363 réponses à ce sujet

[TerraNomad]

This is the appropriate manner to increase weapon variety in multiplayer. Don't nerf all the good weapons, that only makes the list of viable weapons shorter.

And this may label me as an extremist in terms of my idea of balancing but, it is in my belief that EVERY weapon should be Gold viable. Not that I mean the weapon should carry you through gold matches (as my beloved Harrier can do.) I simply mean that combined with an intelligent build every weapon should be useable. This however is not the case. Typically it requires almost an entire clip of some rifles to kill a generic enemy on Gold. This leaves those same weapons absolutely useless when the advanced enemies start spawning.

So give all the guns that are receiving minimal use a minor buff to their stats. See how this affects the gameplay for a couple weeks, and adjust as noted.

I certainly do not want the idea to get out there that the Harrier needs nerfing.And in that vein I agree with the title choice of "balance." If every other weapon was just a little bit more useful, it'd be less of a necessity on assault classes. For a Gold run as a soldier, I can't really use anything else to be helpful for my team. I can sometimes run a Turian Weapon Master build (courtesy of our beloved Stardust) with a Revenant if I have enough consumable buffs but when I run dry of items I have to go with the Harrier. It just flat-out outclasses all the competition. Which is somewhat of a shame because I have a love of running RP builds like using Phaeston on my Turian classes or a Kishock on my Batarians. It's just a little bit of added fun to try different weapons. But I can't do that on combatant classes when there's no good mid-range equipment. The SMG's are okay but none of them can match a decent assault rifle for damage consistency.

[Computron2000]

GroverA125 wrote...
When I refer to classes that don't need to worry about cooldowns, I'm not referring to classes such as the Turian soldier or the Vorcha, I'm directing it literally to any class which lives of a 200% cooldown, by which I mean the majority of adepts, vanguards and engineers (with around half of the sentinels in there too). Any combat class will not be affected whatsoever by the Harriers weight, as the output they get is far greater than the loss of power recharge speed.

Which is precisely why i mentioned "half or more" as your statement was full of hyperbole. Basically you're saying this

"The Harrier is the immediate go-to weapon of the game for soldiers, infilitrators and a few sentinels"

rather than your attempted hyperbolic original of

"The Harrier is the immediate go-to weapon of the game for any class that doesn't need recharge speeds or single-fire weapons"

That is also the reason i specifically mentioned the evo6 sniper infilitrators which takes a large chunk out of your case. Also i did not mention the shotgun infilitrators who surprisingly don't use the harrier so yet another large chunk gone. This is also the reason i mentioned that the true "weight is no issue" classes is hardly all going for a harrier which again takes chunks out of your case for several soldiers and those few sentinels.

All added up, your statement is actually

"The Harrier is the immediate go-to weapon of the game for 50% of soldiers (being generous here), 1/3 of the infilitrators (again being generous here) and a less than a quarter of few sentinels (if its even 25%)"

GroverA125 wrote...
As for weapons losing use because of our dear Harrier (note: I forgot to add "and assault rifles" to that sentence):

• *snipped list of 14 total of ARs, snipers, smgs etc*
  

Probably a couple more I've missed as well. Nothing can fill the same amount of niches so well, the harrier is literally the swiss-army rifle (throw it anywhere with anyone and it'll still do good). Much like the Carnifex was. To answer the last part of your question (I already did in my first post, I'll repeat it), the Harrier's only downside is that you need to be near an ammo box. Most people stick close to them anyway, so the con is significantly less major than it should be. An avenger has terrible damage, thereby limiting its use completely in comparison to other weapons, which can do any job the avenger can, better.

First, i count 55 weapons. You listed 14. So this issue apparently concerns 25% of the weapons with no concern for their type so implication is that auto SRs, SMGs, ARs, whatever should all fufill the same function with no regards for differences in weight, handling, magazine, etc.

Secondly, your entire lists keeps listing damage, damage, damage. So apparently your problem is damage. And of those listed, commons and uncommons show up as well. So common/uncommon weapons (maxed by 5k recuit packs and 20k vet packs) should have the same damage as URs

Now let me ask you this. If the avenger and the harrier was the same, WHY should i unlock anything? The first weapon in my soldier's hands is already good to go for gold. Some recruit packs later and i'm platinum capable. So why should i care about any of the others?

Modifié par Computron2000, 26 novembre 2012 - 12:10 .

[hostaman]

The easiest way to blanace the Harrier would be to delete it from the game.

If it really is the only decent AR (which it isn't) and it's way OP, then simply remove it and balance is restored?

As many, many have pointed out, the Harrier IS balanced becuse of it's weight and small clip.

With Caster classes where you typically only want one weapon, the Harrier is often no good due to weight and aforeemtioned clip size. On ammo eaters like the Destroyer and Turian Soldier it just doesn't last.

If you're trying to play every character with the Harrier then I'm afraid you're missing out. The Revenant, Valkyrie, and the Falcon etc. all have thier niche. It's just a case of practice with different characters to find it.

A good way to find the different weapons sweet spots is to do the Challenges which force you to persevere with weapons you would normally discount.

Leave the Harrier alone, ottherwise our friends at BW will see your smoke signals and nerf it into oblivion.

[joker_jack]

hostaman wrote...

The easiest way to blanace the Harrier would be to delete it from the game.

If it really is the only decent AR (which it isn't) and it's way OP, then simply remove it and balance is restored?

As many, many have pointed out, the Harrier IS balanced becuse of it's weight and small clip.

With Caster classes where you typically only want one weapon, the Harrier is often no good due to weight and aforeemtioned clip size. On ammo eaters like the Destroyer and Turian Soldier it just doesn't last.

If you're trying to play every character with the Harrier then I'm afraid you're missing out. The Revenant, Valkyrie, and the Falcon etc. all have thier niche. It's just a case of practice with different characters to find it.

A good way to find the different weapons sweet spots is to do the Challenges which force you to persevere with weapons you would normally discount.

Leave the Harrier alone, ottherwise our friends at BW will see your smoke signals and nerf it into oblivion.

A few are trying to make the harrier out to be another krysae, whichare  nowhere in the same ball park. The thing is AR"s are in the boat snipers were a few months back. In this case we have 3 or 4 good ar's and then crap like the gpr or car. You have to make the other ar's perform at a better level than they currently do. 

Thankfully most of nerf loving elitist idiot ******* have gone back to thier blackhole that is CoD. The nerfing threads were way worse a few months back.

[Fixx21]

No ! NerfDuck !!

[Alijah Green]

you should feel dirty for making this thread. Because everyone is using it. Get over yourself.

[andrew688k]

I really hope there will be more good AR in the future, on-par with Harrier. Maybe they can start with the typhoon?

[ryanshowseason3]

Fixx21 wrote...

No ! NerfDuck !!

Is this in response to the OP and topic title? I assume it is.

You either didn't read or have no reading comprehension.

OP's post supported buffing all ARs to be in line with Harrier.

Congratulations on your steaming pile of failure.

[millahnna]

Fixx21 wrote...

No ! NerfDuck !!

I'm so sick of this stupid "insult" to nerfers.  Even when I disagree with a nerf suggestion (which this thread is not), the second someone busts out this particularly childish sounding word, I inherently want to support whatever they hate.  Seriously, it sounds bloody illiterate.

[GroverA125]

This is getting tedious.

The Harrier clearly has better effect than most other weapons in the game. It has the highest DPS of all ARs, moderate accuracy, usable recoil, average weight (for an AR). All at the cost of a low ammo count. The majority of players will position themselves within close proximity of an ammo box, usually taking no longer than 15 seconds to get to the box, load up and get back into position. Players are also given up to 5 resupplies which they can use at will, and there are even classes and gear available which can increase the amount of ammo available.

Resupplying just isn't that much of an issue. A javelin has ammo problems, and requires ammo runs every minute or so. The javelin has a lot of damage, however it is also one of the heaviest weapons in the game, has an inconveniently high zoom scope, a short charge-up time on each shot, loses a large amount of damage via shield gating and also loses a significant amount of damage when fired without the scope. That is a fair price for the amount of power it has (around 630 base at level X with optimized reload cancelling). The Harrier has a significantly lesser problem (it can take out a lot more people before running empty) and yet has higher DPS (910 at level X with perfect reload cancelling). The Harrier has just shy of 45% more DPS than a weapon with a list of cons and significantly greater limitations in terms of ammo (heavily significant at level 1 of both weapons).

The Harrier is just too good for what it is. I think that the only way of balancing it without heavily changing its primary intended niche and functionality would be to lower the damage to more reasonable levels.

[grayrest]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

So how do we balance such a fantastic weapon and make it so other assault rifles are in the same "ball field" as the Harrier?

I vote we nerf the Harier RoF back down to Mattock levels and up its reserve ammo as some compensation then buff the Revanant to the Harrier's previous dps while increasing its weight to 200. The result is that you need to choose between accuracy and ease of use and dps, a novel concept.

[IllusiveManJr]

Harrier doesn't need to be nerfed.

[Jelena Jankovic]

Why does everybody want all weapons to be equal for all classes

we may as well just all play with our common weapons at this rate

(yes I know the OP here doesn't want a nerf..but many do)

Modifié par Jelena Jankovic, 27 novembre 2012 - 10:38 .

[Upfunkt]

Damage buffs to every other assault rifle. Decrease weight of some of the heftier non-ultra rares. Problem solved.