162 réponses à ce sujet

[Sjpelke]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

That being said, even if they wanted to do this, they couldn't. You couldn't have the option of throwing Allistair off a cliff after the battle with the Archdemon in hopes of taking the crown anymore than you would have the option of declaring yourself Viscount of Kirkwall after you toss out the Arishok. Not only would it be nearly impossible to have the game make sense, but the Save Import puts the nail in the coffin of any "Dark Ending" like what we saw in Arcanum, just because it cripples the future.

I'm getting this odd sense that you don't like the Save Import.

Perhaps it's just me.

I think he's just pointing out that it's unsustainable. Which it is. If meaningful world changing decisions remain anyway.

This. I don't hate the idea of the Save Import, but the reality of it is too mammothly dibilitating for the long term. So anything I can (legitimately) lay at its feet, I will.

Thirded. Really do not see the use of safe import if it does not effect the story in a meaningful way. Use of zots that can be used for better things in the game.

[Todd23]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

*starts chanting

Murder. Murder. Murder. Murder! Murder!

“Kill the pig! Cut his throat! Kill the pig! Bash him in!” XD

I'm sorry but that was the first thing that came to mind when murderous chanting was mentioned. xp

Do all english classes have kids read that?

[Fredward]

Todd23 wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

*starts chanting

Murder. Murder. Murder. Murder! Murder!

“Kill the pig! Cut his throat! Kill the pig! Bash him in!” XD

I'm sorry but that was the first thing that came to mind when murderous chanting was mentioned. xp

Do all english classes have kids read that?

Considering this is Africa; yes most likely. XD

[Todd23]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

*starts chanting

Murder. Murder. Murder. Murder! Murder!

“Kill the pig! Cut his throat! Kill the pig! Bash him in!” XD

I'm sorry but that was the first thing that came to mind when murderous chanting was mentioned. xp

Do all english classes have kids read that?

Considering this is Africa; yes most likely. XD

[daaaav]

Why would an "evil" character care anything whatsoever about the main plot...

Your stepping into fable territory here folks, and we all want to avoid that don't we?

[Fast Jimmy]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

I think he's just pointing out that it's unsustainable. Which it is. If meaningful world changing decisions remain anyway.

This. I don't hate the idea of the Save Import, but the reality of it is too mammothly dibilitating for the long term. So anything I can (legitimately) lay at its feet, I will.

I simply base it on that quite a few of your posts anymore you talk about problems with the save import.

I suppose everyone needs a hobby? 

[DarkDragon777]

daaaav wrote...

Why would an "evil" character care anything whatsoever about the main plot...

Your stepping into fable territory here folks, and we all want to avoid that don't we?

There are plenty of reasons.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

daaaav wrote...

Why would an "evil" character care anything whatsoever about the main plot...

If the plot involves darkspawn, that's the reason right there. The darkspawn are ultimately looking to destroy Ferelden. If you don't care about that, they're still planning on getting to the rest of Thedas eventually. The Warden has a vested interest in that not happening.

[Vitlen]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Vitlen wrote...

Thank you for kind explanations but all these things exist just in peoples minds. So you can say the same about justice, honor ,dignity etc.But it doesn't mean they do not exist because they are not material. And they still influence material world a lot.

Really? So vampires exist? Werewolves exist?

There a heckuva lot of things that exist in the minds of people that aren't real.

Note that I personally DO believe they exist, and believe in right and wrong. But you could definitely argue that they don't exist.

WoW! I do not remember saying anything about vampires, werewolves or UFOs. And I don`t need to argue about anything here. I just put some of my thought and if anybody agree it`s good if not then even better.And yes they exist in books,movies,legends and some people`s nightmares too.

[Zardoc]

If it's pragmatic villainy, sure, why not. If it's merely for teh evulz, then no, and get out.

[Kileyan]

Vitlen wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Vitlen wrote...

Thank you for kind explanations but all these things exist just in peoples minds. So you can say the same about justice, honor ,dignity etc.But it doesn't mean they do not exist because they are not material. And they still influence material world a lot.

Really? So vampires exist? Werewolves exist?

There a heckuva lot of things that exist in the minds of people that aren't real.

Note that I personally DO believe they exist, and believe in right and wrong. But you could definitely argue that they don't exist.

WoW! I do not remember saying anything about vampires, werewolves or UFOs. And I don`t need to argue about anything here. I just put some of my thought and if anybody agree it`s good if not then even better.And yes they exist in books,movies,legends and some people`s nightmares too.

I think he is trying to say that the ideas of good and evil are just as realistic as the ideas of the tooth fairy and the easter bunny.

He's one of those people who think that right and wrong can be argued intellectually as abstract conscepts in philosophy class, but does admit from the get go that he is full of sheet, and there are obvious lines between right/wrong and good/evil.

[vonTannhauser]

There is a world of difference between being a Ted Bundy mass murderer for the sake of it, and being a ruthless leader like Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great or the First Emperor of China. I'm all for the latter, not convinced about the former. You can do the first in the Elder Scrolls games but Bioware has always been about telling a great story.

I do think their stories are becoming more shoehorned though. Farm boy saves world (DAO), save the world / galaxy (ME series, DAO, DA3). Gone are the days of Baldurs Gate where you are free to forge your own destiny.

What can DA3 do then?  It's likely going to be Chantry-boy/girl saves world by being peacemaker.  They'll give us ruthless ways to do it, sure.  They need to have a good "alternate" storyline to justify an "evil" protagonist.  Letting us run around massacring innocents but having an unchanged ending (we stopped the war! hurrah!) would be choices that don't matter (see ME3 ending). 

One way to allow us to be "evil" is perhaps letting us be Tevinter agents/sympathizers.  You work for the Imperial Chantry, and it's in Tevinter's interests to escalate the war between mages and templars in the Andrastian Chantry lands.  You do your best to get everyone massacring each other in Orlais so that Tevinter has the perfect backdrop to launch an invasion and impose its version of the Chantry on Thedas.....see Spanish interventions in the Netherlands for inspiration.  Even this isn't "evil" per se, it's "evil" for everyone outside of Tevinter, but the protagonist is still committing acts that he/she believes are justified.  I doubt the Spanish Inquisition thought of themselves as "evil".  Probably won't happen though because DA4 has to follow from a canonical DA3 ending, too many permutations => too many branches in the trees to make a good sequel.

Modifié par vonTannhauser, 27 novembre 2012 - 06:22 .

[Kileyan]

vonTannhauser wrote...

There is a world of difference between being a Ted Bundy mass murderer for the sake of it, and being a ruthless leader like Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great or the First Emperor of China. I'm all for the latter, not convinced about the former. You can do the first in the Elder Scrolls games but Bioware has always been about telling a great story.

I do think their stories are becoming more shoehorned though. Farm boy saves world (DAO), save the world / galaxy (ME series, DAO, DA3). Gone are the days of Baldurs Gate where you are free to forge your own destiny.

The costs of progress. Its funny how technology, game storage space and such has not done what we might have imagined they would. Instead of expanding possibilities, widening the worlds, the advances in tech have actually made games less than they were.

The capabilities of full speech, tons more full motion video haven't done what we maybe dreamed of back in the late 90's heyday of rpgs. Instead they have limited the games.

"we can't do that, voice and video cutscenes are expensive"

That is the mantra of today.

Modifié par Kileyan, 27 novembre 2012 - 06:27 .

[NasreddinHodja]

Choice between "good" and "evil" in the Dragon Age games is ultimately meaningless. You have no alignment meter, so why concern yourself whether or not an action is evil? Just like so many have mentioned before, there are plenty of options in both Dragon Age games that are outright "evil" (Selling Fenris back to slavery? You bastard.) The game just doesn't tell you that it's evil.

[mickey111]

Evil is all about making the world a better place... for yourself.

[Solmanian]

There's evil and there's evil. There isn't alot of chance they allow you to be the mustach twirling kind - cause than you'll just fistbump the antagonist instead of beating him up... You could probably a ruthless "end justifies means" kind of guys who rather kill a thousand innocent than spare a single bad guy, and tortures people on the flimsiest reasons... I kinda assumed it would be the default mode considering the game is called "inquisition".

[BouncyFrag]

Todd23 wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

*starts chanting

Murder. Murder. Murder. Murder! Murder!

“Kill the pig! Cut his throat! Kill the pig! Bash him in!” XD

I'm sorry but that was the first thing that came to mind when murderous chanting was mentioned. xp

Do all english classes have kids read that?

Considering this is Africa; yes most likely. XD

Wasn't going to post, but Hacksaw Jim Duggan inspired so:

The most fun I've had as an evil baddie was in KOTOR. It felt 'genuine', if that is an appropriate term for this. DA:O did have options that were pretty bad but had benefits to doing them (Ashes of Andraste, sacrificing the elves in the alienage, Conor, etc) and were fun to roleplay. If Bioware holds form, we should have some opportunities to make us stop and question our morality due to a video game.

[DarkSpiral]

vonTannhauser wrote...

There is a world of difference between being a Ted Bundy mass murderer for the sake of it, and being a ruthless leader like Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great or the First Emperor of China. I'm all for the latter, not convinced about the former. You can do the first in the Elder Scrolls games but Bioware has always been about telling a great story.

I do think their stories are becoming more shoehorned though. Farm boy saves world (DAO), save the world / galaxy (ME series, DAO, DA3). Gone are the days of Baldurs Gate where you are free to forge your own destiny.

You mean that game back the ninties where you ALWAYS end up imbroiled in the iron crisis, ALWAYS get framed by your half-brother for a crime you didn't commit, and ALWAYS kill him in order to clear your name?

"Forge your own destiny."  Hogwash.  You have exactly as much choice in DA:O as you did in BG.

[StElmo]

No, being evil is only fun in an experimental sense. Your character always has to believe they are making the "right" choice. Otherwise it is not geniune. That is not to say the player can't do horrible things, but they have to be motivated by something.

[mickey111]

StElmo wrote...

No, being evil is only fun in an experimental sense. Your character always has to believe they are making the "right" choice. Otherwise it is not geniune. That is not to say the player can't do horrible things, but they have to be motivated by something.

Only requirement for a fun character is a fun personality, and characters like Joker were full to bursting with personality. As Alfred (The Dark Knight) said, "some men just want to watch the world burn". To use the joker as an example, basically every version of his that I know of is absolutely as shallow as a mud puddle, and yet he was a well known and well liked characer, even before Heath Ledger. 
Basically I'm saying that not every character needs to be serious.

Modifié par mickey111, 03 décembre 2012 - 04:46 .