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[LinksOcarina]

Nizaris1 wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

I play DA:O several times, hundreds of hours, many main characters, many outcomes, proud as a Grey Warden who unite the land, hero of all, defeated the Blight....and suddenly it is all for....NOTHING

It wasn't all for nothing. You defeated the Blight. That was the awesome ending for that game. DA2 was a new game, with a new ending. DA3 will be an additional new game with another new ending.

If all the darkspawn were defeated at the end of DAO, would you still want another Grey Warden vs darkspawn centric game? Would you really want them, soap opera like, to bring the darkspawn back from the dead, even if it involved some lame hand waving? Is that really the only scope you care about?

I mean for nothing is for nothing...i have played as the Warden, going through an adventure, involving in someone else politic, discovering lost ancient relic, meeting with talking trees and werewolves, meet brootmother, uniting the land, defeating the most dangerous enemy of mankind...then it is all gone?

Why not DA2 carry over the Warden? Making Hawke as just NPC in DA2, by the way Hawke is Varric story. Or make DA2 as side quest or DLC. In the end, the Seeker need the Warden anyway right? Need to Warden to solve the problem. Is there any point in playing as Hawke? DA2 is a story about what already happened.

DA2 is better a story about the Warden who solving the Mage-Templar conflict, at the same time discovering about the Black City and everything.

considering the ending to Origins, it might not even make sense since the Warden can either be dead, missing, or with Morrigan.

And honestly, I prefer the changes to the protagonist more than a fixed one. It gives a feel of a more believable world that way instead of the Warden being around twenty years until they die. 

Plus, what you did was not for nothing either. That is not thinking ahead at all regarding the world storyline; which has a lot of elements in Origins and II that will likely carry over to Dragon Age IV. So defeating the blight was a great thing, but doing so kept the blight from hitting the rest of the world, which is the most important thing. 

[LinksOcarina]

Nizaris1 wrote...

If the Warden die in DA:O, then there is a default character, like in Awakening, it is a no problem

My Warden is still live, she only become a Warden for 1 year, she have 29 years to live, her carrier just ended there in Ferelden? She can accomplish more...she deserve more...

And the two years intern during Awakening, Golems and Witch Hunt don't count for anything either?

[upsettingshorts]

I think DA2 should have let me import my Spirit Monk from Jade Empire.

[LinksOcarina]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I just look at vanilla

no matter what, her carrier should not end there in Ferelden, 29 or 28 years is a long years.

if she become the warden at age 20, she will die at 50, so what she do just waiting to die horribly?

No.

We are just not seeing her continued adventures. Her part in the story is over for now, or forever. 

[Herr Uhl]

Nizaris1 wrote...

if she become the warden at age 20, she will die at 50, so what she do just waiting to die horribly?

That is what the vast majority of wardens do. Take care of the occasional darkspawn raiding party and staying vigilant.

[Herr Uhl]

Nizaris1 wrote...

DA2 is a story that already happened, if DA3 is about Inquisition, why not making DA2 is about the Warden become the Inquisitor investigating Hawke?

What does the mage rebellion have to do with darkspawn?

[upsettingshorts]

Nizaris1 wrote...

DA2 is about Varric telling a story to CIA...err...Cassandra about what already happened. It is all already happened. it can be a canon or back story, that Templar and Mages are fighting each other.

Why not just jump the plot because there is no point playing as Hawke at all. In the end we are going to investigate who behind everything right?

Except that's not the point.

While the narrative of the game reveals that Cassandra's notion of what happened is false regardless of anything we do, that's not what we're really intended to control.  The proof of this is we can't decide to make it play out so that Cassandra's assumptions are correct.  Yet Hawke's actions are part of history, Varric's account is simply a more accurate retelling of it.

What's up to us - and this is the point - is the why.   There's a persistent disconnect between some of DA2's biggest admirers and some of its biggest critics who preferred DAO on the forums, and it's revealed in this subtle difference of opinion over the nature of choice in both games:

The refrain of the latter group laments the reduction in "choices that matter" from DAO to DA2.  They cite things like Bhelan/Harrowmont, or the boon, or whatever.  It's a list of whats.  What did the Warden do?  DAO cares deeply about what you choose to do, and tells you all about what you did in epilogue cards at the end of the story.  DAO is a game of whats.  That has an appeal, no question.  The Warden's reasons for doing any of what he/she does don't matter to anyone, and that has the benefit of allowing players to imagine whatever motivation they want as the game won't really endeavor to contradict them by actively asking them to explain themselves.

Overall DA2 is not a game of whats.  The whats already happened.  Cassandra learns about them through Varric, and the big picture stuff never really changes all that much, because Hawke is in the context of DA2's narrative a historical figure and the setting is effectively in past tense.  What DA2 is, and what most of its choices offered are, is a game of whys.  Without getting sidetracked into a discussion of paraphrases or voiced protagonists, DA2 asks your character's opinion on things a lot and tracks/responds to them in a meaningful way.  It influences how your companions feel about you, and their own motivations for behaving the way they do.   That isn't to say it did this perfectly, but that's a different post.

If there's one aspect of DA2's marketing that was more accurate than anyone I think anticipated, it was the question: "Who is the Champion of Kirkwall?"  

The answer is:  "That's completely up to you."

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 03 décembre 2012 - 06:11 .

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

I don't see how the Warden would be the PC in DA3. From what has been said (this is not confirmed, just eluded to) that the mage/templar war is not going to be the focus of DA3. Not only that, but it has been said many times that your warden's story is over. Grey Wardens are suppose to be neutral and try not to get into the middle of political situations.

[upsettingshorts]

Nizaris1 wrote...

The warden is neutral but yet both King and Queen of Ferelden maybe Grey Wardens, paragon of Orzamar can be a Grey Warden, the one who blow up the Chantry is a Grey Warden

Hah, ask the Wardens if they'll claim him as one of their own after that.

Nizaris1 wrote...

The order have CHANGED

I must have missed the press conference at Weisshaupt.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 03 décembre 2012 - 06:18 .

[addiction21]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think DA2 should have let me import my Spirit Monk from Jade Empire.

Only if I could have my planet runner from SS. A few laser cannons and nukes would settle all the problem in Kirkwall.

[upsettingshorts]

Nizaris1 wrote...

No matter what, the fact is Anders is a GREY WARDEN, most people see him just a mage, but he is not, he is forever a GREY WARDEN

The Grey Wardens and Anders himself would both disagree, probably emphatically.

Nizaris1 wrote...

The order have changed after the 5th Blight

[Citation needed]

Nizaris1 wrote...

The king and queen of Ferelden are Wardens that is totally political, even if Loghain a Warden, Alistair as the king, that we got father in law and son in law in politic.

That shape everything afterward and don't say it don't effect anything

Something can happen and be an exception to a rule and not the start of a permanent trend.

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

No matter what, the fact is Anders is a GREY WARDEN, most people see him just a mage, but he is not, he is forever a GREY WARDEN

The Grey Wardens and Anders himself would both disagree, probably emphatically.

Nizaris1 wrote...

The order have changed after the 5th Blight

[Citation needed]

Nizaris1 wrote...

The king and queen of Ferelden are Wardens that is totally political, even if Loghain a Warden, Alistair as the king, that we got father in law and son in law in politic.

That shape everything afterward and don't say it don't effect anything

Something can happen and be an exception to a rule and not the start of a permanent trend.

Even in DA2 Stoud states they can't stay to help you with the Qunari because they can't get in the middle of a political situation.

Also, in DAO you are kind of thrust into the middle of it due to Alistair.  If Alistair had not had a claim to the throne, I don't think that you would have been in that situation.

[Dhiro]

Nizaris1 wrote...

The king and queen of Ferelden are Wardens that is totally political, even if Loghain a Warden, Alistair as the king, that we got father in law and son in law of Grey Wardens in politic.

That shape everything afterward and don't say it don't effect anything

I don't know. It sounds to me like our PC in Origins was just really bad at being a Warden, as far as neutrality goes anyway. In the end, we really don't know what the Wardens in Orlais or Anderfells think about how things were handled in Ferelden.

[Dhiro]

Nizaris1 wrote...

In shepperate memory, the warden who select the King of Orzamar, and become a paragon, that sure something and don't say it doesn't mean anything

the Dalish also have debt with the Warden who solve their werewolf problem, don't say it doesn't mean anything, if Lanaya become the Keeper, the warden who cause that

the warden who restore the Urn of sacred Ashes the most important relic of the Chantry, don't say it doesn't mean anything, that is totally political

accept it, Grey Warden is the key, DA world is nothing without Grey Warden

Ferelden, maybe. I'm not sure about Thedas as a whole. Personally I find Grey Warding boring and hope we won't have to be a member of the Order again, but that's just me.

[upsettingshorts]

Rpgfantasyplayer wrote...
Even in DA2 Stoud states they can't stay to help you with the Qunari because they can't get in the middle of a political situation.

Also, in DAO you are kind of thrust into the middle of it due to Alistair.  If Alistair had not had a claim to the throne, I don't think that you would have been in that situation.

The thing is, Origins has two "core stories."

The first is the Blight.

The second is the succession crisis in Ferelden.

That a Grey Warden can, in a specific scenario, assume the throne by the end of a game is a result of an extremely unique and desperate scenario that needed timely resolution.  The Grey Warden order at large has quite literally no idea what is going on in Ferelden, and therefore was not in a position to sanction anything that took place there.

Nizaris1 wrote...

In shepperate memory, the warden who select the King of Orzamar, and become a paragon, that sure something and don't say it doesn't mean anything

the Dalish also have debt with the Warden who solve their werewolf problem, don't say it doesn't mean anything, if Lanaya become the Keeper, the warden who cause that

the warden who restore the Urn of sacred Ashes the most important relic of the Chantry, don't say it doesn't mean anything, that is totally political

accept it, Grey Warden is the key, DA world is nothing without Grey Warden

Gee, whatever will Thedas do when the Warden dies?  S/he's the only one capable of anything!

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 03 décembre 2012 - 06:31 .

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

Nizaris1 wrote...

In shepperate memory, the warden who select the King of Orzamar, and become a paragon, that sure something and don't say it doesn't mean anything

the Dalish also have debt with the Warden who solve their werewolf problem, don't say it doesn't mean anything, if Lanaya become the Keeper, the warden who cause that

the warden who restore the Urn of sacred Ashes the most important relic of the Chantry, don't say it doesn't mean anything, that is totally political

accept it, Grey Warden is the key, DA world is nothing without Grey Warden

You could also argue that this only happened because you had to get them to honor the treaties and this is they only way you could do it.  That doesn't mean that it is a standard practice of the Grey Warden's.  Not only that, but it was only one (or two if you count Alistair) warden in the political foray, not the whole order.

Modifié par Rpgfantasyplayer, 03 décembre 2012 - 06:32 .