474 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Seival wrote...
I think that it's also obvious that impossibility of conventional victory was definitely planned from the beginning. ME1 ending set that concept in stone... So, I believe they had thoughts about something like Crucible and Catalyst even during ME1 development.

Crucible, definitely.  I'm not surprised, though I did think they could come up with something more interesting than "giant freaking laser of varying colors."

You mean a "giant bomb of varying colors"

...I think that anything else (like virus or hack for example) would be just a variant of conventional victory, which would be standard, and boring. In that case people would accuse BioWare in making silly "holywoodish" ending.

Modifié par Seival, 27 novembre 2012 - 11:29 .

[Mcfly616]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...


Yea, but it's an AI that has no real physical platform outside the Reapers. Even if they did plan the Catalyst, which is doubtful, it being on the Citadel doesn't invalidate Sovereign's efforts.

The Citadel. It existed before the first Reaper, so it doesn't need them to exist. He completely invalidates the Prothean's work to help safeguard our cycle. And let's just say that with the Reapers in hibernating mode, he doesn't have the capability to fix the damage they did. Well then he can wake them up, get more processing power, and then fix the bit of code the Protheans changed. Suddenly boom, Reapers.

Hell, why is Sovereign even needed if there's an AI right in the seat of power for the galaxy?

Um, I've never read or heard that before. I'm pretty sure that's not right.

The Citadel was not, in fact, constructed by the Protheans; they were simply the last race to make use of the station before the asari arrived. It, and the mass relays, are the creations of the Reapers, and were built to help facilitate their cycle of galactic genocide. The Reapers were also responsible for the placement of the keepers on the station, in order that the occupying races would not discover the Citadel's key functions. The station is actually an inactive mass relay leading to dark space, designed as an elaborate trap so the Reapers can wipe out the heart of galactic civilization and leadership in a single, devastating strike.

from the mass effect wiki


the citadel is reaper tech - it was build by the reapers or at least by the leviathans, who the reapers are based on.

yeah, Leviathan states that they created the Catalyst, the Catalyst created the Reapers and then had them create the Relay Network. The Citadel is the master relay (and probably the first) The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. The Catalyst is not the Citadel. The Catalyst only resides within it.

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Seival wrote...
I think that it's also obvious that impossibility of conventional victory was definitely planned from the beginning. ME1 ending set that concept in stone... So, I believe they had thoughts about something like Crucible and Catalyst even during ME1 development.

Crucible, definitely.  I'm not surprised, though I did think they could come up with something more interesting than "giant freaking laser of varying colors."

You mean a "giant bomb of varying colors"

...I think that anything else (like virus or hack for example) would be just a variant of conventional victory, which would be standard, and boring. In that case people would accuse BioWare in making silly "holywoodish" ending.

Erm, maybe some peoplee, but there would nothing like the amount of dissention there is even now, months later. 

Oh, and your made-up rules about fiction are still incredibly stupid. Ending the story a la Independance Day does is not inherently negative. 

[Seival]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Ending the story a la Independance Day does is not inherently negative. 

Not negative at all, but very funny and silly. Just like a bunch of baby-bears with toy-spears defeating legions of well trained and equipped empire forces. Pure comedy built on apotheosis of absurd... No thanks, I don't want such ending for Mass Effect.

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Ending the story a la Independance Day does is not inherently negative. 

Not negative at all, but very funny and silly. Just like a bunch of baby-bears with toy-spears defeating legions of well trained and equipped empire forces. Pure comedy built on apotheosis of absurd... No thanks, I don't want such ending for Mass Effect.

You're making it out to be like that.

Stop. You genuinely don't have a clue about this, or anything else you speak about. 

[EXMEFan]

I can't believe that people don't realize the beginning and end of this conversation lies in what Sovereign says vs what the Star Child says.

It shows a drastic change in direction.....

[Seival]

Mcfly616 wrote...

yeah, Leviathan states that they created the Catalyst, the Catalyst created the Reapers and then had them create the Relay Network. The Citadel is the master relay (and probably the first) The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. The Catalyst is not the Citadel. The Catalyst only resides within it.

I also believe that the Catalyst resides not just within Citadel, but also within each Relay, and each Reaper capital ship... as a hardware. That's why you can't hack or infect it, and need very specific galactic scale explosion to re-write its personality or destroy it.

Modifié par Seival, 27 novembre 2012 - 08:35 .

[Seival]

EXMEFan wrote...

I can't believe that people don't realize the beginning and end of this conversation lies in what Sovereign says vs what the Star Child says.

It shows a drastic change in direction.....

Nazara obviously just performed a psycological attack to demoralize opponent, not an attempt to explain anything. Also, I believe that it was actually the Catalyst speaking through the Nazara. At that moment Catalyst didn't want to introduce itself for obvious reasons.

[Mcfly616]

Seival wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

yeah, Leviathan states that they created the Catalyst, the Catalyst created the Reapers and then had them create the Relay Network. The Citadel is the master relay (and probably the first) The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. The Catalyst is not the Citadel. The Catalyst only resides within it.

I also believe that the Catalyst resides not just within Citadel, but also within each Relay, and each Reaper capital ship... as a hardware. That's why you can't hack or infect it, and need very specific galactic scale explosion to re-write its personality or destroy it.

hmm I'm not sure that's how it works. But its definitely an interesting thought worth speculating.

Seems that people want to believe that the Catalyst "is" the Citadel. When reality, its an individual being.....that just happens to be the central consciousness of the Reapers who resides within the Citadel.

[Dr_Extrem]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

yeah, Leviathan states that they created the Catalyst, the Catalyst created the Reapers and then had them create the Relay Network. The Citadel is the master relay (and probably the first) The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. The Catalyst is not the Citadel. The Catalyst only resides within it.

I also believe that the Catalyst resides not just within Citadel, but also within each Relay, and each Reaper capital ship... as a hardware. That's why you can't hack or infect it, and need very specific galactic scale explosion to re-write its personality or destroy it.

hmm I'm not sure that's how it works. But its definitely an interesting thought worth speculating.

Seems that people want to believe that the Catalyst "is" the Citadel. When reality, its an individual being.....that just happens to be the central consciousness of the Reapers who resides within the Citadel.

mhmm .. the leviathans created the catalyst, to solve their problems, the catalyst did it, by harvesting its creators (what irony). the first reaper, build the citadel (well .. in fact, the leviathan did it - at least in their new form) - the catalyst was transfered to the citadel.

maybe the citadel was constructed as some kind of "base of operations". the relay network is also the main source of communication within the galaxy. that would make sense, since the catalyst needs to communicate throughout the galaxy, in order to keep the reapers under control.

or maybe the citadel control room (the disc from where the presidium power jusst out), was an isolated space station before and the reapers just "added" the rest of the citadel to it. that could explain the different design.

the citadel is the catalyst (as stated by vendetta) - up until the ending. untill we meet the starchild, we have no real reason to believe, that the citadel is the home of an almighty ai with a god complex. this stuff is alike to the edi-discussion down in engineering: is the normandy edis body or is edi a passenger? imo, the normandy is edis body - or it became it after edi was installed.


but this is all pure speculation and while i enjoy a bit of if, it would have been better to explain it in the game itself.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 28 novembre 2012 - 11:35 .

[thehomeworld]

To me it sounds and looks like BW changed the ending shortly after some douche leaked 90% of the game including the ending and w/o context fans flipped out not understanding the whole picture of why scenes or dialogue was presented and BW panicked and switched out the ending for what we now have. They foreshadowed the dark energy plot for so long and then abandoned it in ME3.

Modifié par thehomeworld, 28 novembre 2012 - 11:40 .

[Mcfly616]

thehomeworld wrote...

To me it sounds and looks like BW changed the ending shortly after some douche leaked 90% of the game including the ending and w/o context fans flipped out not understanding the whole picture of why scenes or dialogue was presented and BW panicked and switched out the ending for what we now have. They foreshadowed the dark energy plot for so long and then abandoned it in ME3.

No doubt the Dark Energy plot was abandoned. But it was prior to ME3 being finished. I'm pretty sure the leaked ending had nothing to do with Dark Energy. So it was dropped even before then.

[saintjimmy43]

I LOVE PLANESCAPE TORMENT.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Dr_Extrem]

Mcfly616 wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

To me it sounds and looks like BW changed the ending shortly after some douche leaked 90% of the game including the ending and w/o context fans flipped out not understanding the whole picture of why scenes or dialogue was presented and BW panicked and switched out the ending for what we now have. They foreshadowed the dark energy plot for so long and then abandoned it in ME3.

No doubt the Dark Energy plot was abandoned. But it was prior to ME3 being finished. I'm pretty sure the leaked ending had nothing to do with Dark Energy. So it was dropped even before then.

yeah .. drews conceps was not better than "our" ending - but there was continuity within the theme. walters and hudson should (at least) have had dark energy be a part of the ending/plot. the dark energy theme in me2 now feels like a dead end. the ending is isolated from the rest of the series. that is what makes it flawed (aside from the plotholes the starchild adds) and strange.



the easiest solution would have been, to cut the catalyst out of the game and make tim the boss to fight. he could have brought a device to the citadel, who lets him interface with the reapers (like the interface from "overlord"), in order to control them. shepard then could have a non-video gamey bossfight (just like the duels from monkey island), where we determine the outcome with the dialogue wheel. 

they could have implemented so many possible outcomes - like:

sacrifice:
at some point, tim overwhelms shepard, and pushes sheps gun into a position, where shep has to shoot through him/herself, in order to stop tim from stopping the crucible (the shot would destroy a "emergency switch" wich would stop the crucible from firing if pushed but it would tear sheps liver apart, resulting in a slow but certein death) - here, we would have our glorious self sacrifice. the crucible fires, the galaxy is saved - everybody else lives. one self-sacrifice for the many.

destroy:
shepard "fights" with tim and does not sacrifice him/herself (like above) - they fight on and depending on the war assets and paragon/renegade score, shepard gains the upper hand and beats tim. shepard aktivates the crucible later but now. it only works properly, if your assets are high enough. depending on the war assets/crucible assets, shepard gets saved or not, the geth survive or not, the network is toasted or not. many variables. risk/reward.

control:
after tim is brought to justice, shep can either activate the crucible to destroy the reapers (destroy choice) or interface with the control interface from tim. depending on war assets/crucible assets, shepard gains full control over the reapers or not - (even the lowest control, would allow shepard to keep the reapers under control - but at the cost of all of his mental power). shepard could get control over the relay network as well and if the assets are high enough, shepard could even interface with an avatar and regain a physical form (assuming direct control). all depending on the assets.


something like this would have been cool, not too video gamey while it would still cater to a lot of different playstyles.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 29 novembre 2012 - 12:21 .

[Mcfly616]

@ Dr_Extrem

I think the current ending fits just fine with some of the underlying "themes" of the series. (Themes that have been around since the beginning). Some people tend to think they know the Overall Main Theme of the series.....well, there isn't one. There's a bunch.

I wouldn't have minded a TIM boss fight though. Or a longer Priority: Earth with an even more over the top "Suicide Mission" layout than in ME2.

And even though I'm completely satisfied by the current endings, I often wonder what would have been if Drew would've stayed onboard.

People that say the Dark Energy plot would've been "bad" as well, they only ever say: "it wouldn't make sense. The Reapers are trying to save us from Dark Energy, yet they build super structures that emit Dark Energy"

And that's all anybody knows about it. (Definitely not enough to come to a conclusion on how it would've turned out.) I'm sure Drew would've developed, refined, and crafted the story in such a way that it would've been on a whole other level of Epicness. ("epicness"...it's not a word....but whatever, you understand what I'm saying lol)

Who knows, maybe the Dark Energy plot will be revisited in future games.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 29 novembre 2012 - 01:16 .

[ME859]

After recently beating the first game I think one of mistake was killing off Saren. Originally I got the idea from One Piece which makes a habit of not killing characters and bringing them back in different capacities with great success. Allowing him to return as an ally fighting off indoctrination or continuing his role as an agent for the reapers may have been preferable but then again his death was well done.

Personally in looking back at the series Mass Effect 1 had the best executed main plot with Saren and Sovereign trying to open the citadel relay. It was like a good 80's action movie where the villan is properly built up before a final confrontation.

Mass Effect 2 had the best character development, though a mediocre main plot with the collectors, which still worked because the character development was simply outstanding.

Mass Effect 3 was suppose to have the best main plot with the final invasion of the reapers. However the focus on Cerberus was a huge mistake as in terms of screen time and involvement they were the primary antagonist. No one represented the reapers until the last 5 minutes which could have POSSIBLY worked if they hadn't used starchild. Also because of the smaller cast of characters and abundance of autodialog the character development was no where near Mass Effect 2 in terms of quality..

I think that one of the biggest mistakes there aside from establishing no conventional victory was starting the game with the reaper invasion. It would have been like starting Final Fantasy VII with meteor. IE they should have waited until the middle of the game to bring the reapers in full force . And if anything the crucible should have taken away the reaper shields and weakened their weapons and the effectiveness left up to the EMS score. You do that then you don't have to settle for the reaper off button and the fans get their conventional victory .

Modifié par ME859, 29 novembre 2012 - 01:52 .

[Mcfly616]

ME859 wrote...

After recently beating the first game I think one of mistake was killing off Saren. Originally I got the idea from One Piece which makes a habit of not killing characters and bringing them back in different capacities with great success. Allowing him to return as an ally fighting off indoctrination or continuing his role as an agent for the reapers may have been preferable but then again his death was well done.

Personally in looking back at the series Mass Effect 1 had the best executed main plot with Saren and Sovereign trying to open the citadel relay. It was like a good 80's action movie where the villan is properly built up before a final confrontation.

Mass Effect 2 had the best character development, though a mediocre main plot with the collectors, which still worked because the character development was simply outstanding.

Mass Effect 3 was suppose to have the best main plot with the final invasion of the reapers. However the focus on Cerberus was a huge mistake as in terms of screen time and involvement they were the primary antagonist. No one represented the reapers until the last 5 minutes which could have POSSIBLY worked if they hadn't used starchild. Also because of the smaller cast of characters and abundance of autodialog the character development was no where near Mass Effect 2 in terms of quality..

I think that one of the biggest mistakes there aside from establishing no conventional victory was starting the game with the reaper invasion. It would have been like starting Final Fantasy VII with meteor. IE they should have waited until the middle of the game to bring the reapers in full force . And if anything the crucible should have taken away the reaper shields and weakened their weapons and the effectiveness left up to the EMS score. You do that then you don't have to settle for the reaper off button and the fans get their conventional victory .

while you make some good points, I disagree with a few.

Particularly conventional victory.....it was never going to happen. Even if the Crucible took down the Reapers shields. Their Armada outnumbers the united fleets of the galaxy(not to mention that they know everything about our technology. And they are far more advanced. ME3 shouldve started with the invasion and it did. If they invaded halfway through the game, and the entire war ended in half a game, that wouldve been weak, as well as completely diminishing the greatest threat in galactic history. Hell, if anything it should've been drawn out more. If anything the Reaper invasion shouldve happened in ME2. (No need to come up with an enemy out of left field and make the entire game a glorified side-story....but they did)

And I get what your saying about the involvement of Cerberus in the third game. I think what the writers were trying to do, was show the in-fighting of the galaxy, demonstrate how organics are still a threat to one another amidst the greatest threat ever. Sort of like how The Walking Dead tv show, demonstrates that the living characters are great threats to one another even during the Zombie Apocalypse

[Applepie_Svk]

EXMEFan wrote...

I can't believe that people don't realize the beginning and end of this conversation lies in what Sovereign says vs what the Star Child says.

It shows a drastic change in direction.....

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”
Adolf Hitler


”The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”

JFK

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 29 novembre 2012 - 06:42 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

yeah, Leviathan states that they created the Catalyst, the Catalyst created the Reapers and then had them create the Relay Network. The Citadel is the master relay (and probably the first) The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. The Catalyst is not the Citadel. The Catalyst only resides within it.

I also believe that the Catalyst resides not just within Citadel, but also within each Relay, and each Reaper capital ship... as a hardware. That's why you can't hack or infect it, and need very specific galactic scale explosion to re-write its personality or destroy it.

hmm I'm not sure that's how it works. But its definitely an interesting thought worth speculating.

Seems that people want to believe that the Catalyst "is" the Citadel. When reality, its an individual being.....that just happens to be the central consciousness of the Reapers who resides within the Citadel.

mhmm .. the leviathans created the catalyst, to solve their problems, the catalyst did it, by harvesting its creators (what irony). the first reaper, build the citadel (well .. in fact, the leviathan did it - at least in their new form) - the catalyst was transfered to the citadel.

maybe the citadel was constructed as some kind of "base of operations". the relay network is also the main source of communication within the galaxy. that would make sense, since the catalyst needs to communicate throughout the galaxy, in order to keep the reapers under control.

or maybe the citadel control room (the disc from where the presidium power jusst out), was an isolated space station before and the reapers just "added" the rest of the citadel to it. that could explain the different design.

the citadel is the catalyst (as stated by vendetta) - up until the ending. untill we meet the starchild, we have no real reason to believe, that the citadel is the home of an almighty ai with a god complex. this stuff is alike to the edi-discussion down in engineering: is the normandy edis body or is edi a passenger? imo, the normandy is edis body - or it became it after edi was installed.


but this is all pure speculation and while i enjoy a bit of if, it would have been better to explain it in the game itself.

False, Leviathans said that they have created an intelligence - they never gave that intelligence either name or they knew that intelligence is part of Crucible or intelligence found a name on its own. As much is that statement false, there is another part of web and that´s the Crucible, which brings few more answers or questions ? Have it your way...

- Catalyst is not real - IT, intelligence might still exists

- Catalyst is real but Leviathans didn´t know about his name

- Catalyst is real, and Leviathans were dishonest and knew about his name as much they were guiding other lesser species in building of Crucible

- Catalyst was dishonest and he is an intelligence, he was alsore responsibile for Crucible

- both Catalyst and Leviathans were dishonest, and they knew about Crucible

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 29 novembre 2012 - 06:57 .

[Seival]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

yeah, Leviathan states that they created the Catalyst, the Catalyst created the Reapers and then had them create the Relay Network. The Citadel is the master relay (and probably the first) The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. The Catalyst is not the Citadel. The Catalyst only resides within it.

I also believe that the Catalyst resides not just within Citadel, but also within each Relay, and each Reaper capital ship... as a hardware. That's why you can't hack or infect it, and need very specific galactic scale explosion to re-write its personality or destroy it.

hmm I'm not sure that's how it works. But its definitely an interesting thought worth speculating.

Seems that people want to believe that the Catalyst "is" the Citadel. When reality, its an individual being.....that just happens to be the central consciousness of the Reapers who resides within the Citadel.

Well, and it's logical for such consciousness to have a lot of backups, located in both mobile and static Reaper platforms. That improves its survivability greatly.

Modifié par Seival, 29 novembre 2012 - 11:09 .

[Seival]

saintjimmy43 wrote...

I LOVE PLANESCAPE TORMENT.

Me too. And I love Mass Effect trilogy just as much 

[Mcfly616]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

yeah, Leviathan states that they created the Catalyst, the Catalyst created the Reapers and then had them create the Relay Network. The Citadel is the master relay (and probably the first) The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. The Catalyst is not the Citadel. The Catalyst only resides within it.

I also believe that the Catalyst resides not just within Citadel, but also within each Relay, and each Reaper capital ship... as a hardware. That's why you can't hack or infect it, and need very specific galactic scale explosion to re-write its personality or destroy it.

hmm I'm not sure that's how it works. But its definitely an interesting thought worth speculating.

Seems that people want to believe that the Catalyst "is" the Citadel. When reality, its an individual being.....that just happens to be the central consciousness of the Reapers who resides within the Citadel.

mhmm .. the leviathans created the catalyst, to solve their problems, the catalyst did it, by harvesting its creators (what irony). the first reaper, build the citadel (well .. in fact, the leviathan did it - at least in their new form) - the catalyst was transfered to the citadel.

maybe the citadel was constructed as some kind of "base of operations". the relay network is also the main source of communication within the galaxy. that would make sense, since the catalyst needs to communicate throughout the galaxy, in order to keep the reapers under control.

or maybe the citadel control room (the disc from where the presidium power jusst out), was an isolated space station before and the reapers just "added" the rest of the citadel to it. that could explain the different design.

the citadel is the catalyst (as stated by vendetta) - up until the ending. untill we meet the starchild, we have no real reason to believe, that the citadel is the home of an almighty ai with a god complex. this stuff is alike to the edi-discussion down in engineering: is the normandy edis body or is edi a passenger? imo, the normandy is edis body - or it became it after edi was installed.


but this is all pure speculation and while i enjoy a bit of if, it would have been better to explain it in the game itself.

False, Leviathans said that they have created an intelligence - they never gave that intelligence either name or they knew that intelligence is part of Crucible or intelligence found a name on its own. As much is that statement false, there is another part of web and that´s the Crucible, which brings few more answers or questions ? Have it your way...

- Catalyst is not real - IT, intelligence might still exists

- Catalyst is real but Leviathans didn´t know about his name

- Catalyst is real, and Leviathans were dishonest and knew about his name as much they were guiding other lesser species in building of Crucible

- Catalyst was dishonest and he is an intelligence, he was alsore responsibile for Crucible

- both Catalyst and Leviathans were dishonest, and they knew about Crucible

lol do you just like to take your wild speculations and state them as if they were facts?

Modifié par Mcfly616, 29 novembre 2012 - 06:34 .

[jkflipflopDAO]

Seival wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

yeah, Leviathan states that they created the Catalyst, the Catalyst created the Reapers and then had them create the Relay Network. The Citadel is the master relay (and probably the first) The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. The Catalyst is not the Citadel. The Catalyst only resides within it.

I also believe that the Catalyst resides not just within Citadel, but also within each Relay, and each Reaper capital ship... as a hardware. That's why you can't hack or infect it, and need very specific galactic scale explosion to re-write its personality or destroy it.

hmm I'm not sure that's how it works. But its definitely an interesting thought worth speculating.

Seems that people want to believe that the Catalyst "is" the Citadel. When reality, its an individual being.....that just happens to be the central consciousness of the Reapers who resides within the Citadel.

Well, and it's logical for such consciousness to have a lot of backups, located in both mobile and static Reaper platforms. That improves its survivability greatly.

Right. So an AI that built a master station to install itself in wouldn't wire himself up to all the systems. No, that would be too easy. Except the magic elevator he wired himself into just incase some organic happens to pass out in the that one exact spot. Now that's worth wiring yourself to. Screw the nuicance systems like the "REAP / Not REAP" switch. 

WTF is that crap? How do you honestly swallow that garbage?

Modifié par jkflipflopDAO, 29 novembre 2012 - 06:47 .

[Seival]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

yeah, Leviathan states that they created the Catalyst, the Catalyst created the Reapers and then had them create the Relay Network. The Citadel is the master relay (and probably the first) The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. The Catalyst is not the Citadel. The Catalyst only resides within it.

I also believe that the Catalyst resides not just within Citadel, but also within each Relay, and each Reaper capital ship... as a hardware. That's why you can't hack or infect it, and need very specific galactic scale explosion to re-write its personality or destroy it.

hmm I'm not sure that's how it works. But its definitely an interesting thought worth speculating.

Seems that people want to believe that the Catalyst "is" the Citadel. When reality, its an individual being.....that just happens to be the central consciousness of the Reapers who resides within the Citadel.

Well, and it's logical for such consciousness to have a lot of backups, located in both mobile and static Reaper platforms. That improves its survivability greatly.

Right. So an AI that built a master station to install itself in wouldn't wire himself up to all the systems. No, that would be too easy. Except the magic elevator he wired himself into just incase some organic happens to pass out in the that one exact spot. Now that's worth wiring yourself to. Screw the nuicance systems like the "REAP / Not REAP" switch. 

WTF is that crap? How do you honestly swallow that garbage?

Do you realize that there was no "magic elevator", "conversation in the vacuum", "control rods", "pillar of light", and "glass tube"? The whole conversation with the Catalyst is mental, I think it's obvious. In that conversation Catalyst just created an "environment" which would look familiar enough to Shapard. The similar thing happened in Overlord, Geth Concensus, and during conversation with the Leviathan...

...And when someone uses mental abilities on you to talk, it doesn't mean he wants to mind-control you. Leviathan proved that.

[Dr_Extrem]

Seival wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

yeah, Leviathan states that they created the Catalyst, the Catalyst created the Reapers and then had them create the Relay Network. The Citadel is the master relay (and probably the first) The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. The Catalyst is not the Citadel. The Catalyst only resides within it.

I also believe that the Catalyst resides not just within Citadel, but also within each Relay, and each Reaper capital ship... as a hardware. That's why you can't hack or infect it, and need very specific galactic scale explosion to re-write its personality or destroy it.

hmm I'm not sure that's how it works. But its definitely an interesting thought worth speculating.

Seems that people want to believe that the Catalyst "is" the Citadel. When reality, its an individual being.....that just happens to be the central consciousness of the Reapers who resides within the Citadel.

Well, and it's logical for such consciousness to have a lot of backups, located in both mobile and static Reaper platforms. That improves its survivability greatly.

Right. So an AI that built a master station to install itself in wouldn't wire himself up to all the systems. No, that would be too easy. Except the magic elevator he wired himself into just incase some organic happens to pass out in the that one exact spot. Now that's worth wiring yourself to. Screw the nuicance systems like the "REAP / Not REAP" switch. 

WTF is that crap? How do you honestly swallow that garbage?

Do you realize that there was no "magic elevator", "conversation in the vacuum", "control rods", "pillar of light", and "glass tube"? The whole conversation with the Catalyst is mental, I think it's obvious. In that conversation Catalyst just created an "environment" which would look familiar enough to Shapard. The similar thing happened in Overlord, Geth Concensus, and during conversation with the Leviathan...

...And when someone uses mental abilities on you to talk, it doesn't mean he wants to mind-control you. Leviathan proved that.

this is your headcanon - it is neither confirmed, nor declined that the conversation is in sheps head. it is our speculation.

we donrt know what and where it really happens - speculations.