363 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlepope190]

Harrier is garbage anyway, so they can nerf it to the ground for all I care.

[St3v3H]

sammerz wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

Why does everything have to be equal? Why does it bother people that a bunch of players like to use the harrier?  (...).

Because Harrier is, right now, "Easy Mode ON". It is NOT balanced.

Way too much damage, quite stable as well (so damn easy to headshot with it).

You haven't answered his question... Not every gun has to be equal, it an UR gun so it is supposed to do more damage than other AR. The PPR does alot of damage too and so does the Saber. If you feel its easy mode for you there are a million other guns to choose from, enjoy and have fun with.

[JGDD]

St3v3H wrote...

sammerz wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

Why does everything have to be equal? Why does it bother people that a bunch of players like to use the harrier?  (...).

Because Harrier is, right now, "Easy Mode ON". It is NOT balanced.

Way too much damage, quite stable as well (so damn easy to headshot with it).

You haven't answered his question... Not every gun has to be equal, it an UR gun so it is supposed to do more damage than other AR. The PPR does alot of damage too and so does the Saber. If you feel its easy mode for you there are a million other guns to choose from, enjoy and have fun with.

A bunch of people liked to use the Krysae pre-nerf, too. Did that make it undeserving of a nerf because it was a popular choice?

[rtbh99]

St3v3H wrote...

sammerz wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

Why does everything have to be equal? Why does it bother people that a bunch of players like to use the harrier?  (...).

Because Harrier is, right now, "Easy Mode ON". It is NOT balanced.

Way too much damage, quite stable as well (so damn easy to headshot with it).

You haven't answered his question... Not every gun has to be equal, it an UR gun so it is supposed to do more damage than other AR. The PPR does alot of damage too and so does the Saber. If you feel its easy mode for you there are a million other guns to choose from, enjoy and have fun with.

you say this but do you use other weapons

[taplonaplo]

St3v3H wrote...

sammerz wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

Why does everything have to be equal? Why does it bother people that a bunch of players like to use the harrier?  (...).

Because Harrier is, right now, "Easy Mode ON". It is NOT balanced.

Way too much damage, quite stable as well (so damn easy to headshot with it).

You haven't answered his question... Not every gun has to be equal, it an UR gun so it is supposed to do more damage than other AR. The PPR does alot of damage too and so does the Saber. If you feel its easy mode for you there are a million other guns to choose from, enjoy and have fun with.

Noone is suggesting that the Harrier should be Krysaed to oblivion, so it'll be equal to the avenger. I just want a change that incentivises variety when it comes to ARs.

For a good example look at snipers, pistols or shotguns. I'm willing to bet that a poll about which is the best weapon in its respective category would net more mixed results, even among "good" players. As for the ARs, with a few exceptions it should be the harrier on any kit. And as it's been pointed out by our resident god Jay, the Typhoon and the PPR are definitely not garbage tier.

Modifié par taplonaplo, 25 novembre 2012 - 07:35 .

[MrChris_CJ]

Having used a lot of the rifles, most of them are garbage, you need infinite patience to kill a lot of enemies and you just end up getting killed

I have been a long time user of the Saber and love it, for the sole reason that it rewards me for my ability to aim and its extremely satisfying to use, probably one of the best balanced ARs imo

The Typhoon, I've never really been able to make my mind up on, I feel it does the job well but perhaps slightly too heavy or slightly not enough damage but don't mind

The Harrier, I don't actually like as a weapon, beyond the fact that it takes no effort whatsoever to use, you just hold fire and away it goes, it doesn't reward me like the Saber does for accuracy and unlike the Typhoon where controlling that recoil is strangely fun (and this I am rewarded with a rambo esque feeling...AAHHHHHHHHHHHH), it often just feels cheap

that and I don't like running to ammo boxes every 2 seconds, alas I have found that given the garbage nature of a lot of the other ARs I still use it on a lot of classes, especially the Demolisher or Turian Ghost etc. It is a go to rifle, but I agree it is more because there are a lack of competing options in that area. Weapons like the Saber and Typhoon have to be played differently than the much more flexible and mobile Harrier

if only the revenant didnt suck perhaps

[Schachmatt123]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Schachmatt wrote...

This thread has been turned into a nerf thread shortly after the very first posts. So, it's yelling. And thank you, I'm well aware of biowares tendency to nerf one before to buff more than one. The harrier is not too powerful. It is a weapon with UR status and people need to open a lot of sp/psp's to get this weapon, not to mention getting it leveled to X. Take away 35% of it's damage as someone suggested in this very thread and it's a piece of useless junk. I'm sick of butthurt kids yelling for nerfs because the 'noob with the harrier' had outscored them. Or the vanguard has stolen their kills. Or whatever.

The harrier may not be too powerful in the traditional sense but it is undeniably a weapon without any faults. Which does make it too powerful. What is an honest downside to this weapon? It runs out of ammo fast? Not good enough since there's always an ammo crate within easy distance on every map of the game or a thermal clip on a pinch - regardless of difficulty setting.

UR status means nothing. There are a bunch of UR's in this game that cannot do as well as this one does with any class even at lower levels. There is no drawback to using this weapon.

Wrong again. The ammo issue balance this weapon. In order to not run out of ammo too fast the player has to land constant headshots. So it requires skill, yes. And yeeees, it's so easy to move from crate to crate when the map is flooded with hunters, pyros, primes, scions, praetorians, brutes ... And since when did people start to use ammo clip packs? Mostly I hear from harrier users the 'out of ammo' sample followed by rushing to the next crate - and then getting downed again.

And for UR status meaning nothing, what's wrong with the indra? Or the talon? Or the scorpion? Or the paladin? Or the saber? Or the ... ? Right, nothing. Easy usable with just any class. Some UR's are good allrounders, others are niche weapons.

[FeralJester616]

taplonaplo wrote...

Tell me, how does a cheater ruin your experience? I get that someone killstealing everything is not your idea of fun, but you are always free to leave the lobby. You don't ban PUGs for sucking, so what makes the cheater any different when he is not glitching? How is him getting weapons faster than you lower your fun with the game?

Harrier is not the only viable choice in it's category, PPR, Saber, Typhoon and the Falcon are all top notch choices with the right setup, but you can't just slap them on any character and rock the boat the same way you would with a harrier and a little effort with aiming.

The destroyer was overused, it got squashed (too hard if you ask me). The piranha was all too good, guess what happened to it. The claymore also hits like a truck, and yet it avoids the nerfhammer. Why? Because its drawbacks make it a choice with weaknesses as well. The harrier? Rock solid in every relevant aspect if you ask me. There's hardly any reason to pick almost any other weapon over the harrier other than your own personal preference, and i'm not just basing my view on in game experience, but numbers also support my claim.

Point 1: Cheaters ruin the experience by taking away any challenge and they can get you banned. I don't want to be banned so I ALWAYS leave if I realise someone is glitching/cheating. To do otherwise is just plain stupid IMO.

Point 2: The Harrier is the only true Assult Rifle. The Saber has more in common with the Sniper Rifles than the Assults and the Falcon is a Launcher not a Rifle. Its in the same class but its a totally different weapon.
The PPR is a beam weapon and the Typhoon is truely an LMG. Both need sustained fire to do any real damage, the damage can be great but it takes time. Then we get to the Harrier, yes it is over used, but thats because it is well balanced. You take any other Assult Rifle and there is always a better choice and with less weight, but the Harrier works. 
Higher than average weight and low ammo are the balancers here, infact the only problem with the Harrier is its stability. The in cover and out of cover recoil values need to be switched. That is it.

If you can't see that the Harrier is only popular because the rest of the ARs are poor choices then you're a fool and I have no time for you. Assult Rifle are ment to be the Primary Weapon of choice for weapon users, easy to use by anyone but hard to truely master. If you want a weapon that takes alot skill and finess, make the choice and pick a different weapon type yourself.
Don't ruin the one gun in a class that works the way it should.

Modifié par FeralJester616, 25 novembre 2012 - 07:49 .

[St3v3H]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

St3v3H wrote...

sammerz wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

Why does everything have to be equal? Why does it bother people that a bunch of players like to use the harrier?  (...).

Because Harrier is, right now, "Easy Mode ON". It is NOT balanced.

Way too much damage, quite stable as well (so damn easy to headshot with it).

You haven't answered his question... Not every gun has to be equal, it an UR gun so it is supposed to do more damage than other AR. The PPR does alot of damage too and so does the Saber. If you feel its easy mode for you there are a million other guns to choose from, enjoy and have fun with.

A bunch of people liked to use the Krysae pre-nerf, too. Did that make it undeserving of a nerf because it was a popular choice?

Right and what happened to that gun? it got nerfed to the point that it was hardly usable. I always have a hard time understanding that everyone is choosing the same gun just because its good. I used the Krysae once or twice before Bioware nerfed it and it didn't feel right so it switched to another weapon. We have alot of weapons to choose from and I think everyone has a different taste when it comes to them. I didn't scream nerf because alot of people used the Krysae just because alot of people liked that gun. I just played with the gun I enjoyed and let the others play with the guns of their choice.

The constant cry for nerfs on everything is really strange to me. But that is just how I feel. I'm happy with the way the game is

[St3v3H]

rtbh99 wrote...

St3v3H wrote...

sammerz wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

Why does everything have to be equal? Why does it bother people that a bunch of players like to use the harrier?  (...).

Because Harrier is, right now, "Easy Mode ON". It is NOT balanced.

Way too much damage, quite stable as well (so damn easy to headshot with it).

You haven't answered his question... Not every gun has to be equal, it an UR gun so it is supposed to do more damage than other AR. The PPR does alot of damage too and so does the Saber. If you feel its easy mode for you there are a million other guns to choose from, enjoy and have fun with.

you say this but do you use other weapons

Yes I do, I have alot of weapons I enjoy

[Colonel Sheppard]

I don't mind the Harrier the way it is. When I do play, I hardly ever touch that gun. Let the noobs have their fun. There are much better combos than a Harrier X. Some of them require more skills. Some of them requires insight that noobs will ignore to look into because the Harrier is so popular.

[Apl_Juice]

Making me move after I wreck a spawn of enemies is not a valid downside. Its a downside for a few play styles, but isnt balanced when you take in to account everything the Harrier can do.

PPR is a well balanced gun. For one, it has a downside that isn't ignorable, and does respectable damage when utilized correctly. Unlike the harrier, it does NOT instantly make any kit better.

The Typhoon is the weakest UR AR. It has a shorter wind up than the PPR, but its damage isn't that great. Bottom line, I wouldn't use it with the PPR there.

Yes, the Rare and under ARs need buffs, but the Harrier definitely needs a small nerf. A weight increase for sure, but besides that, I don't know.

[Atheosis]

St3v3H wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

St3v3H wrote...

sammerz wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

Why does everything have to be equal? Why does it bother people that a bunch of players like to use the harrier?  (...).

Because Harrier is, right now, "Easy Mode ON". It is NOT balanced.

Way too much damage, quite stable as well (so damn easy to headshot with it).

You haven't answered his question... Not every gun has to be equal, it an UR gun so it is supposed to do more damage than other AR. The PPR does alot of damage too and so does the Saber. If you feel its easy mode for you there are a million other guns to choose from, enjoy and have fun with.

A bunch of people liked to use the Krysae pre-nerf, too. Did that make it undeserving of a nerf because it was a popular choice?

Right and what happened to that gun? it got nerfed to the point that it was hardly usable. I always have a hard time understanding that everyone is choosing the same gun just because its good. I used the Krysae once or twice before Bioware nerfed it and it didn't feel right so it switched to another weapon. We have alot of weapons to choose from and I think everyone has a different taste when it comes to them. I didn't scream nerf because alot of people used the Krysae just because alot of people liked that gun. I just played with the gun I enjoyed and let the others play with the guns of their choice.

The constant cry for nerfs on everything is really strange to me. But that is just how I feel. I'm happy with the way the game is

Personally, I'd just like to use the Harrier without feeling like I'm cheating.  

[Pyth the Bull]

theillusiveman11 wrote...
We buff other ARs as needed.

They should replace the entire "skeleton crew" multiplayer dev team with you.

[JGDD]

Schachmatt wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Schachmatt wrote...

This thread has been turned into a nerf thread shortly after the very first posts. So, it's yelling. And thank you, I'm well aware of biowares tendency to nerf one before to buff more than one. The harrier is not too powerful. It is a weapon with UR status and people need to open a lot of sp/psp's to get this weapon, not to mention getting it leveled to X. Take away 35% of it's damage as someone suggested in this very thread and it's a piece of useless junk. I'm sick of butthurt kids yelling for nerfs because the 'noob with the harrier' had outscored them. Or the vanguard has stolen their kills. Or whatever.

The harrier may not be too powerful in the traditional sense but it is undeniably a weapon without any faults. Which does make it too powerful. What is an honest downside to this weapon? It runs out of ammo fast? Not good enough since there's always an ammo crate within easy distance on every map of the game or a thermal clip on a pinch - regardless of difficulty setting.

UR status means nothing. There are a bunch of UR's in this game that cannot do as well as this one does with any class even at lower levels. There is no drawback to using this weapon.

Wrong again. The ammo issue balance this weapon. In order to not run out of ammo too fast the player has to land constant headshots. So it requires skill, yes. And yeeees, it's so easy to move from crate to crate when the map is flooded with hunters, pyros, primes, scions, praetorians, brutes ... And since when did people start to use ammo clip packs? Mostly I hear from harrier users the 'out of ammo' sample followed by rushing to the next crate - and then getting downed again.

And for UR status meaning nothing, what's wrong with the indra? Or the talon? Or the scorpion? Or the paladin? Or the saber? Or the ... ? Right, nothing. Easy usable with just any class. Some UR's are good allrounders, others are niche weapons.

Ammo count does not balance this at all. I've watched numerous players able to deftly move from one ammo crate to another while consistantly downing anything stupid enough to run in front of the player sporting a Harrier. No matter what kit was being used.

The rest of the UR's you mentioned all have some sort of drawback vs. the Harrier. The Indra doesn't hit as hard as the Harrier. The Talon and Paladin have small clips and demand a premium for landed shots or suffer if you miss. The Scorpion can be a sure fire reminder that you may want to host when using it as well as know that it takes a second for the rounds to detonate unless you're shooting at feet. The Saber is heavy and slow firing limiting your choices for genuine effectiveness.

Are you honestly saying that because some people don't know how to move around a battlefield or use consumables that it makes the weapon balanced?

[FeralJester616]

Pyth the Bull wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...
We buff other ARs as needed.

They should replace the entire "skeleton crew" multiplayer dev team with you.

I would second this motion, but I think in order to get true balance we need a Team of three.
One from the player base,
One from the dev team,
And one from the forums, to give their side...

Modifié par FeralJester616, 25 novembre 2012 - 07:56 .

[St3v3H]

Atheosis wrote...

St3v3H wrote...


Right and what happened to that gun? it got nerfed to the point that it was hardly usable. I always have a hard time understanding that everyone is choosing the same gun just because its good. I used the Krysae once or twice before Bioware nerfed it and it didn't feel right so it switched to another weapon. We have alot of weapons to choose from and I think everyone has a different taste when it comes to them. I didn't scream nerf because alot of people used the Krysae just because alot of people liked that gun. I just played with the gun I enjoyed and let the others play with the guns of their choice.

The constant cry for nerfs on everything is really strange to me. But that is just how I feel. I'm happy with the way the game is

Personally, I'd just like to use the Harrier without feeling like I'm cheating.  

Then stop putting it on the Ghost and drop armor Ammo 3 or 4

What I'm trying to say though is that if you search for a bit you find a nerf thread on everything that puts out a little bit of damage. I just feel that people spend way too much time thinking about what stuff needs nerfs. Just play that game we all enjoy and go for variety. I never play more than twice with the same class/loadout and that is what makes the game exciting for me.

Modifié par St3v3H, 25 novembre 2012 - 07:58 .

[whateverman7]

i disagree because of all the mods, equip, etc. available in the game that you can put on weapons, they are buffed already in a sense...are they as powerful as the harrier? no, but they are effective on any level of difficulty...if people dont wanna use them because they dont score as many points with other weapons like they do the harrier, that's on them, but doesnt mean the guns arent balanced/useful/effective....

[Uchimura]

Fyurian2 wrote...

Uchimura wrote...

Sidenote, remember how HVB for ARs also sucks compared to SG, HP, and even SMG's versions of the rare barrel mods..

ARs and SMGs have the same barrel mods.
One for extra damage, one for better armour piercing. The difference, is that ARs have two weapon mods capable of armour piercing as opposed to the recent addition for SMGs.

They're not the same. The AR version adds weight. 

[whateverman7]

FeralJester616 wrote...

I would second this motion, but I think in order to get true balance we need a Team of three.
One from the player base,
One from the dev team,
And one from the forums, to give their side...

i wouldnt because players (from forum or not) would be asking for super weapons....then they'd turn around and complain the game was too easy...the min the game was made harder/tougher, they'd complain for more super weapons and/or that the game was too hard....need an example? just look at what was said on the bsn around the time the collectors were released....

Modifié par whateverman7, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:04 .

[Atheosis]

St3v3H wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

St3v3H wrote...


Right and what happened to that gun? it got nerfed to the point that it was hardly usable. I always have a hard time understanding that everyone is choosing the same gun just because its good. I used the Krysae once or twice before Bioware nerfed it and it didn't feel right so it switched to another weapon. We have alot of weapons to choose from and I think everyone has a different taste when it comes to them. I didn't scream nerf because alot of people used the Krysae just because alot of people liked that gun. I just played with the gun I enjoyed and let the others play with the guns of their choice.

The constant cry for nerfs on everything is really strange to me. But that is just how I feel. I'm happy with the way the game is

Personally, I'd just like to use the Harrier without feeling like I'm cheating.  

Then stop putting it on the Ghost and drop armor Ammo 3 or 4

What I'm trying to say though is that if you search for a bit you find a nerf thread on everything that puts out a little bit of damage. I just feel that people spend way too much time thinking about what stuff needs nerfs. Just play that game we all enjoy and go for variety. I never play more than twice with the same class/loadout and that is what makes the game exciting for me.

I don't play the Ghost, especially with the Harrier.  That makes me feel like I'm cheating with nearly any AR.  At the same time you are basically arguing that I should handicap the Harrier when I use it.  Honestly that's just dumb.

[JGDD]

St3v3H wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

St3v3H wrote...

sammerz wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

Why does everything have to be equal? Why does it bother people that a bunch of players like to use the harrier?  (...).

Because Harrier is, right now, "Easy Mode ON". It is NOT balanced.

Way too much damage, quite stable as well (so damn easy to headshot with it).

You haven't answered his question... Not every gun has to be equal, it an UR gun so it is supposed to do more damage than other AR. The PPR does alot of damage too and so does the Saber. If you feel its easy mode for you there are a million other guns to choose from, enjoy and have fun with.

A bunch of people liked to use the Krysae pre-nerf, too. Did that make it undeserving of a nerf because it was a popular choice?

Right and what happened to that gun? it got nerfed to the point that it was hardly usable. I always have a hard time understanding that everyone is choosing the same gun just because its good. I used the Krysae once or twice before Bioware nerfed it and it didn't feel right so it switched to another weapon. We have alot of weapons to choose from and I think everyone has a different taste when it comes to them. I didn't scream nerf because alot of people used the Krysae just because alot of people liked that gun. I just played with the gun I enjoyed and let the others play with the guns of their choice.

The constant cry for nerfs on everything is really strange to me. But that is just how I feel. I'm happy with the way the game is

Oh trust me, I do not want the Harrier to get ****** pounded like the Krysae did. But it has few drawbacks now whereas a vast majority of the current weapons make you choose carefully based on personal preferences and kit being used.

Weight increase is one viable option as others have mentioned. RoF another though it's not bad as it stands now IMO. I think clip size (not total rounds carried) could be reduced some.

[whateverman7]

St3v3H wrote...

Then stop putting it on the Ghost and drop armor Ammo 3 or 4

What I'm trying to say though is that if you search for a bit you find a nerf thread on everything that puts out a little bit of damage. I just feel that people spend way too much time thinking about what stuff needs nerfs. Just play that game we all enjoy and go for variety. I never play more than twice with the same class/loadout and that is what makes the game exciting for me.

that part is so true...people add all the mods to a weapon, use a character that makes it even more powerful, then have the nerve to call the weapon overpowered lol...

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...


Oh trust me, I do not want the Harrier to get ****** pounded like the Krysae did. But it has few drawbacks now whereas a vast majority of the current weapons make you choose carefully based on personal preferences and kit being used.

Weight increase is one viable option as others have mentioned. RoF another though it's not bad as it stands now IMO. I think clip size (not total rounds carried) could be reduced some.

The nerf that makes the most sense would be switching the Recoil from out of cover/in cover.

[Rasputin17]

I was expecting to come in and tell you to stop b***ing, but I agree man. That is the best way to balance The Harrier.

Here are a few ideas.


Avenger- Give it an inherant power damage boost.

Saber- Small Headshot damage boost.


Revenant- A ricochet effect.

Phaeston- Reduce weight even more.

Striker and Falcon- A simple damage boost should suffice.


After that get to work on the SMG.

Its basically Hurricane (which I love) and the odd Hornet user.