies some clumsy inconsistent middle ground so many people seem to love.

Then 

1. Turn to fully established protagonist with fully established personality. Scrapped character creation screen. Character creation has no meaning in this setting.

2. Scrap dialogues option. Let the protagonist speak out automatically. It's pointless to speak for the protagonist. Your "interactiion" with the game are solely for moving the character, activating objects, unlock new areas and skills  and combat.

3. Do not bother with choices and consequences. Let the story play out by itself.

4. Never point out that the character is you in marketing, for example,

Embark on an all-new adventure spread across a ten-year span of years with an all-new hero in the multiple award-winning Dragon Age saga. In Dragon Age II you are Hawke, said to have been one of the few to survive the destruction of your homeland. Forced to fight for survival, you gathered the deadliest of allies, amassed fame and fortune and sealed your place in history, eventually becoming in effect a legend in your own time. But legends are all in the telling.

Revel in the epic sequel to the 2009 Game of the Year, Dragon Age: Origins.
View larger.

Dragon Age II utilizes a nonlinear narrative, taking the form of a story-within-a-story that hinges upon your exploits as told by the storyteller, Varick. Yet like any good storyteller, Varick tends to exaggerate from time to time. When questioned on events related to Hawke, Varick may present a different scenario in which Hawke's exploits play out. It is within these replays that the decisions of the players hold sway, as their particular versions of Hawke relive these events. Is the player's particular version of Hawke, male or female? A warrior, a rogue, or a mage? Is Hawke good-natured or something less than a salt-of-the-Earth type? Is romance in the air amongst characters he/she associates with? These choices are all the player's to make and each affect the the outcome of the story at all levels.

http://www.amazon.co...c/dp/B0047THYWC

It's misleading.  There is no such thing as "you are the character" in interactive movie or book. You and I both that know that. In interactive movie or book environment ,you are nothing but an omniscient third person observer behind the screen. 

5. Adopt other interactive movie games design philosophy like Final Fantasy. I'm sure it will pleased many movies fans to "directed outside the story, Watch more and play less".  JRPG, external roleplaying is famous for that and the reason why it deserve it's own subgenre within the RPG-Lite genre. Sure it's roleplaying too. A different form of roleplaying.

That's interactive movie and book for me. 

I  have nothing against voiced protagonist, but if you want to do it, do it right. The right thing is, we do not commnuciate with only subtle, humourous and aggressive selection tones in real life. We control our pitch in so much varieties ways or we could sound monotonously despite any condition. Hey that's what make us unique and not standard cinematic AI actor in video games. 

I have nothing against paraphrased dialogue. But if you want to do it, do it right. In real communication, we are the one who make those paraphrased context in our head, hence we always know what to say. In video games, we do not create those paraphrased context or intent but merely selected from list of options, hence we could never know exactly what to say.

I have nothing against dialogue wheel, but when you say it was designed to accomodote more options and better organization, I expect to see the result of it - more dialogue options. Otherwise do not bother with dialogue wheel.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 27 novembre 2012 - 10:24 .

[upsettingshorts]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

1. Turn to fully established protagonist with fully established personality. Scrapped character creation screen. Character creation has no meaning in this setting.

2. Scrap dialogues option. Let the protagonist speak out automatically. It's pointless to speak for the protagonist. Your "interactiion" with the game are solely for moving the character, activating objects, unlock new areas and skills  and combat.

This is pure hyperbole.  We do not share the same qualifications for what constitutes satisfactory roleplaying in a cRPG and we never did, regardless of what dialogue system is present.  Your preferences are not the law, neither are mine, but just because yours are unmet does not mean a game might as well not even try to appeal to mine.

What you consider roleplaying I genuinely believe single cRPGs cannot do, never did, and should never attempt to accomplish because it will fail categorically because - to my standards - it always has.  If a choice exists in a cRPG that the game does not acknowledge, I do not believe the choice exists.  Yet every single choice - no matter how minute - I can make whose consequences I can witness in a cRPG has value to me.  Including how the character looks, because I can see them.

If I want to truly experience freedom of choice as you or Sylvius or significant parts of the forum assert Origins and games like it allowed you to imagine, I have to play with other humans.  Period.  

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

3. Do not bother with choices and consequences. Let the story play out by itself. 

This has nothing to do with the dialogue system.  In any respects that are relevant, my response is covered in the rest of the post.

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

4. Never point out that the character is you in marketing, for example,

It's misleading.  There is no such thing as "you are the character" in interactive movie or book. You and I both that know that. In interactive movie or book environment ,you are nothing but an omniscient third person observer behind the screen.

Semantics.  

In addition, not everyone plays a self-insert character - if I recall correctly - as you do and would likewise dispute the use of the term "you" in this context as being literal, even if they disagree with me about everything else I've said.

If anything, this forum is far more likely to question the nature of Hawke's story ("Rise to power") than the pronouns utilized in describing it.

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...


5. Adopt other interactive movie games design philosophy like Final Fantasy. I'm sure it will pleased many movies fans to "directed outside the story, Watch more and play less".  JRPG, external roleplaying is famous for that and the reason why it deserve it's own subgenre within the RPG-Lite genre. Sure it's roleplaying too. A different form of roleplaying.

That's interactive movie and book for me. 

You're assuming I acknowledge or accept this "proper cRPG" and "interactive movie JRPG" divide.  I do not.

All single player cRPGs are inherently interactive movie/books from my point of view, because they simply cannot be anything else, as they are pre-scripted to some degree in every case.  That isn't to say Final Fantasy and Baldur's Gate and Mass Effect are the same, just I measure them by different standards than you do.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 novembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
-snip

My response isn't about about CRPG or dialogue system or whatever craps you post. I response to your preferred style of treating a game as interactive movie or book. I would do the way you do if the game qualify 5 criterias I mention previously. Until then, I can't play DA franchise or BioWare games for that matter, the way you view..   

[upsettingshorts]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
-snip

My response isn't about about CRPG or dialogue system or whatever craps you post. I response to your preferred style of treating a game as interactive movie or book. I would do the way you do if the game qualify 5 criterias I mention previously. Until then, I can't play DA franchise or BioWare games for that matter, the way you view..   

Considering my 1st v. 3rd person perspective player argument routinely asserts that our play styles are not compatible, this is hardly surprising.

By the way:

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

whatever craps you post.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 novembre 2012 - 10:38 .

[sully.nathan]

http://www.ign.com/b...ialogue-trees-2 , would this option be good in a Bioware game.


MODEDIT:  That link contains a spoiler for The Walking Dead!  If you haven't played it, do not go to it!

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 29 novembre 2012 - 01:28 .

[Abramis brama]

They should just remove dialogue choices. They hardly do anything right now anyway. Just have a choices to do (spare someone or not) in some normal lines.
That would please everyone. Dialogue would be much smoother and you still would have choices.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Imagine you're sitting on the
couch in your living room. There is a movie playing on the TV in which
everyone except the hero speaks normally. When the hero's turn to speak
comes, the movie pauses on its own. Then you have to look down into
your lap, and read the script. Then the movie resumes as normal.
Repeat hundreds of times.  It's jarring, it kills any momentum a scene
has dead in its tracks, breaks up pacing, forces a somewhat passive
protagonist, and is - as others have said - simply bizarre.  

Exactly this. Removing dialogue choices would make the game much more movie like and the experience smooth and fluid without annoying immersion braking pauses.

Modifié par Abramis brama, 29 novembre 2012 - 12:12 .

[abnocte]

2) Yes, if a game gives me the option to do something stupid and I do something stupid, I'd like to be punished for it. Actions should have consequences and not all consequences have to be nice ones.

Take your example of Cullen leading a mage Hawke to the Gallows. I see no problem with that. There's an autosave whenever you enter a new area, so the player will probably only lose a few minutes of time. Moreover, it means that not only are you getting class based content (presumably only mages get that line) but the game is reinforcing the lore of the world.

I support this.
Especially if instead of having to reload we get a DA:O like "escape from prison" quest.

Abramis brama wrote...

They should just remove dialogue
choices. They hardly do anything right now anyway. Just have a choices
to do (spare someone or not) in some normal lines.
That would please everyone. Dialogue would be much smoother and you still would have choices.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Imagine you're sitting on the
couch in your living room. There is a movie playing on the TV in which
everyone except the hero speaks normally. When the hero's turn to speak
comes, the movie pauses on its own. Then you have to look down into
your lap, and read the script. Then the movie resumes as normal.
Repeat hundreds of times.  It's jarring, it kills any momentum a scene
has dead in its tracks, breaks up pacing, forces a somewhat passive
protagonist, and is - as others have said - simply bizarre.  

Exactly
this. Removing dialogue choices would make the game much more movie
like and the experience smooth and fluid without annoying immersion
braking pauses.

Movie-like games have been around since 3D technology has been accesible in videogames.
Just look to games like the Legacy of Kain series ( Soul Reaver & Blood Omen ), you have a predefined character with his own reasons and beliefs to move around inside the game's world. The only input the player ever gives is combat.
As much as I enjoyed the series and Raziel being told he is worthy by a giant squid while Kain was playing is own games, I will never consider it an RPG.

The loosest definition I can come up for a cRPG is a game where the player has input on the main character outside combat.

I want to give my input on no combat situations, so I will never expect a game that allows me to do so to play like a movie. It is just plain impossible for it to do so.


Regarding "choices"...
For me a "choice" is not necessaly the game showing one outcome or another depending on which dialogue options I picked, "choice" is also deciding what kind of character I'm playing.

You are not be able to stop Anders from blowing up the chantry, you can't avoid becoming a Grey Warden but how your character deals and reacts to those things are your "choice" ( among the ones given to you by the game ).

For me dialogue in itself is part of the gameplay.
I want to choose how the main character reacts to the world around him/her, to do so I need to know not only how s/he expresses him/herself ( wheel icons ) but what his/her beliefs are.

Paraphrasing obfuscates the character beliefs, the dialogue tree did not.
Full text dialogue obfuscates/ignores the way the character expresses him/herself, the dialogue wheel does not.

Why can we get the best of both?

And as someone who plays with subtitles on I fail to see a problem with reading and hearing what the characters say.

[batlin]

I think this topic calls for this