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Narratively Speaking - Chances of Merrill Returning?


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#1
StElmo

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Hey DA3 Team :) I want you to know I'm not demanding anything, this is just a speculation thread, but feel free to let us know your own thoughts :)

Given Merrill's narrative arc in DA2, do you think it would be logical or possible for her to return in DA3? She is my favorite character, so obviously, I would love her to return.

But Narratively Speaking (the most important factor in deciding wether a character should return IMHO), do you think her return would be justified?

I personally see her as a Liara/Tali character, in that she could easily develop as she moves from being a 20-something elf to maybe an older, wiser character.

What do you think?

#2
mousestalker

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Sounds like an excellent idea! There's a paucity of experienced women in games.

#3
ImperatorMortis

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StElmo wrote...
What do you think?


I think Merrils personality will be changed radically for the second time if she returns. 

I mean honestly. How does Merrils personality go from confident, slighty bossy, straight edge by the books girl.
To becoming a nervous, quiet, radical, spaz between the events of DA:O to DA2? 

How? I ask. 

I miss DA:O Merril.. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 26 novembre 2012 - 01:51 .


#4
StElmo

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ImperatorMortis wrote...

StElmo wrote...
What do you think?


I think Merrils personality will be changed radically for the second time if she returns. 

I mean honestly. How does Merrils personality go from Confident, slighty bossy, straight edge by the books girl.
To becoming a nervous, quiet, radical, spaz between the events of DA:O to DA2? 

How? I ask. 

I miss DA:O Merril.. 


You know there could be a really great story behind that. They could reveal it all in DA3 and that could be very intruiging.

#5
Helena Tylena

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ImperatorMortis wrote...

StElmo wrote...
What do you think?


I think Merrils personality will be changed radically for the second time if she returns. 

I mean honestly. How does Merrils personality go from Confident, slighty bossy, straight edge by the books girl.
To becoming a nervous, quiet, radical, spaz between the events of DA:O to DA2? 

How? I ask. 

I miss DA:O Merril.. 


Retcons, mainly.

#6
ImperatorMortis

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StElmo wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

StElmo wrote...
What do you think?


I think Merrils personality will be changed radically for the second time if she returns. 

I mean honestly. How does Merrils personality go from Confident, slighty bossy, straight edge by the books girl.
To becoming a nervous, quiet, radical, spaz between the events of DA:O to DA2? 

How? I ask. 

I miss DA:O Merril.. 


You know there could be a really great story behind that. They could reveal it all in DA3 and that could be very intruiging.


Inb4 DA2 Merril isn't actually Merril. 

#7
AppealToReason

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It could happen. I remember something being mentioned about tracking something to do with an elvish meeting thingy where like all of them go and presumably party like rock stars. She could be there.

I killed her clan in DA2 though because they were ****s :)

#8
ForThessia

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ImperatorMortis wrote...

I miss DA:O Merril.. 



#9
GipsyDangeresque

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The events of Dragon Age 2 took place over nearly a decade. Her personality did not change dramatically across that entire time, despite the cascade of earth-shaking events that made their way into Hawke and his companion's lives.

Besides, there's nothing to improve or mature anyway. Merrill is ****ing awesome, anything else would be as much of an "improvement" as Anders in 2 was over his former mindset during Dragon Age: Awakenings.

Modifié par Atemeus, 26 novembre 2012 - 02:08 .


#10
Sacred_Fantasy

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ImperatorMortis wrote...

StElmo wrote...
What do you think?


I think Merrils personality will be changed radically for the second time if she returns. 

I mean honestly. How does Merrils personality go from confident, slighty bossy, straight edge by the books girl.
To becoming a nervous, quiet, radical, spaz between the events of DA:O to DA2? 

How? I ask. 

I miss DA:O Merril.. 


This is the reason why I fear any returning former companions. BioWare seem to forget their personality and create new characters instead.

#11
GipsyDangeresque

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Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

This is the reason why I fear any returning former companions. BioWare seem to forget their personality and create new characters instead.

I don't even know why you'd be afraid of that, they haven't done it yet at least not in any extreme way.

The loss of a three minute cameo of a random, boring nPC named "Merril" in DA:O was hardly anything to be mourned. And what we have now is a three dimensional character, and more importantly, actually likeable and memorable in any way.

The only other person that ever changed between games was... Anders. But there was a reason for that, and it was called completely fusing his mind with another being's. That tends to not leave your brain the same as it was before.


Isabella's appearance changed, but her pesonality was pretty much resolutely the same. Other examples of Bioware handling personalities correctly are numerous. They were quite faithful to Leliana and Zevran, for instance. As well as Alistair.

Speaking of cross-game consistency, I'd like to give a shout out to the pidgeon population of Ferelden being in decline.

Modifié par Atemeus, 26 novembre 2012 - 02:19 .


#12
Atakuma

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What the person above me said.

Modifié par Atakuma, 26 novembre 2012 - 02:20 .


#13
GipsyDangeresque

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Atakuma wrote...


Antivan Crow'd!!! :ph34r:

#14
jackygates

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Yes I would love to see her in D3 would be a treat to see what shes been up to and how she fits into this Templar and Mage problem that seems to be the focus of the story so far

#15
Sacred_Fantasy

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Atemeus wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

This is the reason why I fear any returning former companions. BioWare seem to forget their personality and create new characters instead.

I don't even know why you'd be afraid of that, they haven't done it yet at least not in any extreme way.

The loss of a three minute cameo of a random, boring nPC named "Merril" in DA:O was hardly anything to be mourned.

Three minutes is enough to give me good reasons of why I think Merril should be romanceable companions in DA 2 in the first place. I like those qualities that are no longer appear with the new Merril.


Atemeus wrote...

And what we have now is a three dimensional character, and more importantly, actually likeable and memorable in any way.

You and I  view "likeable and memorable in anyway character," differently.


Atemeus wrote...

The only other person that ever changed between games was... Anders. But there was a reason for that, and it was called completely fusing his mind with another being's. That tends to not leave your brain the same as it was before. Isabella's appearance changed, but her pesonality was pretty much resolutely the same. Other examples of Bioware handling personalities correctly are numerous.

No comment on Anders and Isabella.  


Atemeus wrote...


They were quite faithful to Leliana .

Not my Leliana. My Leliana is hardened to doubt the Maker and last seen travel together with my warden. Not Sister Nightingale who continue to firmly believe in the Maker and suddely claim, "Gone like the Warden."  


Atemeus wrote...

and Zevran, for instance.

Zevran appear buggy in my game. He should have not appear since I killed him in DAO. But yeah I agree Zevran still the same old pervert character he used to be in DAO. Surprisingly tho, he was so much fun in DA 2 witout any intention to betray my PC this time round.


Atemeus wrote...

As well as Alistair.

Alistair's appear too brief to comment.  

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 26 novembre 2012 - 02:35 .


#16
ImperatorMortis

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Atemeus wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

This is the reason why I fear any returning former companions. BioWare seem to forget their personality and create new characters instead.

I don't even know why you'd be afraid of that, they haven't done it yet at least not in any extreme way.

The loss of a three minute cameo of a random, boring nPC named "Merril" in DA:O was hardly anything to be mourned. And what we have now is a three dimensional character, and more importantly, actually likeable and memorable in any way.


How was DA:O Merril not likable? Because she wasn't timid? Because she actually had confidence, and wasn't a total spaz? 

"Virginal girl next door". Lol. 

IMO DA2 Merril is more pitiable than likable. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 26 novembre 2012 - 02:38 .


#17
Knight of Dane

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I

ForThessia wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

I miss DA:O Merril.. 



Who?


OT: I wouldn't mind her return if it makes sense. There has been posted a big a** concept artpiece showing big a** arlavans and there has been rumored a gathering of the clans I could picture her return there.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 26 novembre 2012 - 02:49 .


#18
GipsyDangeresque

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Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

I hardened + romanced Leliana too. But you have a pretty bad misconception of what hardening did to her personality. It's about accepting who she is, her love of the life of a rogue and a bard that changes. Hell, she argued with my City Elf when he confronted her beliefs about faith in the Maker even AFTER the sidequest with Marjolaine was resolved and never relinquished her beliefs no matter what you said.

It's the difference between serving Divine Justine because she wants to help the Chantry, or because she accepts her skillset and past were valuable to her, and embracing her role as a skilled spy and saboteur as opposed to the repentant, cloistered sister she pretended to be.

Besides, she's traveling with your Warden throughout Acts 1 and 2 and only split up with you at two points during the years following Origins, 1) During Awakening, when she was summoned to Justine to consider serving her and 2) During Act 3 of Dragon Age 2, many years later and I suspect it is while she was away from you during this time that the Warden goes missing mysteriously, with Hawke following suit not a year later.


As for Zevran, well yeah. Bugs can make weird things happen but that's not a writing issue so it doesn't really belong in the argument at all.

The only thing that seems legitimately debatable at all is the change to Merrill. I suspect acceptance of this issue will hang mainly on the balance on if you liked Merrill in Dragon Age 2, or not which is a matter of taste.

Still, she could have just as easily been a new Keeper from a different Dalish Clan instead of the Marethari one which is a valid point. But what would be lost if she had been? Well let's examine that.

I suspect they grabbed Merrill because she was a blank slate that lacked any defined character or personality, and by reusing members of the first game's supporting cast Bioware was able to add a measure of continuity between the games. I happen to think that's a goal worth the minor impact it had on the consistency of her character's portrayal. You could always attribute her seriousness to the stress of the situation with the Mirror and the taint unfolding at the time.


It's a pretty big leap to make, sure, but I think it was worth it and I'm not really budging on that issue at all. My opinion's been made known, now I'm going to go do something more enjoyable with my time than argue with plebians that don't worship the Goddess of Swinging Upon Chandeliers, non-members of the Order of the Green Scarf. Good day sir :P

Modifié par Atemeus, 26 novembre 2012 - 02:59 .


#19
whykikyouwhy

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DA:O Merrill was confident...among her people. She had a role within her clan. DA2 Merrill was a pariah, and was, for the most part, surrounded by a human culture that she didn't quite understand. Her manner and tone does shift back to confident when you have her in the party and return to Sundermount.

As for the question posed in the OP, I think it would be logical for her to return in some cameo, under certain circumstances. It might depend on if the Dalish are somehow involved in the storyline (maybe something having to do with an Eluvian...?). We've seen concept art of several aravels...perhaps she is part of the group that is traveling, or will be part of some welcoming committee.

#20
GipsyDangeresque

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Fenris/Merrill dialog in one of the DLCs foreshadowed that an Arlathven was forthcoming. If any companion pre-established would be a good window into that event (if it occurs during Inquisition,) it would be Merrill. It's a good argument for her return, as good as any I suppose.

#21
Josielyn

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I would LOVE to see Merrill try to "redeem" herself by showing up at the next Arlathven. "I'm BAAACK!" with MORE goodies/artifacts this time!

#22
Guest_Puddi III_*

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They bring back characters for continuity in the setting despite the changes in protagonist, and that's something I'm perfectly OK with.

And I think the notion that: 1) people can claim that a couple of characters with approximately .001 dimensions in Origins and barely any "character" to be violated to begin with, have been retconned, and 2) that it would be some kind of terrible offense if they did-- is all a bit laughable.

Modifié par Filament, 26 novembre 2012 - 03:11 .


#23
ImperatorMortis

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Josielyn wrote...

I would LOVE to see Merrill try to "redeem" herself by showing up at the next Arlathven. "I'm BAAACK!" with MORE goodies/artifacts this time!


"God damnit.." 

That would pretty much be my exact reaction. 

Filament wrote...

They bring back characters for continuity in the setting despite the changes in protagonist, and that's something I'm perfectly OK with.

And I think the notion that: 1) people can claim that a couple of characters with approximately .001 dimensions in Origins and barely any "character" to be violated to begin with, have been retconned, and 2) that it would be some kind of terrible offense if they did-- is all a bit laughable.


Your AVATAR is laughable!

Nah I'm kidding, its quite adorable. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 26 novembre 2012 - 03:13 .


#24
GipsyDangeresque

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No, the Dalish have missed their chance. If Merrill's continued research, archaeological or arcane, turns up anything interesting she shouldn't be so quick to bend over to the people that cast HER out. If she got the Eluvian working or found some other big magical awesomeness, it's the clans that need Merrill, not the other way around. Oh sure, they'd love to cash in on the fruits of her life's work now that she's finished, but it's fine that they shunned her for it up until now? Hell no.

Then again, Merrill's the kind of selfless person that would probably choke her pride down and give it to the keepers for the good of her people, the people she still loves even when they hate her.

Modifié par Atemeus, 26 novembre 2012 - 03:15 .


#25
DialupToaster

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ImperatorMortis wrote...

StElmo wrote...
What do you think?


I think Merrils personality will be changed radically for the second time if she returns. 

I mean honestly. How does Merrils personality go from confident, slighty bossy, straight edge by the books girl.
To becoming a nervous, quiet, radical, spaz between the events of DA:O to DA2? 

How? I ask. 

I miss DA:O Merril.. 


You shoud note that she was like that to other ELVES. Being in unfamiliar territory is probably why, either way I dub it the Merril effect.
She acts more like her old self whenever she talks to elves of her clan in DA2 as well (for the most part.)