181 réponses à ce sujet

[Peranor]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Companies with monopolies BECOME lazy when they stay monopolies. Monopolies that have no competition have no reason to innovate and have little reason to keep customers happy.

When Steam started, digital delivery was not popular and its main competition was storefronts. Now it dominates digital delivery solutions, and as a customer I want to look at alternatives when I'm after a certain game. Consider DAO now. Steam price? 9 euros. Origin price? 5 euros. Why should I be forced to consider only Steam when Origin is offering me a choice.

Consumer choice is always good, and I'll never hear a reasonable argument otherwise.

it's true. Consumer choice is always good. 
But I'd hate it if I in the future had to install one separate client for each publisher and distributor out there.

[Chevyboy88]

TrollBerzerker01 wrote...

Chevyboy88 wrote...


Failed console or not, DRM does NOTHING but punsh the consumer. While I agree that something should be done, DRM is not the answer as every form of DRM can and has been cracked so it does little more than slow down pirates, meanwhile the paying consumer gets to deal with the "necessary evil".

Steam I think, is a somewhat happy middle ground, while it is still DRM at it's core it does offer enough benefit for the vast majority to overlook that fact. All other forums of DRM are archaic and sould be scrapped for a system that actually works or at least doesn't punish the paying customers.

Equally naive to say that DRM is necessary.

People like to say pirates are fast to crack it without realizing the difference between a game with no DRM and a game that pirates have cracked.

No DRM means EVERYONE can pirate the game, and one person buying a copy of the game means every single one of their friends also now has a copy. With pirates you still have to go through the trouble of cracking the game, and if it's an online game then you won't be able to play unless you're only doing games with friends using hamachi or something.

Yes, DRM punishes the consumer more than the pirate. Yes, DRM causes people to seek piracy. But people only really care if the form of DRM is unfair. Steam and even Origin are incredible services and very nice solutions to the problem. People don't generally try to pirate a game that uses Steam as DRM, only games which limit your CD key uses.

I agree with you as I said earlier, we seem to agree that forms of DRM aside from Steam/Origin are unfair and the system needs some sort of overhaul or mass switch to those platforms. What you are incorrect about is just how easy it is for ANYONE to pirate a DRM game. It takes one person to crack it, realse the crack and it becomes as easy to pirate as a non DRM game. Anyone with the ability to access google can figure this out pretty quickly.

Anyways this has gone way OT, I'm actually surprised the thread is still open, so I won't be posting further on the matter.

[joker_jack]

Until EA goes under, you will have to suffer origin.

[Seifer006]

joker_jack wrote...

Until EA goes under, you will have to suffer origin.

I won't suffer. This is the last EA title I'll buy. If EA is going to make their games exculsive. Then they'll lose me as a consumer who stayed with Bioware since the dayz of KOTOR & ME1

[TrollBerzerker01]

bydoritos wrote...


and about the DRM issue.
again, on PC is different. Do you know why DRM will never work? because people will break it for the challenge.
Big publishers need to stop trying to fight against this because it's a lost war and they are hurting legitimate
costumers... costumers that will NEVER again buy their product (i'm lookin at you microsoft and your stupid
GFWL) 
And what CD projekt had tried to do is to create good will with the gamers.. guess what? IT WORKED! GoG is a
sucess and most of their games don't have DRM.  (i actually think that all of their games are DRM free.)

I refer you to my other post a bit above this one where I responded to another guy.

GoG is a success because they sell (as the name implies) good old games that go for pretty cheap.

[K_Os2]

TrollBerzerker01 wrote...

K_Os2 wrote...

So you took a screenshot from Steam when it was first getting going and admittedly terrible. That's not Steam in its current form.

May I just say, though? God bless the Bioware mods for tolerating this thread.

I only used that screen as an example but they still do occur now and then. I don't make it a habit to take screenshots every dc. Yeah, I remember how bad it was and that's what bother me with people senselessly bashing Origin, while being oblivious to how bad steam was if not worse at launch. Steam still has it share of problem like the client locking up if you alt-tab out of you game.

Modifié par K_Os2, 26 novembre 2012 - 12:42 .

[Seifer006]

K_Os2 wrote...

Steam still has it share of problem like the client locking up if you alt-tab out of you game.

never had that problem...

Now Origin: Many times...

[TrollBerzerker01]

K_Os2 wrote...

I only used that screen as an example but they still do occur now and then. I don't make it a habit to take screenshots every dc. Yeah, I remember how bad it was and that's what bother me with people senselessly bashing Origin, while being oblivious to how bad steam was if not worse at launch. Steam still has it share of problem like the client locking up if you alt-tab out of you game.

Well the thing is that Steam was developed by an indie company who was just starting out, where Origin was made by the second highest grossing video game company in the world.

In other words, Steam had an excuse, Origin doesn't.

[bydoritos]

DeathIsHere wrote...

bydoritos wrote...

TrollBerzerker01 wrote...

bydoritos wrote...

Don't get me wrong, i don't like origin too, but I hate origin for the same reasons why I hate steam.
(why do I need a third party software to run the game that I bought) I do love steam sales though, but origin does some amazing sales as well.

Because in the age of the Internet there has to be DRM. Remember the Dreamcast? Remember how piracy basically killed that console?

Steam and Origin are the most fair forms of DRM out there. Or would you rather have a limited number of installations per CD key? Because I dunno about you, but having to log into Steam (where I can chat with my friends and browse the internet without having to alt-tab the game) is a lot better than that.

In terms of Steam vs Origin, Origin is simply an inferior, buggier version of Steam. Both are still better than GFWL though.

 
 
About your comments  on the DRM issue.
here's the thing, do you know Cd projekt?  well you should, they did the amazing the witcher series...
guess what those crazy nerds did... they had the balls to sell the witcher 2 on PC WITHOUT DRM.
it sold quite a lot of copies in fact.
so, what you are saying that basicaly DRM is a necessary evil, to stop piracy, it's not true at all.
gamers don't like BS DRM softwares, and if the DRM hurts the player enjoyment too much they will go out of their way to disable the DRM.

and even though I would agree that steam and origin are the less invasive ways of DRM, they don't remove third
party DRM.
like many games on steam and on Origin as well, also have GFWL so, it's just another barrier for legitimate
gamers.


 
Also about "origin being a bug version of steam, I'm sorry but I think this BS.. I have way more problems with steam that I ever had with origin (like games missing from my library/cd keys not working/ downloading speed limits/ the total BS offline mode of Steam and all that.
And I do know a lot of problems that origin have, but steam is definitly not the perfect software that people here claim to be.

Nobody ever claimed Steam was perfect but you're missing the point here. For one thing, I explained the offline mode of Steam in my last post, too lazy to redo that. The point is, Origin isn't nearly as good as Steam even with Steam's shortcomings. Origin has even been worse than it is now (I flat out refused to even consider it at one point when they had it in their EULA that they snoop through your PC and send information to third party companies without your consent). They got villainized for that and rightfully so, took it out real quick. This is the issue with EA. They're trying to do it for the money plain and simple. If Steam had never been commercially successful, EA wouldn't even try it. They're ripping off Steam and failing at it.

As for the DRM, I'd much rather have Steam authenticate a game once than say Assassin's Creed II's always on DRM where if you disconnected from the internet you lost all progress. That doesn't sound fun. Does Steam fix that? No. But it gives developers the chance to keep it from being enacted in the first place. Not every developer is gonna jump to CD Projekt's side and get rid of DRM (I agree with you on that point, DRM is pointless) so Steam (and Origin, even) is there to give the developers the option to have a good DRM that doesn't kill everything for the players. I haven't had any trouble with any game I've purchased on Steam and I've bought quite a few.

this guy did, and some others as well.. maybe not exaclty saying that it's perfect.but with coments implying that steam is perfect.. sugesting that"you must have POS computer to have problems with steam" suggest that the only problems that steam can have is because of the players, which is not true)

Seifer006 wrote..

StrawHatMoose wrote...
Steam sucks, I only buy off of Steam when their prices are lower than Gamefly.  

Steam Rulez. You must have a POS comp if you have problems with Steam

and thank you for providing a good argument "Deathishere"
(and not just trolling like some people here are doing saying "ahh steam is better herp derp....)

I do agree with some of your points against origin.
as I said i hate origin, but I don't have any love for steam either.

Modifié par bydoritos, 26 novembre 2012 - 12:54 .

[bydoritos]

TrollBerzerker01 wrote...

bydoritos wrote...


and about the DRM issue.
again, on PC is different. Do you know why DRM will never work? because people will break it for the challenge.
Big publishers need to stop trying to fight against this because it's a lost war and they are hurting legitimate
costumers... costumers that will NEVER again buy their product (i'm lookin at you microsoft and your stupid
GFWL) 
And what CD projekt had tried to do is to create good will with the gamers.. guess what? IT WORKED! GoG is a
sucess and most of their games don't have DRM.  (i actually think that all of their games are DRM free.)

I refer you to my other post a bit above this one where I responded to another guy.

GoG is a success because they sell (as the name implies) good old games that go for pretty cheap.

Yes, good old games, DRM free.. remember that
and if you think about it.. by your logic saying that without DRM people would just pirated.. .they could find the same games "cheaper" on torrent sites.. they don't do it because they know that they have to support the developer and PC gaming.

[DeathIsHere]

TrollBerzerker01 wrote...

K_Os2 wrote...

I only used that screen as an example but they still do occur now and then. I don't make it a habit to take screenshots every dc. Yeah, I remember how bad it was and that's what bother me with people senselessly bashing Origin, while being oblivious to how bad steam was if not worse at launch. Steam still has it share of problem like the client locking up if you alt-tab out of you game.

Well the thing is that Steam was developed by an indie company who was just starting out, where Origin was made by the second highest grossing video game company in the world.

In other words, Steam had an excuse, Origin doesn't.

Origin also had a blueprint to follow. Steam was the first real major platform of its kind so everything about Steam was a new thing for the entire industry.

[Seifer006]

bydoritos wrote...


and thank you for providing a good argument
(and not just trolling like some people here are doing saying "ahh steam is better herp derp....)

I do agree with some of your points against origin.
as I said i hate origin, but I don't have any love for steam either.

NP.

but Im not the guy who likes to spend hours on BSN typing out "elaborated" answers just to prove a point. I already have to that (call college & life) anyway - Im surprised you even bothred to comeback to this thread

[N7-RedFox]

Its as if someone grabbed a Mass Effect 3 disc and threw it into a big steaming pile of doo doo. The game still remains a work of art... but it is still covered in ****. That **** being Origin of course.

My Mass Effect 1 and 2 games are on Steam. Steam is more like a pedestal that lifts games higher and cheers them on.

At least, those are the two mental pictures in my mind anyway.

[Seifer006]

CaptainTeabag wrote...

The game still remains a work of ar.

a lot of fans will disagree with you on that (Im one of them)

[Peranor]

Yeah, I have ME1 and 2 on Steam. I wanted ME3 on there as well.

[Barneyk]

Steam is FAR from perfect, but it is a lot more stable than Origin at the moment.

Origin is FAR better than steam was at the same age though.

Origin has some features that are superior to Steam, but overall Steam is the better product at the moment.

[DeathIsHere]

bydoritos wrote...

and thank you for providing a good argument "Deathishere"
(and not just trolling like some people here are doing saying "ahh steam is better herp derp....)

I do agree with some of your points against origin.
as I said i hate origin, but I don't have any love for steam either.

Opinions, not gonna try and force somebody to like Steam or what not. I defend it because, personally, I've gotten a chance to try some really awesome games thanks to Steam. I hated it when I first bought Skyrim as I'm not a fan of forced software in anything. But it grew on me. xD 

[bydoritos]

Seifer006 wrote...

bydoritos wrote...


and thank you for providing a good argument
(and not just trolling like some people here are doing saying "ahh steam is better herp derp....)

I do agree with some of your points against origin.
as I said i hate origin, but I don't have any love for steam either.

NP.

but Im not the guy who likes to spend hours on BSN typing out "elaborated" answers just to prove a point. I already have to that (call college & life) anyway - Im surprised you even bothred to comeback to this thread

hello again... "but Im not the guy who likes to spend hours on BSN typing out "elaborated" answers just to prove a point." 
I would take that as a compliment (since my english its very bad, I can only imagine that this was a joke)
Edit: just occurred to me that you were not saying that to me.. oh well:?

And the reason why I came back to this thread, is to try to have an good discussion.
since so much people appears to love steam (and I absolute hate the software but I do like the sales that steam
has) so I'm staying here to see if I can find a good discussion, or a good argument.

I'm not trying to prove a point,  as you claim, I just think it's ridiculous that you create this kind of thread, where you
complain about origin, but claim that steam is a wonderfull software and a perfect one, that nobody should ever try
to challenge it, and every single game should be there, because it's a wonderfull place..
(yeah i'm exaggerating on this quote, but I'm sorry, that is how I see every single post of yours)

Modifié par bydoritos, 26 novembre 2012 - 01:28 .

[Peranor]

I've used Steam since Half-Life 2 was released. Never had much problem with it. Maybe I'm just lucky?

[bydoritos]

DeathIsHere wrote...

bydoritos wrote...

and thank you for providing a good argument "Deathishere"
(and not just trolling like some people here are doing saying "ahh steam is better herp derp....)

I do agree with some of your points against origin.
as I said i hate origin, but I don't have any love for steam either.

Opinions, not gonna try and force somebody to like Steam or what not. I defend it because, personally, I've gotten a chance to try some really awesome games thanks to Steam. I hated it when I first bought Skyrim as I'm not a fan of forced software in anything. But it grew on me. xD 

yeah, I also saw some great games on steam.
really cool place to find new games I do agree with you on that.
however I also found some great games on Origin.
like Darkspore.
it was like $5 at one point and I decided to buy it... 30 hours after the purchase..I'm still playing... 

[K_Os2]

TrollBerzerker01 wrote...

K_Os2 wrote...

I only used that screen as an example but they still do occur now and then. I don't make it a habit to take screenshots every dc. Yeah, I remember how bad it was and that's what bother me with people senselessly bashing Origin, while being oblivious to how bad steam was if not worse at launch. Steam still has it share of problem like the client locking up if you alt-tab out of you game.

Well the thing is that Steam was developed by an indie company who was just starting out, where Origin was made by the second highest grossing video game company in the world.

In other words, Steam had an excuse, Origin doesn't.

Valid point if the arguement was that Origin should be way more polished than it currently is and at launch. Not a reason to swear on never buying another product that's tied to Origin. What happens when a great game that you're looking forward to gets tied to the service as exclusive? ...not play it? That's just stupid.

[HolyAvenger]

Chevyboy88 wrote...


You do realize, steam does not set the prices (aside from Valve games) the publishers do. DAO price difference? Who is the publisher? Might want to have a look at EA.

Again choice is good, but to say that Origin is making Steam better due to competition when Steam was great as the monolopy for a decade...

I'm considering a Steam sale price versus an Origin sale price. Now surely Steam sets their own sale prices?

All I'm saying is that I appreciate that an alternative to Steam is out there in the marketplace, and I wished there were more. 

If on a single game at any single time Origin has offered a cheaper price than Steam, it has done its job. 

I'm done with this argument. I'm being forced to argue for Origin, when that isn't my position at all.

[bydoritos]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Chevyboy88 wrote...


You do realize, steam does not set the prices (aside from Valve games) the publishers do. DAO price difference? Who is the publisher? Might want to have a look at EA.

Again choice is good, but to say that Origin is making Steam better due to competition when Steam was great as the monolopy for a decade...

I'm considering a Steam sale price versus an Origin sale price. Now surely Steam sets their own sale prices?

All I'm saying is that I appreciate that an alternative to Steam is out there in the marketplace, and I wished there were more. 

If on a single game at any single time Origin has offered a cheaper price than Steam, it has done its job. 

I'm done with this argument. I'm being forced to argue for Origin, when that isn't my position at all.

steam does not set the prices on their own.. they need the publishers permission.
that's why THQ games are cheap right now.. because THQ needs to sell games like water.

Modifié par bydoritos, 26 novembre 2012 - 01:14 .

[Chevyboy88]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Chevyboy88 wrote...


You do realize, steam does not set the prices (aside from Valve games) the publishers do. DAO price difference? Who is the publisher? Might want to have a look at EA.

Again choice is good, but to say that Origin is making Steam better due to competition when Steam was great as the monolopy for a decade...

I'm considering a Steam sale price versus an Origin sale price. Now surely Steam sets their own sale prices?

All I'm saying is that I appreciate that an alternative to Steam is out there in the marketplace, and I wished there were more. 

If on a single game at any single time Origin has offered a cheaper price than Steam, it has done its job. 

I'm done with this argument. I'm being forced to argue for Origin, when that isn't my position at all.

Incorrect, they do not set any prices, the publishers do.

[K_Os2]

DeathIsHere wrote...

Origin also had a blueprint to follow. Steam was the first real major platform of its kind so everything about Steam was a new thing for the entire industry.

It wasn't the first, there was also D2D and Stardock's digital distribution service, both older, it succeeded where they failed because Valve also developed games the other two companies didn't.

Modifié par K_Os2, 26 novembre 2012 - 01:20 .