474 réponses à ce sujet

[Drewton]

Seival wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Dark Energy ending is just a rumor. Even if its true it doesn't matter. The dark energy ending shares many similarities to the current endings.

Both involve Shepard being approached by the leader of the Reapers. Both involve the reaper leader convincing Shepard that their actions are not evil, but meant to solve a greater problem (dark energy will kill us all or synthetics vs. organics).

Both involve Shepard potentially choosing to abandon his mission to destroy the reapers, in favor of helping them save the galaxy from a greater danger.

The dark energy idea is stupid because its a problem affecting the entire universe. There's no evidence to suggest the reapers have a presence in every galaxy, so they cannot hope to solve this problem by interfering with the milky way alone. Knowing this, the reaper leader would have to be lying to us.

The synthetic vs. organic idea is even more idiotic because the reapers cause the very problem they were supposedly created to stop. With the exception of the Morning War (The quarians picked that fight, not the geth), all cases of synthetics attacking organics have been caused by the reapers.

The catalyst is counting on players believing that synthetics vs organics is an actual problem when it is not, and allowing the reapers to integrate synthetic tech into all organics ( ie: harvest them). The reaper leader in the dark energy ending is counting on players being dumb enough to believe dark energy is an imminent threat, and the only chance we have of stopping it is to stand back and let the reapers create the human reaper.



TL;DR version: 'Dark energy' is the same "The reapers just want to save us" twist as 'Synthetics VS Organics'.

You don't like "in fact, villain never was a villain, but you knew nothing about that" concept?

Or you just don't like unpredictable endings in general?

Personally I like both - the mentioned concept and unpredictable endings.

I thought it was a neat twist too that characters shown to be completely evil like turning people into husks, melting people into goo, experimenting on humans, and taunting us all the time ("I KNOW THIS HURTS YOU") were actually never bad just misunderstood

So brilliant, makes so much sense

Modifié par Drewton, 09 février 2013 - 04:46 .

[Seival]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Seival wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

-snip-

You don't like "in fact, villain never was a villain, but you knew nothing about that" concept?

Or you just don't like unpredictable endings in general?

Personally I like both - the mentioned concept and unpredictable endings.

The reapers are cunning in their deception. Tricking you into believing that they are not your enemies and that they are here to protect you.

In that case they could arrive as "peace keepers" in ME1, gain trust of all races and all people by "killing the evil Geth", and then attack without a warning before anyone could even start to use millitary forces.

Reapers have some tricks, but they were not used in the ending.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Seival wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Seival wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

-snip-

You don't like "in fact, villain never was a villain, but you knew nothing about that" concept?

Or you just don't like unpredictable endings in general?

Personally I like both - the mentioned concept and unpredictable endings.

The reapers are cunning in their deception. Tricking you into believing that they are not your enemies and that they are here to protect you.

In that case they could arrive as "peace keepers" in ME1, gain trust of all races and all people by "killing the evil Geth", and then attack without a warning before anyone could even start to use millitary forces.

Reapers have some tricks, but they were not used in the ending.

They sure failed the 'gain the trust of all races and peopple part' by killing and mutiliating us by the billions, and laughing sadistically while doing it...

[Drewton]

Seival wrote...

Reapers have some tricks, but they were not used in the ending.

Also Shepard being indoctrinated at the end wouldn't fit with Shepard being space Jesus

Shepard is around the Reapers a lot but he should be the only one not susceptible to indoctrination, to be space Jesus

Modifié par Drewton, 09 février 2013 - 04:53 .

[Gamer790]

No it was not.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Seival wrote...

Slapped together at the last minute? Nothing indicates that. The ending is shocking, but not out of place. It fits the narrative just perfectly.

That's one of the things that irritates me the most: How unobservant people are.

I mean, Mass Effect 1 was about synthetics versus organics, and the introduction of the reapers.
Mass Effect 2 was about the preparation for the cycle where organics would be turned into reapers.
Mass Effect 3 was the reapers turning up for that harvest.

It followed through pretty fluidly.

1) No it was not, Mass effect 1 was about stopping Saren and Sovereign from activating the Citadel. Which ME3 made pointless anyway.  We were never lead to believe that the Geth were anything more than just pawns to Sovereign's will just as Saren was.

Until the last 20 minutes of Mass Effect 3 we didn't know that there was even a war between Synthetic's and Organics, everything we knew up till that point lead us to believe the Geth and Quarian war was nothing more than a glorified border skirmish, hell the Geth didn't even give a **** about organics, they just wanted to be left alone.

I can't belive people think the overarching plot to the ME trilogy was good, they must never have read a book or watched a movie.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 09 février 2013 - 06:21 .

[shodiswe]

Renegade AI Shepard from the Control ending send a mesage to the Consort.

Miss Consort, I belive I finaly understand! Now, bow before your godemperor!

I will watch over you for all eternity, until you your children and childrens children are nothing but dust and forgotten by the galaxy, I will still remember you and everyone else when the Universe grows dim.


Sha'ira starts shivering: .... okay... I never should have began this line of work.



///
Personaly I prefer paragon control... But when it commes to Sha'ira, it would be a lot more fun to give her the creeps.

Modifié par shodiswe, 09 février 2013 - 06:37 .

[Seival]

DinoSteve wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

Seival wrote...

Slapped together at the last minute? Nothing indicates that. The ending is shocking, but not out of place. It fits the narrative just perfectly.

That's one of the things that irritates me the most: How unobservant people are.

I mean, Mass Effect 1 was about synthetics versus organics, and the introduction of the reapers.
Mass Effect 2 was about the preparation for the cycle where organics would be turned into reapers.
Mass Effect 3 was the reapers turning up for that harvest.

It followed through pretty fluidly.

1) No it was not, Mass effect 1 was about stopping Saren and Sovereign from activating the Citadel. Which ME3 made pointless anyway.  We were never lead to believe that the Geth were anything more than just pawns to Sovereign's will just as Saren was.

Until the last 20 minutes of Mass Effect 3 we didn't know that there was even a war between Synthetic's and Organics, everything we knew up till that point lead us to believe the Geth and Quarian war was nothing more than a glorified border skirmish, hell the Geth didn't even give a **** about organics, they just wanted to be left alone.

I can't belive people think the overarching plot to the ME trilogy was good, they must never have read a book or watched a movie.

And I can't believe some people don't see the obvious organics-vs-synthetics ideas pass through the entire trilogy...

...These ideas are not the only ones, but they are clearly the main ones. That's why we have the ending concept purely based on these ideas.

Modifié par Seival, 09 février 2013 - 07:11 .

[Fixers0]

EntropicAngel wrote...

According to Drew, it sure was.

Not.

[Kabraxal]

If that ending was planned, then why isn't the starbrat anywhere else in the trilogy? There should have been hints and moments where his presence is felt in every game, especially ME1 given the whole trying to open the relay end run....

There is just too much inconsistency in the trilogy with the starbrat for it to have been fully planned from the start. It punches far too many holes into the plot to have been anything but a last minute change if the endings really do stay as is.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Seival wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

Seival wrote...

Slapped together at the last minute? Nothing indicates that. The ending is shocking, but not out of place. It fits the narrative just perfectly.

That's one of the things that irritates me the most: How unobservant people are.

I mean, Mass Effect 1 was about synthetics versus organics, and the introduction of the reapers.
Mass Effect 2 was about the preparation for the cycle where organics would be turned into reapers.
Mass Effect 3 was the reapers turning up for that harvest.

It followed through pretty fluidly.

1) No it was not, Mass effect 1 was about stopping Saren and Sovereign from activating the Citadel. Which ME3 made pointless anyway.  We were never lead to believe that the Geth were anything more than just pawns to Sovereign's will just as Saren was.

Until the last 20 minutes of Mass Effect 3 we didn't know that there was even a war between Synthetic's and Organics, everything we knew up till that point lead us to believe the Geth and Quarian war was nothing more than a glorified border skirmish, hell the Geth didn't even give a **** about organics, they just wanted to be left alone.

I can't belive people think the overarching plot to the ME trilogy was good, they must never have read a book or watched a movie.

And I can't believe some people don't see the obvious organics-vs-synthetics ideas pass through the entire trilogy...

...These ideas are not the only ones, but they are clearly the main ones. That's why we have the ending concept purely based on these ideas.

Organics vs Synthetics a major plot in ME 1 & 2! You are either playing a different trilogy than I am or you are reading to much into minor (really minor)  plot details.

I wouldn't mind, if what you say was true then the whole trilogy is still a balls because if you make peace with the Geth and the Quarians you solve the problem that the Catalyst (the supposed smartest AI ever invented) spent millions of years trying to fix, so you don't need to fire the crucible.

Mass Effect is a badly written trilogy with little to no foreshadowing and planning. Whats even worse is that if you were right and it was planned it just means that it was badly planned and badly written.


As stand alone games ME1 and 2 are brillant ME3 was ok, but as a trilogy, they just don't fit as they should.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 09 février 2013 - 07:56 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote..

And I can't believe some people don't see the obvious organics-vs-synthetics ideas pass through the entire trilogy...

...These ideas are not the only ones, but they are clearly the main ones. That's why we have the ending concept purely based on these ideas.

When playing each game in the series for the first time, did you really think this was what it was all about? 

I'm going to say no, and everyone else was in the same position, and anyone who says otherwise is more than likely lying. 

It was never given the emphasis you're suggesting. The relationship between synthetics and organics was never even portrayed in the same way, let alone made out to be that important. 

[k.lalh]

Snake91 wrote...

Here the real endings

http://www.polygon.c...ndings-for-mass


http://www.strategyi...ffect-3-endings

Bioware had cut the real endings cos they wanted...........................................................................:devil::devil::devil:

The current endings make more sense. They have a lot of background info leading up to them, the whole synthetic vs organic struggle is an, albeit subtle, undertone in all the games.

Dark Energy is sketchy...real sketchy...we don't really have any kind of undertones or themes within the games talking about dark energy, and it has the possibility of conflicting with the real properties of dark energy as they are discovered.

Modifié par k.lalh, 09 février 2013 - 08:13 .

[AresKeith]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote..

And I can't believe some people don't see the obvious organics-vs-synthetics ideas pass through the entire trilogy...

...These ideas are not the only ones, but they are clearly the main ones. That's why we have the ending concept purely based on these ideas.

When playing each game in the series for the first time, did you really think this was what it was all about? 

I'm going to say no, and everyone else was in the same position, and anyone who says otherwise is more than likely lying. 

It was never given the emphasis you're suggesting. The relationship between synthetics and organics was never even portrayed in the same way, let alone made out to be that important. 

Exactly, Organic v Synthetic was portrayed to be that big it mainly applied to Quarians/Geth which could be resolved by peace

[Lady Abstract]

I think that EA was rushing them to release the 3rd mass effect so they didnt get to work on it the way they planned...you have to remember how EA is...perhaps bioware wanted to do more with me3. The demand for me3 was growing grim im sure some pressure was put on them but then again maybe they just got lazy who knows

[TheIdiocyWizard2.0]

k.lalh wrote...

The current endings make more sense. They have a lot of background info leading up to them, the whole synthetic vs organic struggle is an, albeit subtle, undertone in all the games.

Dark Energy is sketchy...real sketchy...we don't really have any kind of undertones or themes within the games talking about dark energy, and it has the possibility of conflicting with the real properties of dark energy as they are discovered.

I would say that they both had the same amount of attention before ME3 came out. Dark Energy had some foreshadowing in ME2, while the whole 'Synthetics vs. Organics' thing was really only introduced in ME2, and even then very late in the game and through a squad mate you don't even have to wake up.

[Untold]

Seival wrote...

So, was ME3 ending planned from the beginning? Did developers actually have the vision of the ending while they worked on ME1? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, and it doesn't actually matter what did they say in the interviews...

...Thinking about this, and about Mass Effect Story in general, I created this video.

Sha'ira's Prophecy.

Yeah, uh no. That prophecy is from an old RPG called Planescapre Torment. Took me a while to remember where I had heard it before but it's Deionarra's Prophecy.

http://youtu.be/oDr5zEZ8Ml4?t=1m18s

Modifié par Untold, 09 février 2013 - 08:33 .

[Red Panda]

TheIdiocyWizard2.0 wrote...

k.lalh wrote...

The current endings make more sense. They have a lot of background info leading up to them, the whole synthetic vs organic struggle is an, albeit subtle, undertone in all the games.

Dark Energy is sketchy...real sketchy...we don't really have any kind of undertones or themes within the games talking about dark energy, and it has the possibility of conflicting with the real properties of dark energy as they are discovered.

I would say that they both had the same amount of attention before ME3 came out. Dark Energy had some foreshadowing in ME2, while the whole 'Synthetics vs. Organics' thing was really only introduced in ME2, and even then very late in the game and through a squad mate you don't even have to wake up.

Utter and complete waffle.

Organics vs. Synthetics:

ME1:
Noveria
Feros
Virmire
The Citadel endgame
UNC: Geth Incursions
UNC: Distress Signal
Eden Prime
Citadel: Gambling AI
Luna: Rogue VI
Squadmate mission: Tali and the Geth

(May have forgot some, but you get the idea)

ME2:
Jarrahe Station
Legion, in general
A house Divided
Haestorm
Titan nebula production facility
Crashed freighter on that one planet with sandstorms
Pylos Nebula: Save crashing ship
Tali's loyalty mission

And that's not counting the mechs used by the Sesame Street mercs

ME3:
Rannoch Arc
 Geth Consensus
 Admiral Koris
 Reaper base
EDI
The Geth
Legion/Geth VI: once again!

The endings
  Speaking to the Catalyst
  And Destroy (LOL), the definition of the conflict realized at its climax


Dark Energy:

ME1:
  Noveria Lab
ME2:
  Haestorm
  Some mentions on the Migrant fleet
ME3:
  Maybe how the crucible works?


Ignoring evidence doesn't make it not exist.

Organics vs. Synthetics has been a recurring theme that has indeed been rather strong. You chose to ignore it. Dark energy has little buildup in comparison.

[Untold]

Just curious. What hapens to that organics vs synthetics theme once the geth, who were essentially the center of most of the synthetic conflict in the first game and secondary in the second, allied with humanity?

Sure it was a theme, but the over all solution is made moot from the catalyst once like many warring nations peace is made. What then is the whole point of the catalyst's logic of synthetics vs organics. Or the more actual deadly scenario of organics vs organics. The codex is filled with history of war that mostly relates to non synthetics.

Oh well. There I go thinking again. lol

[Red Panda]

Untold wrote...

Just curious. What hapens to that organics vs synthetics theme once the geth, who were essentially the center of most of the synthetic conflict in the first game and secondary in the second, allied with humanity?

Sure it was a theme, but the over all solution is made moot from the catalyst once like many warring nations peace is made. What then is the whole point of the catalyst's logic of synthetics vs organics. Or the more actual deadly scenario of organics vs organics. The codex is filled with history of war that mostly relates to non synthetics.

Oh well. There I go thinking again. lol

Peace is never permanent. It is simply the absence of war.

Conflict is still inevitable. Therefore, the catalyst is right.


As for your second part, it's safe to say that life's nature is one of a state of conflict.

[TheIdiocyWizard2.0]

OperatingWookie wrote...


Utter and complete waffle.

Organics vs. Synthetics:

ME1:
Noveria
Feros
Virmire
The Citadel endgame
UNC: Geth Incursions
UNC: Distress Signal
Eden Prime
Citadel: Gambling AI
Luna: Rogue VI
Squadmate mission: Tali and the Geth

(May have forgot some, but you get the idea)

ME2:
Jarrahe Station
Legion, in general
A house Divided
Haestorm
Titan nebula production facility
Crashed freighter on that one planet with sandstorms
Pylos Nebula: Save crashing ship
Tali's loyalty mission

And that's not counting the mechs used by the Sesame Street mercs

ME3:
Rannoch Arc
 Geth Consensus
 Admiral Koris
 Reaper base
EDI
The Geth
Legion/Geth VI: once again!

The endings
  Speaking to the Catalyst
  And Destroy (LOL), the definition of the conflict realized at its climax


Dark Energy:

ME1:
  Noveria Lab
ME2:
  Haestorm
  Some mentions on the Migrant fleet
ME3:
  Maybe how the crucible works?


Ignoring evidence doesn't make it not exist.

Organics vs. Synthetics has been a recurring theme that has indeed been rather strong. You chose to ignore it. Dark energy has little buildup in comparison.

No, you're confusing the main Conflict with the main Theme. Just because I'm fighting some robots doesn't mean the theme is Organics and Synthetics and their inability to understand each other.

[AresKeith]

Untold wrote...

Just curious. What hapens to that organics vs synthetics theme once the geth, who were essentially the center of most of the synthetic conflict in the first game and secondary in the second, allied with humanity?

Sure it was a theme, but the over all solution is made moot from the catalyst once like many warring nations peace is made. What then is the whole point of the catalyst's logic of synthetics vs organics. Or the more actual deadly scenario of organics vs organics. The codex is filled with history of war that mostly relates to non synthetics.

Oh well. There I go thinking again. lol

And that's why the Catalysts claims are weak, Synthetics v Organics are nothing compared to conflict in general that happen in the past of ME