363 réponses à ce sujet

[FeralJester616]

whateverman7 wrote...

i disagree because of all the mods, equip, etc. available in the game that you can put on weapons, they are buffed already in a sense...are they as powerful as the harrier? no, but they are effective on any level of difficulty...if people dont wanna use them because they dont score as many points with other weapons like they do the harrier, that's on them, but doesnt mean the guns arent balanced/useful/effective....

Lets look at this a little shall we?
Taking similar mods and equipment on the Tempest (Uncommon SMG) and the Pheaston (Uncommon AR).
Using the Turian Marksman Soldier as the comparison class at first, you will find that the Tempest comes out on top in terms of effectiveness against any enemy. 

Now look at the same weapons on any other class and you will find the same thing, because of the weight and the DPS of both weapons the Tempest is just a better choice in every way. I personally don't use the SMGs, They just don't feel right in my hands so I don't enjoy my time. I know I'm more effective with the SMGs over the ARs, but I have more fun with the ARs so they get my vote.

All the ARs but the Harrier and the PPR need a damage buff or they need their weight reduced.
Only fair way to deal with the Harriers dominance. 

Modifié par FeralJester616, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:10 .

[JGDD]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...


Oh trust me, I do not want the Harrier to get ****** pounded like the Krysae did. But it has few drawbacks now whereas a vast majority of the current weapons make you choose carefully based on personal preferences and kit being used.

Weight increase is one viable option as others have mentioned. RoF another though it's not bad as it stands now IMO. I think clip size (not total rounds carried) could be reduced some.

The nerf that makes the most sense would be switching the Recoil from out of cover/in cover.

That's not much of a penalty but it does make for a tactical change in how it is used. I like it.

[LeandroBraz]

Am I the only one that don't give a damn about how fast the harrier kill, and almost don't use her?

[Schachmatt123]

Ammo count does not balance this at all. I've watched numerous players able to deftly move from one ammo crate to another while consistantly downing anything stupid enough to run in front of the player sporting a Harrier. No matter what kit was being used.

The rest of the UR's you mentioned all have some sort of drawback vs. the Harrier. The Indra doesn't hit as hard as the Harrier. The Talon and Paladin have small clips and demand a premium for landed shots or suffer if you miss. The Scorpion can be a sure fire reminder that you may want to host when using it as well as know that it takes a second for the rounds to detonate unless you're shooting at feet. The Saber is heavy and slow firing limiting your choices for genuine effectiveness.

Are you honestly saying that because some people don't know how to move around a battlefield or use consumables that it makes the weapon balanced?

Wrong again. Just because you don't know how to use these weapons I mentioned does not mean that they have  issues. I don't see any downside with them at all. I hardly use the harrier as my arsenal has far better solutions for nearly any situation and class.

So it's the same old story after all. Some players can use the harrier with great effect (as any other weapon too, btw.) so it needs to be nerfed. Yes, yes. It's boring. Most people suck with this weapon, that's the truth.

Modifié par Schachmatt, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:17 .

[N7Kopper]

whateverman7 wrote...

St3v3H wrote...

Then stop putting it on the Ghost and drop armor Ammo 3 or 4

What I'm trying to say though is that if you search for a bit you find a nerf thread on everything that puts out a little bit of damage. I just feel that people spend way too much time thinking about what stuff needs nerfs. Just play that game we all enjoy and go for variety. I never play more than twice with the same class/loadout and that is what makes the game exciting for me.

that part is so true...people add all the mods to a weapon, use a character that makes it even more powerful, then have the nerve to call the weapon overpowered lol...

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CombinatorialExplosion (damn it BSN stop linking me to social.bioware.com/tvtropes) If something can be modded to be overpowered, it's still overpowered. What matters is how other things, modded in their best ways, compete with it.
I got the Harrier on N7 day - and I do have to say it feels wrong that a Harrier I can utterly obsolete a Mattock VI, no matter what rarity they are. (I feel that rarity is in-universe anyway, exhibit A: volus) The Harrier is basically a autoMattock with several small drawbacks, but I can virtually guarantee that a competent player won't run dry on ammo more than five times (you know, clip packs) without being able to easily resupply. And weight isn't an issue on the classes that are meant to use heavy assault rifles in the first place.
Not that it's utterly gamebreaking, but it blows the other (actually quite useful, stop complaining so much) ARs out of the water. The Typhoon and Mattock are two of my all-time favourites from a designer's perspective, not just because they're good, but also because you can feel the drawbacks in-play. Just throwing that out there.

Modifié par N7Kopper, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:16 .

[DarkseidXIII]

No more nerf/buffs. The artillery is fine as is. U.R.s were costly to obtain, of course they are better.

[N7Kopper]

DarkseidXIII wrote...

No more nerf/buffs. The artillery is fine as is. U.R.s were costly to obtain, of course they are better.

That line of thinking is just plain eww.
Why should I get lucky and suddenly obsolete half my guns? It's just boring.

[JGDD]

Schachmatt wrote...

Ammo count does not balance this at all. I've watched numerous players able to deftly move from one ammo crate to another while consistantly downing anything stupid enough to run in front of the player sporting a Harrier. No matter what kit was being used.

The rest of the UR's you mentioned all have some sort of drawback vs. the Harrier. The Indra doesn't hit as hard as the Harrier. The Talon and Paladin have small clips and demand a premium for landed shots or suffer if you miss. The Scorpion can be a sure fire reminder that you may want to host when using it as well as know that it takes a second for the rounds to detonate unless you're shooting at feet. The Saber is heavy and slow firing limiting your choices for genuine effectiveness.

Are you honestly saying that because some people don't know how to move around a battlefield or use consumables that it makes the weapon balanced?

Wrong again. Just because you don't know how to use these weapons I mentioned does not mean that they have any issue at all. I hardly use the harrier as my arsenal has far better solutions for nearly any situation and class.

So it's the same old story after all. Some players can use the harrier with great effect (as any other weapon too, btw.) so it needs to be nerfed. Yes, yes. It's boring. Most people suck with this weapon, that's the truth.

What makes you think I suck with those weapons? The point was showing their drawbacks. I happen to be fond of all those you mentioned - barring the Paladin which I can make work with the right setup. My current favorite weapon is the Eagle V. It works well on a lot of characters without being cheap while forcing you to make concise choices in game.

[Schachmatt123]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

The nerf that makes the most sense would be switching the Recoil from out of cover/in cover.

That's not much of a penalty but it does make for a tactical change in how it is used. I like it.

That would be a bugfix, not a nerf

[me0120]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

The nerf that makes the most sense would be switching the Recoil from out of cover/in cover.

This is the only fair solution I have heard. 

[QU67]

Buffing the over AR's would be great. But nerfing the Harrier... that's too far. It's an Ultra Rare, it should be awesome.

[Schachmatt123]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...
What makes you think I suck with those weapons? The point was showing their drawbacks. I happen to be fond of all those you mentioned - barring the Paladin which I can make work with the right setup. My current favorite weapon is the Eagle V. It works well on a lot of characters without being cheap while forcing you to make concise choices in game.

Sigh. I did not say you suck - you just don't know imo how to use them properly if you see any drawback that would make the harrier a better choice. The harrier has a drawback, too. It's is tiny magazin and very sparse spare ammo. You say there are solutions to solve this undeniable fact? There are simple solutions for the other weapons 'drawbacks', too.

[FeralJester616]

Schachmatt wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

The nerf that makes the most sense would be switching the Recoil from out of cover/in cover.

That's not much of a penalty but it does make for a tactical change in how it is used. I like it.

That would be a bugfix, not a nerf

Indeed, you add the fact that when fired out of cover it fires like it should in cover to the fact that in all other ways it is balanced, then you got a OP weapon. Fix the bug, fix the weapon. Simple. 

Modifié par FeralJester616, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:33 .

[whateverman7]

FeralJester616 wrote...

Lets look at this a little shall we?
Taking similar mods and equipment on the Tempest (Uncommon SMG) and the Pheaston (Uncommon AR).
Using the Turian Marksman Soldier as the comparison class at first, you will find that the Tempest comes out on top in terms of effectiveness against any enemy. 

Now look at the same weapons on any other class and you will find the same thing, because of the weight and the DPS of both weapons the Tempest is just a better choice in every way. I personally don't use the SMGs, They just don't feel right in my hands so I don't enjoy my time. I know I'm more effective with the SMGs over the ARs, but I have more fun with the ARs so they get my vote.

All the ARs but the Harrier and the PPR need a damage buff or they need their weight reduced.
Only fair way to deal with the Harriers dominance. 

just stop, the tempest is not better than the phaeston...besides weight, the phaeston is better than the tempest in every way...i see you also mentioned dps.....well, that's a useless spreadsheet stat that people on here like to throw around to justify whether a weapon is good or not...dps means nothing...

ARs are my fav gun to use in any game...if they were horrible, i'd be the first to agree with yall...the ARs in this game arent horrible....

[whateverman7]

N7Kopper wrote...

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CombinatorialExplosion (damn it BSN stop linking me to social.bioware.com/tvtropes) If something can be modded to be overpowered, it's still overpowered. What matters is how other things, modded in their best ways, compete with it.
I got the Harrier on N7 day - and I do have to say it feels wrong that a Harrier I can utterly obsolete a Mattock VI, no matter what rarity they are. (I feel that rarity is in-universe anyway, exhibit A: volus) The Harrier is basically a autoMattock with several small drawbacks, but I can virtually guarantee that a competent player won't run dry on ammo more than five times (you know, clip packs) without being able to easily resupply. And weight isn't an issue on the classes that are meant to use heavy assault rifles in the first place.
Not that it's utterly gamebreaking, but it blows the other (actually quite useful, stop complaining so much) ARs out of the water. The Typhoon and Mattock are two of my all-time favourites from a designer's perspective, not just because they're good, but also because you can feel the drawbacks in-play. Just throwing that out there.

yes, the harrier 1 is a great gun, but it's not better than a leveled up mattock...only thing the harrier has on the mattock is it's automatic...which is cool, cause that's what it's advertised as....the con to that? having less ammo, which is cool.....and trust me, you do feel the drawback of low ammo when using the harrier, especially on waves 6-10....

also, rarity does matter...the harder to get guns should be better than guns that are easily gotten....and although the harrier is a great gun, it doesnt blow the other ARs outta the water....the reason it's popular: it's the easiest to score a lot of points with compared to other ARs (which is what all this boils down to)

[JGDD]

Schachmatt wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...
What makes you think I suck with those weapons? The point was showing their drawbacks. I happen to be fond of all those you mentioned - barring the Paladin which I can make work with the right setup. My current favorite weapon is the Eagle V. It works well on a lot of characters without being cheap while forcing you to make concise choices in game.

Sigh. I did not say you suck - you just don't know imo how to use them properly if you see any drawback that would make the harrier a better choice. The harrier has a drawback, too. It's is tiny magazin and very sparse spare ammo. You say there are solutions to solve this undeniable fact? There are simple solutions for the other weapons 'drawbacks', too.

*sigh*

I do know how to use them and plan accordingly because they have their faults and I never pick the Harrier over them. Ever. The magazine size of the Harrier is not huge a setback to any class. Weapons based classes typically have strong shields and secondary offensive powers plus the ability to carry a sidearm. Casters, while thinner skinned, have some of the strongest powers in the game and can easily fallback to using those skills with virtually no penalties while carrying a Harrier and making it to an ammo crate.

[FeralJester616]

whateverman7 wrote...

FeralJester616 wrote...

Lets look at this a little shall we?
Taking similar mods and equipment on the Tempest (Uncommon SMG) and the Pheaston (Uncommon AR).
Using the Turian Marksman Soldier as the comparison class at first, you will find that the Tempest comes out on top in terms of effectiveness against any enemy. 

Now look at the same weapons on any other class and you will find the same thing, because of the weight and the DPS of both weapons the Tempest is just a better choice in every way. I personally don't use the SMGs, They just don't feel right in my hands so I don't enjoy my time. I know I'm more effective with the SMGs over the ARs, but I have more fun with the ARs so they get my vote.

All the ARs but the Harrier and the PPR need a damage buff or they need their weight reduced.
Only fair way to deal with the Harriers dominance. 

just stop, the tempest is not better than the phaeston...besides weight, the phaeston is better than the tempest in every way...i see you also mentioned dps.....well, that's a useless spreadsheet stat that people on here like to throw around to justify whether a weapon is good or not...dps means nothing...

ARs are my fav gun to use in any game...if they were horrible, i'd be the first to agree with yall...the ARs in this game arent horrible....

If you look at my post again, you find that at no point do I say that ARs are horrible.
Just that in terms of effectivness there is almost always a better choice. 
In terms of feel however I will always take an AR.
Its just that for the weight they need to be buffed. Don't believe me? Test the TuriSol with just a Tempest and then test it with the Pheaston. Tempest outclasses the Pheaston, but the Pheaston is more fun...

[Atheosis]

whateverman7 wrote...
just stop, the tempest is not better than the phaeston...besides weight, the phaeston is better than the tempest in every way...

LOL, no it's not...

[FeralJester616]

Atheosis wrote...

whateverman7 wrote...
just stop, the tempest is not better than the phaeston...besides weight, the phaeston is better than the tempest in every way...

LOL, no it's not...

Is that someone seeing the truth?

On BSN?

I'm shocked...

[whateverman7]

FeralJester616 wrote...

If you look at my post again, you find that at no point do I say that ARs are horrible.
Just that in terms of effectivness there is almost always a better choice. 
In terms of feel however I will always take an AR.
Its just that for the weight they need to be buffed. Don't believe me? Test the TuriSol with just a Tempest and then test it with the Pheaston. Tempest outclasses the Pheaston, but the Pheaston is more fun...

never said you said they were horrible, but that's the overall feel going on
if the AR gets the job done, it's effective....the word you looking for is efficient....in either case, it's not true
i've used both weapons plenty of times, no it doesnt

[whateverman7]

Atheosis wrote...

LOL, no it's not...

what's so funny?....i've used both plenty of times....but since you know something i dont, besides weight, in what way(s) is the tempest better than the phaeston?

[whateverman7]

FeralJester616 wrote...

Is that someone seeing the truth?

On BSN?

I'm shocked...

prove this truth

[Atheosis]

whateverman7 wrote...

FeralJester616 wrote...

If you look at my post again, you find that at no point do I say that ARs are horrible.
Just that in terms of effectivness there is almost always a better choice. 
In terms of feel however I will always take an AR.
Its just that for the weight they need to be buffed. Don't believe me? Test the TuriSol with just a Tempest and then test it with the Pheaston. Tempest outclasses the Pheaston, but the Pheaston is more fun...

never said you said they were horrible, but that's the overall feel going on
if the AR gets the job done, it's effective....the word you looking for is efficient....in either case, it's not true
i've used both weapons plenty of times, no it doesnt

I'm seriously trying to think of any logical reason for why a person would conclude that the Phaeston is better than the Tempest, especially factoring in weight, and I'm coming up with nothing.

[Atheosis]

whateverman7 wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

LOL, no it's not...

what's so funny?....i've used both plenty of times....but since you know something i dont, besides weight, in what way(s) is the tempest better than the phaeston?

The Tempest deals better damage while having comparable accuracy.  It has more muzzle climb, but not so much that it can't be easily compensated for.  With the weight difference it's really obvious which gun is better.  The Phaeston feels more powerful, but that is an illusion.

Modifié par Atheosis, 25 novembre 2012 - 09:19 .

[ToaOrka]

I was about to punch you in the dick until I read all of the OP.

A lot of ARs become irrelevant no matter what level they are once the Harrier comes into play.