162 réponses à ce sujet

[Helena Tylena]

scyphozoa wrote...

I don't think such generalizations are really accurate. Generally a game's morality is defined by the lore or the context. A game like Star Wars has a great justification for why Sith are so ruthless and evil. They literally feed on the sadistic behavior, the anger and the suffering. It directly strengthens their ability to use the dark side of the force.

Jade Empire is another example of how cruel or selfish behavior is explained and built into the game world and the lore.

This is why morality in Mass Effect feels sort of shallow, there is no real justification for the ruthless or selfish behavior. When you have morality reinforced by the lore it becomes a lot easier to justify and roleplay. Just imo.

Mass Effect's morality never really struck me as 'good vs. evil'. More as 'idealistic vs. ruthless'. Shepard was never evil. She could be a ****, sure, but in the end, she was solely out to save the galaxy from a greater threat. No matter the cost, if you're Renegade.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Plaintiff wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

I realize this is slightly off-topic, but I'm just going to post it anyway. I've been meaning to bounce this character concept off of somebody:

Dwarven Noble, grew up surrounded by magical luxury items. Greedy, amoral, and thinks the idea of combat magic is the coolest thing ever, takes the Reaver, Templar, and Spirit Warrior specs in that order. (Exact order so that I can have her go to the Circle first and recruit the blood mage.)

Spares the mages, sides with the werewolves, and spares the Anvil because she believes they're needed. Puts Bhelen on the throne because she is capable of looking past his betrayal, wants her family to keep it, and because she thinks she can manipulate Alistair when he becomes king anyway. Leaves him unhardened, puts him on the throne alone, and asks to be Chancellor for that same reason.

Do I more or less have down designing a non-flat evil character yet?

Well, if you believe that the werewolves and the anvil are 'needed', then why are they the 'evil' choices?

I don't. She does. But that's beside the point of the reason I consider her evil. Mostly, it's because of the way she seeks power for herself and her family above all else. Bhelen is the better choice for king, or at least I feel that way, but that's not why I'm headcanoning her putting him on the throne. For that matter, I'm planning on having her sacrifice the elves, too, despite the fact that at that point, I don't think she'll be hurting for power. Not to mention the thing I mentioned with Alistair, despite the fact that that costs Loghain his life and is going to mean outright lying to Anora.

Basically I'm planning on having her put power first, for herself, for her family, and of course for the army she needs to build.

[Helena Tylena]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

I realize this is slightly off-topic, but I'm just going to post it anyway. I've been meaning to bounce this character concept off of somebody:

Dwarven Noble, grew up surrounded by magical luxury items. Greedy, amoral, and thinks the idea of combat magic is the coolest thing ever, takes the Reaver, Templar, and Spirit Warrior specs in that order. (Exact order so that I can have her go to the Circle first and recruit the blood mage.)

Spares the mages, sides with the werewolves, and spares the Anvil because she believes they're needed. Puts Bhelen on the throne because she is capable of looking past his betrayal, wants her family to keep it, and because she thinks she can manipulate Alistair when he becomes king anyway. Leaves him unhardened, puts him on the throne alone, and asks to be Chancellor for that same reason.

Do I more or less have down designing a non-flat evil character yet?

I wouldn't call that evil per se. The terms I'd use are 'ruthless' and 'ambitious'. Not necessarily evil.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

robtheguru wrote...

I don't think we'll ever see an option in DA to become the true evil in the game. It'll probably only go as far as what we've seen before. Do you choose to spare the bandit or kick him off the cliff?!

There's a bit at the end of NWN:HoTU where you get to demand the Big Bad bow to you and tyrannize the world in your name. Meanwhile, the epilogue for my blackguard, who instead kicked the crap out of him, states that he used his fame from this (and the Epic power he did it with) to make the world such a hell that people wondered if they weren't better off under the villain. In his old age, my character noted that they might be correct. I don't remember hearing any implication of remorse, however.

Edit: Oh, you specified Dragon Age. Sorry, missed that.

Edit 2: But I wondered if we'll get this sort of option back?

Fix'd

You meant NWN not NWN2.

---

You could be evil in Dragon Age: Origins just not pure evil. The Warden still had to stop the blight but you could express that you were truly only doing it because of the fame and rewards behind it all. Also you could murder various innocent people and be completely ruthless. For example you could murder the deserter at Ostagar for a key, you could murder the injured soldier - for no reason other than being a psychopath - and you could even do this again to an injured elf who you would suffocate if you chose to kill him. Of course these are just three examples of many murders (and they were murders) that you could perform in Origins either for personal gain or just due to pure blooded ruthlessness.

I felt that choice like these were missing from Dragon Age 2. Origins allowed you to rob a merchant and then murder him, it also allowed you to kill characters like Wynne and any other companions who stood in your way. You could even allow Alistair to be executed and mock him about it. Meanwhile there were very few evil choices to be made in DA2 and even an aggressive Hawke felt too restrained (you'd think that a person with an aggressive personality would be quick to anger but no).

[RandomSyhn]

I support this idea but I'd like to be classy evil and not just straight up jerk evil. I mean you can be a bad guy and not be a BAD guy right. I feel to be evil I don't have to continuosly resort to barbarous comments about other peoples mothers. That was my problem with Assertive/angry Hawke you can still be evil without being a total jerk. You can still be an agry or assertive individual without being a jerk. Basically I don't want to always be the jerk even if I'm leaning towards the evil persuasion.

[Plaintiff]

What about allowing Feynriel to become possessed, or killing Javaris for literally no reason at all?

[Eternal Phoenix]

Tell me this isn't evil:



It's murder. Even the dialogue chosen represents a rutheless psychopath and the dialogue options in DA2 just never allowed for this.

[Plaintiff]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Tell me this isn't evil:



It's murder. Even the dialogue chosen represents a rutheless psychopath and the dialogue options in DA2 just never allowed for this.

Evil is a purely subjective term, and there were plenty of decisions in DA2 that I would consider ruthless and psychopathic.

[Vitlen]

Taint Master wrote...

They haven't let us really be evil since KoToR. Bioware's gone soft.

No "Jade Empire" 2007 still had it

[HTTP 404]

I like this but unfortunately the game is going to follow a certain story line that will probably connect to a DA4.

[DarkDragon777]

Yes, please.

[ObserverStatus]

IKR? I wish that you could be as evil in every RPG as you can in Fallout 3. It's just so much more fun when you can murder, pillage, take slaves, and eat people.

The best part of Fallout 3 :')

Modifié par bobobo878, 26 novembre 2012 - 03:26 .

[Hatchetman77]

Taint Master wrote...

They haven't let us really be evil since KoToR. Bioware's gone soft.

I let Redcliff be turned into zombies, let the wizard at Soldier's Peak continue his experiments and used his evil research, let a demon possess a girl, let another demon hide in a boy's body, burned Amaranthine to the ground, defiled the sacred ashes while in a relationship with Leliana, lied to her about it when I got back to camp then proceeded to "tap that" every chance I got because she said she was going to take a pilgrimage to see the ashes after we were done with the blight and I wanted to make her extra pissed off when she found out what I did, took a cut of a slavers profits after cutting a deal, lied to Morrigan about "killing" her mother, let Alister be executed without lifting a finger to stop it and hung Nathaniel Howe.

I think I left an appropriate swath of destruction to be considered evil in DA:O.

Modifié par Hatchetman77, 26 novembre 2012 - 03:38 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

robtheguru wrote...

I don't think we'll ever see an option in DA to become the true evil in the game. It'll probably only go as far as what we've seen before. Do you choose to spare the bandit or kick him off the cliff?!

There's a bit at the end of NWN:HoTU where you get to demand the Big Bad bow to you and tyrannize the world in your name. Meanwhile, the epilogue for my blackguard, who instead kicked the crap out of him, states that he used his fame from this (and the Epic power he did it with) to make the world such a hell that people wondered if they weren't better off under the villain. In his old age, my character noted that they might be correct. I don't remember hearing any implication of remorse, however.

Edit: Oh, you specified Dragon Age. Sorry, missed that.

Edit 2: But I wondered if we'll get this sort of option back?

Fix'd

You meant NWN not NWN2.

God-damn it. Thanks...

---

You could be evil in Dragon Age: Origins just not pure evil. The Warden still had to stop the blight but you could express that you were truly only doing it because of the fame and rewards behind it all.

My personal favorite explanation is "The darkspawn want to kill me too." (I don't think you're allowed to express that one, though.)

Also you could murder various innocent people and be completely ruthless. For example you could murder the deserter at Ostagar for a key, you could murder the injured soldier - for no reason other than being a psychopath - and you could even do this again to an injured elf who you would suffocate if you chose to kill him. Of course these are just three examples of many murders (and they were murders) that you could perform in Origins either for personal gain or just due to pure blooded ruthlessness.

I actually had a playthrough dedicated to this. I feel like I failed, though, what with not having the stomach to abandon Redcliffe. I also didn't kill Genitivi, what with the thing where he gets utterly humiliated being more amusing.

I don't think I remember the injured elf, though.

[Vitlen]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Evil for Evil's sake just makes you a terrible role-player.

Yes you`re right but I didn't ask for that.
I just wanted to be able to play with hungry for power PC who thinks that his/her goal justifies any means
He/she doesn't give a **** about being evil or kind just want whole world to bend to his/her will.
But everybody will say that he/she is evil.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

Taint Master wrote...

They haven't let us really be evil since KoToR. Bioware's gone soft.

I let Redcliff be turned into zombies, let the wizard at Soldier's Peak continue his experiments and used his evil research, let a demon possess a girl, let another demon hide in a boy's body, burned Amaranthine to the ground, defiled the sacred ashes while in a relationship with Leliana, lied to her about it when I got back to camp then proceeded to "tap that" every chance I got because she said she was going to take a pilgrimage to see the ashes after we were done with the blight and I wanted to make her extra pissed off when she found out what I did, took a cut of a slavers profits after cutting a deal, lied to Morrigan about "killing" her mother, let Alister be executed without lifting a finger to stop it and hung Nathaniel Howe.

I think I left an appropriate swath of destruction to be considered evil in DA:O.

Wow. My evil playthrough, I didn't abandon Redcliffe, as I've already noted. On the other hand, I did handle the Ashes in a way I found more amusing: I spent the whole playthrough making sure that I had the sufficient Coercion to defile the Ashes in front of Leiliana without her turning on me, and as soon as I got back to camp, I "tapped that" again.

I didn't cut the deal, either. I decided instead I wanted the Blood Magic deal. I didn't let Alistair get executed, for that matter. I made him king, but then let the Archdemon eat his soul.

I see your point, however. DA:O really lets you do some malevolent things.

[Vitlen]

J. Reezy wrote...

Probably not happening.

Why not? They gave this option in SWTOR.

[n7stormrunner]

I support being able be evil or crazy

[3043907]

 I've been hearing rumors of the plot revolving around your specilzations you pick in DA-I but I'm not sure all I know is this I want to be a blood Mage and just dabble just a tiny bit down the path for the greater good or something but then get caught by Templars or somthing like that, after using my blood magic to slay the Templars and escape to freedom I then want to unleash legions of demons I want to burn villages to ground i want to flay a templar alive for no reason what so ever but ultimately I want to conquer the world all the while laughing manically at my absurd mustache that for some reason I can't stop twirling
Is this too much to ask? 

Me   And Templars over here:bandit: "and this is why we hate mages"

[Vitlen]

J. Reezy wrote...

Vitlen wrote...

Taint Master wrote...

They haven't let us really be evil since KoToR. Bioware's gone soft.

No "Jade Empire" 2007 still had it

Jade Empire came out in 2005.

I see.  just put 2007 becase my copy had it on box (special edition) for PC.

[Vitlen]

Atakuma wrote...

No thanks

I was just asking for an option without forcing it on PC. You can play as you please but still you want to deprive the other players of this option?! How very evil from you!

[BlueMagitek]

Closed Fist is not evil. :/