474 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr_Extrem]

J. Reezy wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Oh boy, a Seival thread.

hey .. its my sunday evening entertainment ... sundays tv-program in germany suck - except you like "tatort".

[Dr_Extrem]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...


Yea, but it's an AI that has no real physical platform outside the Reapers. Even if they did plan the Catalyst, which is doubtful, it being on the Citadel doesn't invalidate Sovereign's efforts.

The Citadel. It existed before the first Reaper, so it doesn't need them to exist. He completely invalidates the Prothean's work to help safeguard our cycle. And let's just say that with the Reapers in hibernating mode, he doesn't have the capability to fix the damage they did. Well then he can wake them up, get more processing power, and then fix the bit of code the Protheans changed. Suddenly boom, Reapers.

Hell, why is Sovereign even needed if there's an AI right in the seat of power for the galaxy?

Um, I've never read or heard that before. I'm pretty sure that's not right.

The Citadel was not, in fact, constructed by the Protheans; they were simply the last race to make use of the station before the asari arrived. It, and the mass relays, are the creations of the Reapers, and were built to help facilitate their cycle of galactic genocide. The Reapers were also responsible for the placement of the keepers on the station, in order that the occupying races would not discover the Citadel's key functions. The station is actually an inactive mass relay leading to dark space, designed as an elaborate trap so the Reapers can wipe out the heart of galactic civilization and leadership in a single, devastating strike.

from the mass effect wiki


the citadel is reaper tech - it was build by the reapers or at least by the leviathans, who the reapers are based on.

I remember Sovereign saying - that Relays are their technology and we are evolving in path which they desire...

exactly - they are railroading civilisations progress, where they want it. we are using their technology, wich makes us capable of space and ftl flight. it also restricts our development - less variables for the reapers to adapt to.

pretty clever.

[MegaSovereign]

Yea, but there is nothing that suggests that the Citadel was built before the first Reaper.

[Applepie_Svk]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Yea, but there is nothing that suggests that the Citadel was built before the first Reaper.

Citadel itself is big relay and gate to dark space or different galaxy or candyland ?...

[Ticonderoga117]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
The Citadel. It existed before the first Reaper, so it doesn't need them to exist.

Um, I've never read or heard that before. I'm pretty sure that's not right.

But the Catalyst WAS built before any of the Reapers, we are told this by both himself and the Leviathans. Since the Catalyst IS based partially within the Citadel by the time Shepard rolls around, why wouldn't he be based there?

[Seival]

Soultaker08 wrote...

watched the real discussion with shaira on youtube, in my language and in english... none of those words are ever mentioned by shaira where the f*ck did you get that from?!??!?!

The voice you hear in the video belongs to Jennifer Hale ...(interesting isn't it?)... This is a part of Deionarra's Prophecy from the Planescape: Torment

Modifié par Seival, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:03 .

[Bill Casey]

Uh... thanks...
I guess...

[jstme]

I do not think that it was planned, but the video is really cool.

[MegaSovereign]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
The Citadel. It existed before the first Reaper, so it doesn't need them to exist.

Um, I've never read or heard that before. I'm pretty sure that's not right.

But the Catalyst WAS built before any of the Reapers, we are told this by both himself and the Leviathans. Since the Catalyst IS based partially within the Citadel by the time Shepard rolls around, why wouldn't he be based there?

The Catalyst is on the Citadel but that doesn't mean he is the Citadel.

The Citadel is an integral part of the harvesting solution. Why would it exist before the Catalyst decided to Reap?

[Dr_Extrem]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
The Citadel. It existed before the first Reaper, so it doesn't need them to exist.

Um, I've never read or heard that before. I'm pretty sure that's not right.

But the Catalyst WAS built before any of the Reapers, we are told this by both himself and the Leviathans. Since the Catalyst IS based partially within the Citadel by the time Shepard rolls around, why wouldn't he be based there?

The Catalyst is on the Citadel but that doesn't mean he is the Citadel.

The Citadel is an integral part of the harvesting solution. Why would it exist before the Catalyst decided to Reap?

that is one reason, the catalyst subplot makes little sense. well it could make sense - but there is almost no info given on that matter.

before the starchild scene, shepard (the player) thinks, that the citadel is the catalyst and not the ancient ai with flawed logics.

[Seival]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
The Citadel. It existed before the first Reaper, so it doesn't need them to exist.

Um, I've never read or heard that before. I'm pretty sure that's not right.

But the Catalyst WAS built before any of the Reapers, we are told this by both himself and the Leviathans. Since the Catalyst IS based partially within the Citadel by the time Shepard rolls around, why wouldn't he be based there?

The Catalyst is on the Citadel but that doesn't mean he is the Citadel.

The Citadel is an integral part of the harvesting solution. Why would it exist before the Catalyst decided to Reap?

that is one reason, the catalyst subplot makes little sense. well it could make sense - but there is almost no info given on that matter.

before the starchild scene, shepard (the player) thinks, that the citadel is the catalyst and not the ancient ai with flawed logics.

Such subplots are only good when reader knows noting about them from the beginning.

BioWare used that turn of events several times in Mass Effect trilogy...

...First we think that Nazara is an advanced Geth dreadnought, but then we find out that it's a living being.
...First we wonder what happened to the Protheans and who are Collectors, but then we learn about Prothean hasks.
...First we thought that all Geth are hostile intelligent machines, but then we meet the Legion.

The closer the subplot to the end - the better effect it has. ME3 ending was completely unpredictable, and provided a good ground for moral and philosophical discussions.

Modifié par Seival, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:38 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Seival wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
The Citadel. It existed before the first Reaper, so it doesn't need them to exist.

Um, I've never read or heard that before. I'm pretty sure that's not right.

But the Catalyst WAS built before any of the Reapers, we are told this by both himself and the Leviathans. Since the Catalyst IS based partially within the Citadel by the time Shepard rolls around, why wouldn't he be based there?

The Catalyst is on the Citadel but that doesn't mean he is the Citadel.

The Citadel is an integral part of the harvesting solution. Why would it exist before the Catalyst decided to Reap?

that is one reason, the catalyst subplot makes little sense. well it could make sense - but there is almost no info given on that matter.

before the starchild scene, shepard (the player) thinks, that the citadel is the catalyst and not the ancient ai with flawed logics.

Such subplots are only good when reader knows noting about them from the beginning.

BioWare used that turn of events several times in Mass Effect trilogy...

...First we think that Nazara is an advanced Geth dreadnought, but then we find out that it's a living being.
...First we wonder what happened to the Protheans and who are Collectors, but then we learn about Prothean hasks.
...First we thought that all Geth are hostile intelligent machines, but then we meet the Legion.

The closer the subplot to the end - the better effect it has. ME3 ending was completely unpredictable, and provided a good ground for moral and philosophical discussions.

but we knew, that nazera existed in the first place - the citadel was supposed to be the catalyst and even that was revealed very late on the game - during cronos station. the catalyst plot (the catalyst being the ai) hit us out of nowhere.

the fate of the collectors is icing on the cake. we found that out on the collector ship - on half of the game - not at the end.
edit: the fact that the collectors are the descendence of the protheans, was just revealed, to give the collectors a face and an origin. before that, they were just big mysterious bug-things, who collect genetic anomalies.


same with legion. we find legion at the start of the 3rd act of me2. the difference is, that legion explains what happend to the geth - we get to know their history and we get the possibility to change them during the loyalty mission. we get details, that give the plot sense. 


the me3 endings do not make any sense - they just provoke new questions and give almost no answers - the ending of a story is about answers and conclusion - not new questions.


the only effect (of the catalyst plot) on the player was confusion - you dont confuse the player at the end of a story. you do the opposite.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 25 novembre 2012 - 10:09 .

[Xellith]

Seival wrote...

...First we think that Nazara is an advanced Geth dreadnought, but then we find out that it's a living being.
...First we wonder what happened to the Protheans and who are Collectors, but then we learn about Prothean hasks.
...First we thought that all Geth are hostile intelligent machines, but then we meet the Legion.

Funnily enough I never thought Sovereign was a Geth ship. I remember saying "wonder where it comes from. But people are going on saying that it can control people so maybe its got an AI in it or something?" I just didnt comprehend the actual scale of the threat until the end of ME1.

I never really wondered what happened to the protheans. The start. "I saw synthetics.. geth maybe.. butchering people". And so I immediately said "Protheans wiped out by machines then I guess?"

Yeah that geth one happened to me though.

Modifié par Xellith, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:51 .

[Seival]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Yea, but there is nothing that suggests that the Citadel was built before the first Reaper.

Citadel itself is big relay and gate to dark space or different galaxy or candyland ?...

Citadel is the largest Mass Relay, and the entire Mass Relay Network was built by the Catalyst after it created the Harbinger:
http://www.youtube.c...dh01_Fbs#t=684s

[Zeroth Angel]

10/10 for Planescape Torment.

[Ticonderoga117]

Seival wrote...
The closer the subplot to the end - the better effect it has. ME3 ending was completely unpredictable, and provided a good ground for moral and philosophical discussions.

Except it completely contradicted past plot points JUST for the moral and philosophical discussions, which is not how you write any type of decent narrative.

You can still have the discussion, but it needs to logically and thematically fit within what was constructed previously.

[Lance Gardner]

I'd love it if Bioware included a prophecy like that for Sha'ira in a sneaky free ME1 DLC. Would make the progression of the games seem less random.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Yes, yes.

In fact Mac Walters had the entire thing planned when he was still a child. Such a genius.

Anyway, Seival thread. This should be entertaining.

[Seival]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

but we knew, that nazera existed in the first place - the citadel was supposed to be the catalyst and even that was revealed very late on the game - during cronos station. the catalyst plot (the catalyst being the ai) hit us out of nowhere.

the fate of the collectors is icing on the cake. we found that out on the collector ship - on half of the game - not at the end.
edit: the fact that the collectors are the descendence of the protheans, was just revealed, to give the collectors a face and an origin. before that, they were just big mysterious bug-things, who collect genetic anomalies.

same with legion. we find legion at the start of the 3rd act of me2. the difference is, that legion explains what happend to the geth - we get to know their history and we get the possibility to change them during the loyalty mission. we get details, that give the plot sense. 

the me3 endings do not make any sense - they just provoke new questions and give almost no answers - the ending of a story is about answers and conclusion - not new questions. 

the only effect (of the catalyst plot) on the player was confusion - you dont confuse the player at the end of a story. you do the opposite.

We can see an interesting rule applied to the entire trilogy. There are at least two major turn of events in each part of the story. The first major turn of events always occurs closer to the beginning, and the second one - closer to the ending:  
 - Truth about Nazara after 15% of ME1 playthrough.
 - Truth about Citadel and the Keepers after 95% of ME1 playthrough.
 - Truth about the Collectors after 50% of ME2 playthrough.
 - Truth about the Geth after 80% of ME2 playthrough.
 - Crucible reference was found after 5% of ME3 playthrough.
 - Catalyst introduced itself after 95% of ME3 playthrough.

ME3 turn of events style and meaning makes sense, and fits everything we have seen in ME1 and ME2 just perfectly. ME3 just continues previous parts traditions, and even raise them to the new level. We couldn't expect anything else from ME3. Anything else would not be the Mass Effect, and would dissapoint same people much more than blurry original ending, believe me.

Modifié par Seival, 26 novembre 2012 - 11:29 .

[Seival]

jstme wrote...

I do not think that it was planned, but the video is really cool.

Thanks

[Ironhandjustice]

Arcian wrote...

This.

Seriously, when you see the MEHEM, you realize that reapers are just Cthulhu-like monsters we can't comprehend, built by the Levs.

The only false statement is "we have no begining, we have no end". The first dismissed by the levs, the second, dismised by our "giant crucible gun. Die, you jellyfish!"

[Bob Garbage]

If they did, that would make Bioware the troll masters of the universe.

[Seival]

Wimbini wrote...

10/10 for Planescape Torment.

Well, Planescape: Torment and Mass Effect Trilogy are the best games of all times for me. Can't really decide which one I like more. I think they both deserve 10/10 no matter Planescape is very old...

...It would be great if someone will create Planescape: Torment remake some day. RPG with 100% the same story, but with all advantages modern gamedev technologies can offer.