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[KwangtungTiger]

Greylycantrope wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...
Again proof is shown but seival fails to see it. It makes no sense for them to deny such a statement.

Must be your first Seival thread.

Yes.........Yes it is. 

[Seival]

Lizardviking wrote...

Seival wrote...
Well, something like "control rods", "pillar of light", and "glass tube" are vital Citadel systems, which can't be left unprotected. Such things must be hided deep within the station core under the thickest armor and the strongest barriers. But somehow, we see them on the station's sheathing, where any patrol ship can find and destroy them. This can't happen in reality...

Or maybe it can because the writing sucks and Bioware never planned anything ahead of time.

...The whole environment in the final conversation is actually a giant dialogue wheel, if we look at it from above. "Magical elevator" and the whole conversation with the Catalyst is symbolical. You cooperate with the Catalyst to find and apply the new solution, or refuse to cooperate and let the Cycled Harvests to continue. It's logical that such things are better to be shown as some kind of dream sequences, because that looks and feels epic.

...Besides, Shepard is terribly wounded and lost consciousness. She has no strength to talk in regular ways in the end. But mental converstation is possible even in this case.

And the council chamber kinda looks like a Reaper. Both proves abseloutly nothing.

Let us not forget that according to you. The catalyst lies to Shepard and says that he is on the Citadel when in reality, Shepard is in a dream. Since he is honest according to you, why would he lie about this? And since it is a dream, why does control or synthesis kill him exactly?

Also. Would you mind telling me where Shepard is going in the last elevator ride?

"Bad writing" is not an option. Mass Effect Story was created by team of professional writers. So, there is only one possible conclusion here: conversation with the Catalyst is mental and symbolical.

Actually, I always said that the Catalyst has no reasons to lie to Shepard in the end. Among other things Catalyst indeed said that Shepard is on the Citadel, and that was correct despite the conversation is mental. Shepard is still on the Citadel, but lying unconscious near dead Anderson.

To make Control or Synthesis happen Shepard has to be harvested and processed. And Catalyst can only start the process if Shepard agrees to sacrifice herself. In both cases Catalyst remains intact, but in case of Control it starts to think and act like Shepard, and gains all her memories/experience...

...Destroy doesn't require Shepard's harvesting/processing, but have the same other requirements: Catalyst can't activate Destroy without Shepard's help, and Shepard can't activate Destroy without Catalyst's help.

All endings except Refusal are very much about cooperation and hard moral decisions in fact, like the entire title itself.

Modifié par Seival, 02 décembre 2012 - 05:47 .

[Redbelle]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...
Again proof is shown but seival fails to see it. It makes no sense for them to deny such a statement.

Must be your first Seival thread.

Yes.........Yes it is. 

Everything you are going through right now, I went through with him 2 month's ago. It'll cycle and everything you say will be rejected in favour of Normandy test jumps, synthesis 'reservation' (or concentration) camps, a total disregard for human rights, the rejection of humanitist values in favour of a quick fix and in general, disregard for all opinion that does not match his own.

I'll tell you something I took awhile to learn long ago.

Get out of this thread and do something productive with your life! Or fall into this......

And @ Seiv, I'm tired of arguing so I'm going to set you striaight on a few things and hope it sinks in.

Professional's, even writers, can monumentally mess up doing what they do on occasion. And the ending of ME3 was one such occasion.

No hard evidence exists that Shepard is in a dreamstate. We have seen Shepard's dreamstate several times as he chases the young boy. The ending shares none of the environmental qualities or contextual qualities.

I'm not going to bother with control or synthesis. Some of what you say could be and could not be seen to happen. It's subjective and open to interpretation. Your mistake is to render your 'opinion' in absolute terms and defend it with further conjecture.

You don't seem to have put alot of thought into destroy. This is the first time I've seen you even tip a nod at it. Either way, unless you are prepared to put even a spark of faith in the human condition that we can overcome our failing's when it matters the most, destroy will remain the right choice with the wrong outcome. As the Catalyst hold's all my synthentic comrades, now more people than appliance's, hostage.

As for that last statement.......... You still refuse refusal? It was the option the fans of ME wanted! Your refusal to see the benefit's of refusing to be a party to StarBrat's galactic genocidal makeover set's you apart from the rest who see every coloured option offered along with the barrel of a gun aimed at the galaxy as a false choice.

But then again. Your totally over the moon with being violated in mind, body and spirit by willingly offering yourself up to someone else's perception of perfection. You can be more on your own and in the company of others. There is no need for a magic switch.

That is what I think the fans tried to BW when they asked for refuse. And BW listened, but they did not hear. And we are still let down but moving on.

Modifié par Redbelle, 02 décembre 2012 - 06:10 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Redbelle speaks truth. Save yourself, it's too late for some of us!

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 02 décembre 2012 - 05:56 .

[Veganterror]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Redbelle speaks truth. Save yourself, it's too late for some of us!

In essence then, it's like talking to a wall? This is quite the amusing thread to follow.

[Dr_Extrem]

run while you can ... even the mass effect lore itself is not save here.

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

"Bad writing" is not an option. Mass Effect Story was created by team of professional writers. So, there is only one possible conclusion here: conversation with the Catalyst is mental and symbolical.

Meh... meh brayn....

BioWare can't make mistakes? Jesus H. Christ, you peddling some sort of agenda here, looking for a singed t-shirt or a job or some sh*t? 

F*ck.

[shodiswe]

Shaira's prophesy does fit AI shepard somewhat, however... I think she's just talking crap, trying to make her customers feel good about themselves by telling them how great they are and how great they will become as time goes on.

After hearing abou Shepard being back from the dead she feels the need to brag about her "abilities" since, for once she was kind of right... and then maybe again... But it's not hard to belive that a very sucessful and famous individual can continue hoarding in sucesses.

[The Night Mammoth]

Veganterror wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Redbelle speaks truth. Save yourself, it's too late for some of us!

In essence then, it's like talking to a wall? This is quite the amusing thread to follow.

Yes, a wall with some... interesting... theories about the meaning of certain things. 

Like Normandy test jumps, the Crucible being a giant biotic amp, it's all a dream, triple synthesis, and pseudo-american Indian reservations for those who object to being ascedended by the big ray of green. 

[KwangtungTiger]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

"Bad writing" is not an option. Mass Effect Story was created by team of professional writers. So, there is only one possible conclusion here: conversation with the Catalyst is mental and symbolical.

Meh... meh brayn....

BioWare can't make mistakes? Jesus H. Christ, you peddling some sort of agenda here, looking for a singed t-shirt or a job or some sh*t? 

F*ck.

Yeah.....there is so much wrong with this statement nevermind the absolute he adds at the end makes me think that im having a discussion with my 5 year old son ( maybe thats alittle too mean but had to say it ).

[Veganterror]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Veganterror wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Redbelle speaks truth. Save yourself, it's too late for some of us!

In essence then, it's like talking to a wall? This is quite the amusing thread to follow.

Yes, a wall with some... interesting... theories about the meaning of certain things. 

Like Normandy test jumps, the Crucible being a giant biotic amp, it's all a dream, triple synthesis, and pseudo-american Indian reservations for those who object to being ascedended by the big ray of green. 

Normandy test jumps?

[Seival]

Dislikers and haters dislike and hate all I'm saying here, on BSN, just the same way as they dislike/hate everything about ME3 ending.

Does that hurt me? Not at all. It makes me feel that I did right conclusions about the ending eventually, and understood everything what BioWare writers wanted to say to us 100% correctly...

...Also I 100% experienced  by myself what exactly BioWare employees feel while under all of that unconstructive criticism. BioWare has my sympathy. And haters look like a bunch of ignorant kids... Dislikers? Well, they are at least reasonable.

Modifié par Seival, 02 décembre 2012 - 06:30 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Veganterror wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Veganterror wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Redbelle speaks truth. Save yourself, it's too late for some of us!

In essence then, it's like talking to a wall? This is quite the amusing thread to follow.

Yes, a wall with some... interesting... theories about the meaning of certain things. 

Like Normandy test jumps, the Crucible being a giant biotic amp, it's all a dream, triple synthesis, and pseudo-american Indian reservations for those who object to being ascedended by the big ray of green. 

Normandy test jumps?

He theorized before the EC that the Normandy's flight from the Crucible wave was actually the test of a newly rebuilt Mass Relay. 

The arguments that you can imagine popped up, like how there's no obvious jump in time between it and the previous scene, or why the Normandy and the crew are the ones testing it being composed of irrelevant scientists and James, and how the beams are different colors for each ending choice, were all ignored. 

[The Night Mammoth]

Playa' Haters beware, Seival's on tha loose.

[Seival]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

He theorized before the EC that the Normandy's flight from the Crucible wave was actually the test of a newly rebuilt Mass Relay.

Yes, that was a pre-EC attempt to prove that Mass Relays were not destroyed forever, and support of the Normandy crash scene in general. When everyone on BSN wanted the scene to be removed, I was the only one who insisted that the scene must remain in game. Supporting Normandy crash scene was right thing to do...

...Eventually I was right about Mass Relays and about the fact that scene will not be removed, but wrong about test jump attempt. But I liked BioWare's version on the matter much more than test jump.

[fr33stylez]

Seival wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

Seival wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

What is this discussion about?

It is about if everything about ME3 ending was planned by BioWare when they worked on ME1, or not.

"I think people would be sort of surprised by how little we defined in the upcoming games. So in Mass Effect 1, it was really only a couple of paragraphs about what we thought Mass Effect 2 would be and even less of what we thought Mass Effect 3 would be. And it was the same thing when we where doing 2. It was really about having stakes in the ground about certain things. We knew that Mass Effect 3 would be about, the Reapers returning. We knew that it would be about the galactic conflict that would ensue from that, and we knew that it would be the end of Shepard’s story, one way or the other."
- Mac Walters

Source: http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

/Speculation

I know about such interview. But that could easily mean they just don't want to admit they had planned everything from the beginning.

lol.

Why people still take these threads seriously when Sieval's first few threads were clearly trolling is beyond me.

[KwangtungTiger]

Seival wrote...

Dislikers and haters dislike and hate all I'm saying here, on BSN, just the same way as they dislike/hate everything about ME3 ending.

Does that hurt me? Not at all. It makes me feel that I did right conclusions about the ending eventually, and understood everything what BioWare writers wanted to say to us 100% correctly...

...Also I 100% experienced  by myself what exactly BioWare employees feel while under all of that unconstructive criticism. BioWare has my sympathy. And haters look like a bunch of ignorant kids... Dislikers? Well, they are at least reasonable.

The problem here is your one of those haters whether you believe or not. You have shown in other threads nothing but disdain for other theories ( basically going as far as calling them stupid ) yet can't see the obvious flaws in your own theory.

At this point I've learned my lesson with you. I would say it was fun but feel I may have to break open the scotch and have a couple drinks to get rid of this headache.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Seival wrote...
"Bad writing" is not an option. Mass Effect Story was created by team of professional writers. So, there is only one possible conclusion here: conversation with the Catalyst is mental and symbolical.

George Lucas is a proffesional too. That did not stop the prequels having god-awful stories.

We even have a quote last page that shows that Bioware was making it up as they went. There was never any grand plan for the trilogy beyond "Shepard stops the Reapers".

Actually, I always said that the Catalyst has no reasons to lie to Shepard in the end. Among other things Catalyst indeed said that Shepard is on the Citadel, and that was correct despite the conversation is mental. Shepard is still on the Citadel, but lying unconscious near dead Anderson.

To make Control or Synthesis happen Shepard has to be harvested and processed. And Catalyst can only start the process if Shepard agrees to sacrifice herself. In both cases Catalyst remains intact, but in case of Control it starts to think and act like Shepard, and gains all her memories/experience...

...Destroy doesn't require Shepard's harvesting/processing, but have the same other requirements: Catalyst can't activate Destroy without Shepard's help, and Shepard can't activate Destroy without Catalyst's help.

All endings except Refusal are very much about cooperation and hard moral decisions in fact, like the entire title itself.

Shepard asks where he is in context of waking up in this new area, he is obviously not asking where he was before since he already knew that. So yeah, the Catalyst does lie since he says that he is currently on the Citadel. Instead of that he is in a dream, but his unconcious body is still on the station. Which would have been the true answer.

Unless of course the Catalyst is too stupid to grasp Shepard's question.

And where is the complex machinery necessary to do control or synthesis? I did not see anything on my up to the control panel. Or perhaps its all there in the room which the elevator takes us to which we never get to see or hear about?

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

He theorized before the EC that the Normandy's flight from the Crucible wave was actually the test of a newly rebuilt Mass Relay.

Yes, that was a pre-EC attempt to prove that Mass Relays were not destroyed forever, and support of the Normandy crash scene in general. When everyone on BSN wanted the scene to be removed, I was the only one who insisted that the scene must remain in game. Supporting Normandy crash scene was right thing to do...

...Eventually I was right about Mass Relays and about the fact that scene will not be removed, but wrong about test jump attempt. But I liked BioWare's version on the matter much more than test jump.

It was a stupid theory disproved on the first page, the other thirty or so pages did nothing but make you look like an arrogant moron, an impression that hasn't changed. 

[Seboist]

Seival wrote...

"Bad writing" is not an option. Mass Effect Story was created by team of professional writers. So, there is only one possible conclusion here: conversation with the Catalyst is mental and symbolical.

The only difference between the "professional" writers you speak of and fan fiction writers on fanfiction.net is that one collects a check and the other doesn't.

No sci-fi writer worth their salt would write bottom of the barrel pulp schlock like killing the protaganist as  merely a cheap means to fast forward two years or humans being turned into goo to form a space terminator because of "genetic diversity".

Modifié par Seboist, 02 décembre 2012 - 07:51 .

[Twinzam.V]

Seboist wrote...

Seival wrote...

"Bad writing" is not an option. Mass Effect Story was created by team of professional writers. So, there is only one possible conclusion here: conversation with the Catalyst is mental and symbolical.

The only difference between the "professional" writers you speak of and fan fiction writers on fanfiction.net is that one collects a check and the other doesn't.

No sci-fi writer worth their salt would write bottom of the barrel pulp schlock like killing the protaganist as  merely a cheap means to fast forward two years or humans being turned into goo to form a space terminator because of "genetic diversity".

Stephenie Meyer could be considered a "professional writer".
Can she be hired to write ME4 too?

[Eludajae]

They said as much in several interview, even before ME 1 was released that this will be a series of 3 games. They knew the plot ahead of time.

[Twinzam.V]

Eludajae wrote...

They said as much in several interview, even before ME 1 was released that this will be a series of 3 games. They knew the plot ahead of time.

But the plot was modified in the course of making those games.
It was so modified that was enough to remove Drew Karpyshyn from the lead writer team and put in on SWTOR.

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 02 décembre 2012 - 08:02 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

KwangtungTiger wrote...
The problem here is your one of those haters whether you believe or not. You have shown in other threads nothing but disdain for other theories ( basically going as far as calling them stupid ) yet can't see the obvious flaws in your own theory.

At this point I've learned my lesson with you. I would say it was fun but feel I may have to break open the scotch and have a couple drinks to get rid of this headache.

One of the best ideas I've heard all day.

Twinzam.V wrote...
Stephenie Meyer could be considered a "professional writer".
Can she be hired to write ME4 too?

Only if she's made a character writer

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 02 décembre 2012 - 08:09 .