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[Warden661]

Drakar123 wrote...

Unlikely.Sell them out to whom ?Yes they have slaves for blood magic but it has never been stated that they use blood magic on regular people and they are already wealthy enough to have anything they want.Never mind that having all of those people agree on it would be impossible.Tevinter has been around for over 10000 years.That it hasn't happened already means that the odds of it happening are close to nil.They also have nothing to gain from selling out the people they rule.

Edit:The same thing you are proposing can happen in a regular democracy and is pretty much happening in america right now.Anyone should be able to see that mageocracy is better then every other system on thedas.It's obvious.

Slaves aren't regular people? 

[Drakar123]

I don't at all.I simply believe the magisters wouldn't do it because they already have everything they could possibly want.Their track record shows this.10000 years of magister rule and they haven't done anything of the like.I'l repost this in case people missed my edit

have to add that every other country on thedas is much more prone to opressive rulers and they can cause far more damage then an Archon can.I never said mageocracy is perfect,only that all other systems on thedas are far worse.

[xsdob]

Another point from the dragonage wiki,

"The centuries-long war with the Qunari has taxed the Imperium significantly as resources are strained, with hundreds of refugees fleeing to the capital of Minrathous, the splendor of which is chafing greatly everywhere outside the spires that house the Imperium's Circles of Magi."

Seems to me the imperium is using a bit too much of it's resources on the mages, and not enough for everyone else. Or as it's also called, average corrupt political system.

Also, about not surpressing their people.

"The ancient magister lords ruled the Imperium in the Circles of Magi (before their modern incarnation), maintaining a tight hold over its people through the power to infiltrate their dreams using blood magic. Though blood magic is now banned in the Imperium, mages who practice it are quietly acknowledged as the most proficient dream-walkers and diviners. "

Since they still use dream-walking as a highly valued skill, I don't think your assumption of them not using their magic on their citizens is entirely accurate.

[Drakar123]

Yes slavery is bad I know but it's still far better then every other country and most slaves have it petty good if they aren't used for blood magic.Fenris's sister says that she didn't want the freedom he got her because she had an easy life before becoming free.And tevinter would get over slavery eventually.Once they get advanced enough.Most commoners outside tevinter live worse lives then slaves really.

[xsdob]

Drakar123 wrote...

Yes slavery is bad I know but it's still far better then every other country and most slaves have it petty good if they aren't used for blood magic.Fenris's sister says that she didn't want the freedom he got her because she had an easy life before becoming free.And tevinter would get over slavery eventually.Once they get advanced enough.Most commoners outside tevinter live worse lives then slaves really.

I really don't belive that, espically since most slaves are like the one you find who survived danarius's apprentaces sacrifices, unable to function without a master and brainwashed to the point of none resistence.

But it'll be a good day when they do get ride of slavery, or the wealthy mageocrates who make lost of money off the backs of slavery will assassinate the person who tries to get ride of it and reinstate it.

[Drakar123]

I never said the magisters aren't corrupt.I said in my first post that if they weren't then they would easily reconquer thedas.A strong Archon is all they need to become the most powerful country in the world again.A few reforms and the imperium will be invincible.And I guarantee you that orleasian nobles spend much more of their money on the ruling class then the imperium does.Everybody there lives in poverty while the nobles wear fancy masks.As for the blood magic thing.I find it highly unlikely that the magisters just go around invading people's dreams.They probably only use it on people who are dangerous to the regime which is really no different from the way modern countries handle people dangerous to the regime.Anyway this thread is moving too fast for me...

Edit:The only reason we got rid of slavery is because it became uneconomical.Much easier to pay people minium wage which they can't live of off then give them food,shelter,clothes and everything else they need to stay alive.nobody will be reinstating slavery once it becomes uneconomical.

Modifié par Drakar123, 26 novembre 2012 - 08:49 .

[xsdob]

I have little faith in the tevinter imperium, or most any of the kingdoms or goverments of thedas, but the tevinter imperium the least becasue of slavery, which is a very easy way to become detached from your fellow man and see anyone not like you as simply another slave who isn't bound and sold yet.

But yeah, I don't trust any of them, at all.

Modifié par xsdob, 26 novembre 2012 - 08:48 .

[Warden661]

Drakar123 wrote...

Yes slavery is bad I know but it's still far better then every other country and most slaves have it petty good if they aren't used for blood magic.Fenris's sister says that she didn't want the freedom he got her because she had an easy life before becoming free.And tevinter would get over slavery eventually.Once they get advanced enough.Most commoners outside tevinter live worse lives then slaves really.

No. Just no.

[Drakar123]

I agree with you but It's better then the alternatives and you have to keep in mind that the number of mages being born has been increasing for a while.Eventually tevinter will be a nation with only mages in it and establishing a mageocracy where everyone has equal rights and there is no slavery will probably happen

Edit:Please remeber that this is a medieval society and that in our world slavery was legal for the vast majority of human history.You can't use modern day morals to to judge tevinter.Like in our world slavery will be outlawed once it becoems uneconomical.

Modifié par Drakar123, 26 novembre 2012 - 08:55 .

[xsdob]

Drakar123 wrote...

I never said the magisters aren't corrupt.I said in my first post that if they weren't then they would easily reconquer thedas.A strong Archon is all they need to become the most powerful country in the world again.A few reforms and the imperium will be invincible.And I guarantee you that orleasian nobles spend much more of their money on the ruling class then the imperium does.Everybody there lives in poverty while the nobles wear fancy masks.As for the blood magic thing.I find it highly unlikely that the magisters just go around invading people's dreams.They probably only use it on people who are dangerous to the regime which is really no different from the way modern countries handle people dangerous to the regime.Anyway this thread is moving too fast for me...

Edit:The only reason we got rid of slavery is because it became uneconomical.Much easier to pay people minium wage which they can't live of off then give them food,shelter,clothes and everything else they need to stay alive.nobody will be reinstating slavery once it becomes uneconomical.

When you say "a few reforms" do you realize that the magisters will fight tooth and nail to never let that happen, becasue all old regimes resist change until it becomes unavoidable for them to happen. Also, we fought an entire war over the issue of slavery, in the first half it was over the states defecting because they thought abraham lincon was an extremist who would get ride of all the slaves, and than the later half to fight tooth and nail to preserve their independance from the goverment.

People and goverments don't change easily, and armed conflict is often one of the few ways it does change.

[Drakar123]

I was mostly talking about military reforms and such.Things to make the country more efficent.Nothing truly major.Real change would take time but should a single Archon manage to unify all the magisters,tevinter should have no problem dealing with the qunari or anyone else really.

[Vitlen]

BrotherWarth wrote...

The idea of a mage-ruled nation is essentially just a plutocracy. The very concept is flawed because it's based upon inequality. Those born with more are deemed better in such a society and those born with less are seen as less than. That's why the Imperium is so corrupt. The people in charge have been told that they're greater than everyone else since they were children.
The flipside is treating mages as less than like pretty much the rest of Thedas does. But those are the 2 extremes, and extremes are never ideal.

Maybe so... but do you really think that any othe system is ideal?

[Drakar123]

 Tevinter's political system aside,I really hope they reconquer thedas eventually.They have the power to do it and if it werent for the qunari they would have done so already.In DA4 maybe ?I can dream can't I ?

Modifié par Drakar123, 26 novembre 2012 - 07:10 .

[M Hedonist]

They enslaved Fenris, so they're good in my book.

[Asdrubael Vect]

about Tevinter "slavery"....

In Tevinter elf mages can be Magisters, and non-mages can be slave traders, personal bodyguard......in other- Andrastian-Chantry countries, they are at best only domestic servants in noble houses and if they mages-first enchanters(but they are so rare, like needles in a haystack)

some Magisters that we have seen before half-elves...Danarius....and in the future-Feinriel...

so all these stories about the terrible slavery contrived by Chantry, "slavery" in Tevinter at times better than in other countries

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 26 novembre 2012 - 09:13 .

[Drakar123]

The reason Arlathan wasn't torn apart by strife between mages and non mages in because all elves were mages back then.Honestly a magocratic country where everone is a mage would be ideal.That would be true equality right there.It would happen with tevinter eventually since as I said before the number of mages has been steadily rising for a while now.Once everyone in the imperium is a mage it would probably become a country far superior to any we have in the present day.

Edit:To the poster above.I'l just quote what I aid on the matter in one of my previous posts:

And as much as you speak of discrimination in tevinter it is the only country where elves aren't in ghettoes and are treated as utter scum.Tevinter isn't racist or discriminatiory at all.It is a nation that appreciates ability over all else.A way a country should be in my opinion.

Modifié par Drakar123, 26 novembre 2012 - 09:16 .

[MichaelStuart]

I have no real thoughts on the Tevinter Imperium.
To me there are just another group in a long list, using their power for their own selfish ends.

[Inquisitor Arc]

I'd rather join the Qunari than be a part of any magocracy. Are you seriously blind to how the magisters use their slaves as experiments and cannon fodder? Seriously being a slave in Tevinter is worse than being poor in any other nation.

From the Dragon Age 2 codex...
"Of course, the greatest consumer of slave labor is the Tevinter Imperium, which would surely crumble if not for the endless supply of slaves from all over the continent. There, they are meat, chattel. They are beaten, used as fodder in the endless war against the Qunari, and even serve as components in dark magic rituals." Here

Then there's still the fact that the blights occurred because of the Magister's venture into the fade. Tevinter should be taken as an example of why magic should not rule over man. The Magisters don't even hesitate to enslave other mages. Its not always elves that are being used as fodder because anyone who isnt a magister is fair game.

• Anders: So, there must be mages in Tevinter that don't use blood magic.
• Fenris: Of course. There are slaves. The magisters do not hesitate to collar their own kind.
• Anders: But no magisters?
• Fenris: Why must you go on about this? No magister would turn down an advantage over his rivals. If he did, he'd be dead.

Drakar123 wrote....
And as much as you speak of
discrimination in tevinter it is the only country where elves aren't in
ghettoes and are treated as utter scum.Tevinter isn't racist or
discriminatiory at all.It is a nation that appreciates ability over all
else.A way a country should be in my opinion.

Therefore treating those without ability or owning slaves is not discrimination? The long practice of  enslaving elves is something not racist?

Drakar123 wrote...
Honestly a magocratic country where everone is a mage would be
ideal.That would be true equality right there.It would happen with
tevinter eventually since as I said before the number of mages has been
steadily rising for a while now.Once everyone in the imperium is a mage
it would probably become a country far superior to any we have in the
present day.

If everyone was a mage I would prefer the current system of government we have currently in modern society rather than a magocracy. Even then Tevinter is highly dependent on the slave trade, so if everyone there suddenly had magical capabilities they will start using them as slaves. Then theres the problem of all the potential abominations that could be running about.

Modifié par Tiger Ace 32, 26 novembre 2012 - 10:13 .

[Medhia Nox]

I'm not sure Tevinter is a plutocracy as much as it is a meritocracy - or, possibly a Kratocracy - which is a government ruled by those who can seize power.

- It promotes slavery.
- It promotes sacrifice (for fuel no less - basically if we killed people to run our power plants)
- It is Imperialistic (even as a collapsed empire) and antagonistic.
- It possesses a kind of caste system (and while I find the theory behind caste systems fascinating - they are barbaric at best)


It is a little scary that it's one true merit (magical knowledge) seems to trump any form of civil rights in the minds of gamers. Sure - it's all make believe - but the idea is to conceive of how you would feel "if" this were real.

Even their magical knowledge is plagued with a gross lack of ethics - reminiscent of places like **** Germany - Russia (and any other nation at certain points in their history) where scientific understanding vacillated between the bizarre (Humanzees?) to the outright depraved (of course - the ****s - a group that could make drinking tea somehow involve something depraved.)

I don't romanticize Tevinter - I try to react to it as if I could read about it in the news, if I want to consider my actual opinion - and it certainly falls into the "scum of the earth" category for me.

[ImperatorMortis]

Tiger Ace 32 wrote...

I'd rather join the Qunari than be a part of any magocracy. Are you seriously blind to how the magisters use their slaves as experiments and cannon fodder? Seriously being a slave in Tevinter is worse than being poor in any other nation.

Then don't be a slave. Problem solved. My work here is done. 

inb4 someone gets all offended. 

[ashesandwine]

What would be their cause to conquer all of Thedas? You think more bloodshed is a good idea?

[ImperatorMortis]

ashesandwine wrote...

What would be their cause to conquer all of Thedas? 

Getting back at the Chantry? 

ashesandwine wrote...
You think more bloodshed is a good idea?

Maybe. Its been clearly established by now that Blood is power. It would be interesting if Blood Mages could use an entire war to fuel a Blood Magic ritual. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 27 novembre 2012 - 02:03 .

[xsdob]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Tiger Ace 32 wrote...

I'd rather join the Qunari than be a part of any magocracy. Are you seriously blind to how the magisters use their slaves as experiments and cannon fodder? Seriously being a slave in Tevinter is worse than being poor in any other nation.

Then don't be a slave. Problem solved. My work here is done. 

inb4 someone gets all offended. 

Cause all the black people in america wanted to be slaves right? I'm sure none of them were like "hey guys, I don;t want to do this anymore" and just walk off from being a slave.

Seriously, were you high when you wrote that? You can't not be a slave once you are a slave, that's the entire difference between employment and enslavement.

[xsdob]

Dark Korsar wrote...

about Tevinter "slavery"....

In Tevinter elf mages can be Magisters, and non-mages can be slave traders, personal bodyguard......in other- Andrastian-Chantry countries, they are at best only domestic servants in noble houses and if they mages-first enchanters(but they are so rare, like needles in a haystack)

some Magisters that we have seen before half-elves...Danarius....and in the future-Feinriel...

so all these stories about the terrible slavery contrived by Chantry, "slavery" in Tevinter at times better than in other countries

Casue this girl is clearly in the best mental condition after being a slave right?

Modifié par xsdob, 27 novembre 2012 - 02:19 .