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[Aolbain]

FreshIstay wrote...

@hhh89

Fereldan stood and won against Orlais once, it can do it again as far Im concerned.

Yes, while Orlais were getting their asses kicked my the Nevarans.

[AlexanderCousland]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

DarkSpiral wrote...


I'd be happy to agree with you on most things. But in this case the driving force behind the entire adventue (Alistair) could be

a) Fereldan's king
a celebrated Grey Warden
c) stone-cold dead.

It's option c) that really makes the idea that SOME version of these events always happen a little sticky.

AH. but Gaider said "they could have happend very differently"

If option C is true in your version of the game, It might be Lohgain doing the searching for Maric, they were (are) best friends.

In the playthrough I'm talking about, no it couldn't be.

Or maybe the Warden had a reason to find Maric, thus hired Varric or Isabela...My Warden DID know Isabela...after all.  who knows? 

Possible, but the Warden I'm talking about is a mage. Are non-qunari mages welcome on Par Vollen?

Maybe a Mage who is considered friend by the Arishok, or Bas-ilit Ann...or however you spell that.
We'll have to see.

[AlexanderCousland]

Lord Aesir wrote...

It has far less influence in Thedas than almost any other country.  How is it not minor?  If anything its in a worse position after the Blight than before considering the wide ranging destruction.

The blog post confirmed it as a center of templar power as previously mentioned, and it is a .  It's a city-state so technically speaking it is a nation.  As for the Viscount, I never claimed he had power over the rest of Thedas, he doesn't even have total control over his own city.  What I'm saying is that, as a prominent city in the region, momentous events occuring there have weight in Thedas.

 
BLOG POST????? LINK AND POST PLEASE AND THANK YOU.

Ander's blowing up the Chantry in Kirkwall resonated with the rest of Thedas. True.

Kirkwall having political influence  with the rest of Thedas because of that event, NO.

The Crown of MOST nations control's the politic's and armies of their respective nations, which is my whole point.

The Seperation of Church and State.

Kirkwall is but a mere city in the Free Marches, Starkhaven is the Largest of the cities. In terms of being able to weild power POLITICALLY throughout the rest of Thedas, I dont see how.  

Here is a List of Nation's :

Nevarra
Orlais
Fereldan
Antiva 
Rivain
Tevinter Imperium
Free Marches.
The Anderfels
Par Vollen and Seheron

Process of elimination:
Anderfels, the blight pretty much left the land desecrated, however, they have the toughest warriors and most devout priests. The Order pretty much  runs that show, even though they have an Official Crown.

Free Marches, a loose confederation of city states that rarely unite on any matter unless a larger nation decides to invade.

Antiva, Wealth holds the Power in Antiva, The Crows will most likely kill anyone who invaded before, or shortly after they decided to conquer. The Deadliest assasins, however they bear no military might.

Rivain, The Llomeryn Accords were signed there, they exist peacefully with Qunari and Elves and are not commonly followers of Andraste, the more tattoo's the higher ones social standing. 

Par-Vollen and Seheron, Qun-Inhabited islands, they were ousted from the mainlands by the Exalted Marches and host an on going war with Tevinter, were they so powerful they'd kill the Magister's and move to the rest of Thedas, after all they've been around since 6:30 steel and only have two small Islands.

Tevinter Imperium, Their Magic is significant in terms of power, and If their attention was not focused on the Qunari, they'd most likely focus on the southern nations. Their power has significantly waned over the years and their borders no longer strecth the edges of thedas. Tevinter is universally reviled. Past-Power is not an excuse for Power they do not currently posses.


THAT LEAVES:

Orlais 
Nevarra
Fereldan

In that order, In my eyes. 

Down-playing Fereldan's status in Thedas makes you sound like an Orlesian, which is quite odd considering both of your Protaginists(if human, or elf)  have been Fereldan. Are you some sort of Turn-Coat who consider's what foreigner's say about your homeland as golden rule? 

It's kind of like saying "Im British, and the French always say we suck, so we must suck!"









 

Modifié par FreshIstay, 07 décembre 2012 - 12:45 .

[Heimdall]

FreshIstay wrote...

BLOG POST????? LINK AND POST PLEASE AND THANK YOU.

Ander's blowing up the Chantry in Kirkwall resonated with the rest of Thedas. True.

Kirkwall having political influence  with the rest of Thedas because of that event, NO.

I honestly don't care enough to search for it, its not a major feature of my point at any rate.

Did I say that Kirkwall had political influance?  No, I did not, thank you.

The Crown of MOST nations control's the politic's and armies of their respective nations, which is my whole point.

The Seperation of Church and State.

Kirkwall is but a mere city in the Free Marches, Starkhaven is the Largest of the cities. In terms of being able to weild power POLITICALLY throughout the rest of Thedas, I dont see how. 

If that's your sole point, then neither Ferelden nor Kirkwall has much if any political influence over the rest of Thedas.  I have never claimed either.  For starters, I feel I must point out to you that the Free Marches are not a nation.  It's a term used to refer to a region divided into territories controlled by a number of city-states.  Kirkwall is not merely a city in a nation, it is its own sovereign entity.

Here is a List of Nation's :

Nevarra
Orlais
Fereldan
Antiva 
Rivain
Tevinter Imperium
Free Marches.
The Anderfels
Par Vollen and Seheron

Process of elimination:
Anderfels, the blight pretty much left the land desecrated, however, they have the toughest warriors and most devout priests. The Order pretty much  runs that show, even though they have an Official Crown.

Free Marches, a loose confederation of city states that rarely unite on any matter unless a larger nation decides to invade.

Antiva, Wealth holds the Power in Antiva, The Crows will most likely kill anyone who invaded before, or shortly after they decided to conquer. The Deadliest assasins, however they bear no military might.

Rivain, The Llomeryn Accords were signed there, they exist peacefully with Qunari and Elves and are not commonly followers of Andraste, the more tattoo's the higher ones social standing. 

Par-Vollen and Seheron, Qun-Inhabited islands, they were ousted from the mainlands by the Exalted Marches and host an on going war with Tevinter, were they so powerful they'd kill the Magister's and move to the rest of Thedas, after all they've been around since 6:30 steel and only have two small Islands.

Tevinter Imperium, Their Magic is significant in terms of power, and If their attention was not focused on the Qunari, they'd most likely focus on the southern nations. Their power has significantly waned over the years and their borders no longer strecth the edges of thedas. Tevinter is universally reviled. Past-Power is not an excuse for Power they do not currently posses.

What on earth does any of this have to due with what I've been talking about?

Anderfels:  I don't care, its a minor nation.

Free Marches:  I'm not sure what this is meant to prove.  It certainly cotradicts nothing I've said.

Antiva:  The reach of the Crows stratches far outside their border.  The mere prospect of attracting the attention of the Crows has made other nations wary of crossing them.  I'd classify them as a fairly influential nation in their own way.

Rivain: Again, I don't care

Seheron and Par Vollen:  Only a small portion of Par Vollen is actually visible on the maps of Thedas that I found, but I was under the impression that it was significantly larger than Seheron, and Seheron is nearly half the size of Tervinter, so yeah "small islands"...  It took three Exalted Marches, drawing troops from all over Thedas including Ferelden, to push the Qunari off the continent and even then they maintained a foothold in Rivain.  Previously they had held control of larges portions of Tevinter, Antiva, and Rivain.  A few of them managed to get as far south as Kirkwall and briefly occupy the city.

Tevinter:  Past power?  What on earth are you talking about?  Tevinter remains a nations of great wealth and power even if it isn't the prime empire in Thedas, and they've managed to hold off the Qunari singlehandedly for centuries at this point, the very people it took three Exalted Marches to push off the continent the first time.  SO I'd say their fairly powerful.  They also successfully defended themselves from several Exalted Marches from the Chantry in Orlais after their split.  The Imperium is not a nation to be taken lightly even in modern times.

THAT LEAVES:

Orlais 
Nevarra
Fereldan

In that order, In my eyes. 

Down-playing Fereldan's status in Thedas makes you sound like an Orlesian, which is quite odd considering both of your Protaginists(if human, or elf)  have been Fereldan. Are you some sort of Turn-Coat who consider's what foreigner's say about your homeland as golden rule? 

It's kind of like saying "Im British, and the French always say we suck, so we must suck!?"

In order of what, political influence?  If so then I agree, Ferelden is on the bottom.

I'm not downplaying it.  You on the otherhand should provide some rationale for why Ferelden would have as much influence as you claim.  The way I see it:

Military Power:  Ferelden's armies are devestated by the Blight and the Civil War, even a decade isn't enough to recoup the sheer population loss.  Not to mention the lost of most (Or all depending on your choice) of their mages.

Economic Power: Ferelden isn't the source of any sought after good and it isn't in the middle of any trade routes between other nations.  Even its nobles don't seem as wealthy as their counterparts in other nations if Kirkwall and the Orlesian Duke are any indication.  I have yet to see any indication of Ferelden as a particularly wealthy nation.

Political Power:  I must have missed the part where the leaders of other nations started kowtowing to Ferelden royalty.  Since when did anyone but Orlais pay the slightest attention to them?  And even then only because they're interested in expanding their own territory.

Cultural Influence: Ferelden culture is looked down upon as barbaric by virtually every civilization in Thedas.

I'm not taking anyone's word for it,  but I have yet to see compelling evidence that Ferelden is such a rising star as you claim it is.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 07 décembre 2012 - 03:42 .

[Heimdall]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Economy : Ferelden have trade with the Dwarf, especially Lyrium trade, with Bhelen as King of Orzamar, and Grey Warden Templar King of Ferelden, sure that is something. With old thaigs been cleared from Darkspawn give excess of old abandoned mines and what ever treasure in there. Circle Tower with Dagna creating new kind of Lyrium

Hardly unique.  Tevinter is known to have extensive trade with the dwarves.  All countries with mages have some form of trade with them.  What benefits the Dwarves is not a benefit for Ferelden.  Since when does Dagna create new types of lyrium.

Political : Ferelden under Alistair have so many organizations and races at Ferelden back.
- Grey Warden
- Templar
- Mage (especially if Warden is a Mage)
- Assassin and Spies (with Zevran and Leliana influence/contacts)
- Qunari (with Sten influence)
- Dalish and Dwarves (especially with Dalish or Dwarf Paragon Warden)

The Grey Wardens are not subject to the king, the answer to the First Warden in the Anderfels.  The Templars answer to the Chantry before the king.  The mages of Ferelden are either mostly dead or wiped out, besides, every nation in Thedas has mages.  Zevran didn't stick around and Leliana went to work for the Divine.  Head canon is not canon, Nizaris.  The Qunari do not consider Ferelden an ally, nor would they ever unless the entire country converted to the Qun.  The Dalish and Dwarves were compelled by the ancient treaties to aid the Wardens, they have no particuar loyalty to Ferelden.

Culture : After the Blight, races in Ferelden are working together, not like the last Blight, all races now are more tolerance to each other, that create a new culture since everybody respect everybody. Even Werewolves, if they are the part of the army, are respected until they go beserk. Dalish and human are more friendly than before, even Zathrian who hate human trying to be nice until he disappear, under Layana it is far better. So culturally, Ferelden is like my country Malaysia, rich with cultures, multicultural and up to today everybody can live together in harmony, of course sometimes there are issues, but all being resolves diplomatically

I said it before and I'll say it again.  Headcanon is not canon, Nizaris.  The races are not more tolerant of each other.  The elves still resent humans and humans still look down on elves.  And the dwarves just don't care about anything going on on the surface.

Religion : with the Sacred Ashes restored, Ferelden become the center of Andrastrian, pilgrims will come from all over the world, like Makkah of Muslims. That will increase influence over Andrastrian, the Chantry and increase trade too.

So Ferelden after the 5th Blight is an important country, the rising star

Not really, the influx of pilgrims may bring a small economic boost, but does Saudi Arabia have influence over all Muslims just because Mekkah is there?  No, they don't.  Does Israel have influence over all Catholics since the places of Jesus' birth and death are located within its borders?  No, Catholocism is centered around the Vatican in Rome.  Ferelden is already known to be Andraste's birthplace, and yet it is Orlais that holds the Chantry.  Point being, there is no reason to think that the discovery of Andraste's Ashes would lead to any increase in Ferelden's religious authority.

So no, not at all.

[Heimdall]

Nizaris1 wrote...

To add, Ferelden is proven formidable, because Ferelden can end the Blight before it truely happened...see, no country can do that before, surly that rise ferelden name through out the world

Ferelden was only able to accomplish that because of help from the Dalish and Dwarves, not to mention the Warden and his special protagonist factor.  Without them, Ferelden would have been next to annihilated.

Besides, the Fifth Blight is considered the weakest Blight yet.

[AlexanderCousland]

Lord Aesir wrote...
The blog post confirmed it (kirkwall)as a center of templar power as previously mentioned, and it is a .  It's a city-state so technically speaking it is a nation

FreshIstay wrote...
BLOG POST????? LINK AND POST PLEASE AND THANK YOU

Lord Aesir wrote...

I honestly don't care enough to search for it, its not a major feature of my point at any rate.

Lord Aesir wrote...

For starters, I feel I must point out to you that the Free Marches are not a nation

 

FreshIstay wrote...
Orlais
Nevarra
Fereldan
In that order, In my eyes.

Lord Aesir wrote...
In order of what, political influence?  If so then I agree, Ferelden is on the bottom

Lord Aesir wrote...

I must have missed the part where the leaders of other nations started kowtowing to Ferelden royalty.  Since when did anyone but Orlais pay the slightest attention to them?  And even then only because they're interested in expanding their own territory

First.

Dont Adress me with opposition if you are unwilling to cite sources or back up your statements with facts.
I.E. Quote's from the Devs. Official Bioware published Material, Forum Posts from Dev's. Offical in-game codex.

Second.

Make up your mind,  your started off saying Kirkwall is a nation, then you said the Free Marches arent. Then you correct yourself in an attempt to correct me by pointing out Kirkwall isnt a nation. Your almost as bad as Romney.

Third.

My whole arguement was political influence of Fereldan. I never claimed Fereldan was the most poltically influential nation in Thedas. I clearly listed the Nations I FELT were the most politically influential and consider the major nations of Thedas In the order I THINK that they are. and YOU AGREED.  So to my point, If Fereldan is only behind Orlais and Nevarra, to me, that constitutes Fereldan as "major" if you will.

Fourth.

If you have already acknowledged that Orlais is the most powerful single human nation. and very prominent Orlesian noble's have been witnessed courting Fereldan Noble's, regardless of their end goals, that should tell you that at least some Fereldan nobles carry some clout. Fereldan's have won civil war with Orlais, and defeated a Blight within the span of 70 years. And I seriously, very seriously doubt that Denerim, the birthplace of Andraste and Seat of the Monarch doesnt draw attention, Amarathine as well, and Gwaren is on the Waking sea, relatively small but a major trade port no less, That's respectable, and while I have no doubt that the blight has left devestation, I have faith that Fereldan will stand strong. I have no reason to believe otherwise considering who I left in power (or any of the possible monarch's for that matter). Not to mention, the official hardcover Dragon Age 2 limted edition encyclopedia & guide establishes that Fereldan is "well on their way to becoming a power on the continent"... You can go with what you think, I'll go by the Material that the Dev's officially release.  

Fifth

My point about Tevinter, Par Vollen, and Seheron was that they are so busy battling with eachother that they really cant focus on anything else. As a result, Tevinter's power has considerably dwindeld in Thedas, thus there are other nations on the rise. Also, the Thedas map is what it is, you cannot add " imaginary extra land" to back Par Vollen being larger that what we can see.  

 


 


  

[DarkSpiral]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Ferelden was only able to accomplish that because of help from the Dalish and Dwarves, not to mention the Warden and his special protagonist factor. Without them, Ferelden would have been next to annihilated.

That is why ferelden is a unique country not like any other country, the dwarves and elves can joined together with human, they are all considered as FERELDENS despite of their race is.

<_<

You're making that up, whole cloth.  That isn't even headcanon, that's you whipping up your own fanfiction.

[DarkSpiral]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Not really, the influx of pilgrims may bring a small economic boost, but does Saudi Arabia have influence over all Muslims just because Mekkah is there? No, they don't. Does Israel have influence over all Catholics since the places of Jesus' birth and death are located within its borders? No, Catholocism is centered around the Vatican in Rome. Ferelden is already known to be Andraste's birthplace, and yet it is Orlais that holds the Chantry. Point being, there is no reason to think that the discovery of Andraste's Ashes would lead to any increase in Ferelden's religious authority.

So no, not at all.

Yes, saudi Arabia have influence over all Muslims because Ka'abah (the cube building) is in Makkah, Muslims all over the world going there, millions of Muslims making pilgrimage to Makkah every year and doing personal visit every time. That boost Saudi Arabia economy too.Muslims all over the world no matter what sect we are praying facing Makkah/Ka'abah. Muslims are not like anyother religious people, we are bond with religion up to today (even secular Muslims are concern about our religion)

We are talking about medieval set up, not modern. do you forget what "Crusade" is? Who hold Jerusalem at that time have influence over Christendom. Today yes Israel who hold jerusalem, Christians don't mind because that is you guys believe in your book...Jesus will come and establish new Jerusalem right? That is what you call as Judeo-Christian belief. And what you think all these Israel-USA-Palestine conflict  is all about? Vatican have relationship with Israel, and USA have relationship with Vatican and Israel...

And this is where I call it done.  Arguing over bizzare interpretations of game events is one things.  When entire paragraphs get devoted to real religion, its no longer funny.  Way to much of a powder keg.

[DarkSpiral]

Nizaris1 wrote...

And this is where I call it done. Arguing over bizzare interpretations of game events is one things. When entire paragraphs get devoted to real religion, its no longer funny. Way to much of a powder keg.

The premise is about real religion, so i use real religion as comparison.

I don't care what the reasons are.  Real religion is all but gauranteed to devolve the threaf into something genuinely antoagonistic.  Stop.

[Allan Schumacher]

Real religion is also the type of thing that will lead to threads getting closed (since it'll undoubtedly get political and real world politics are actually not allowed on this forum. Plenty of other places on the web to discuss that).

[AlexanderCousland]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Ferelden was only able to accomplish that because of help from the Dalish and Dwarves, not to mention the Warden and his special protagonist factor.  Without them, Ferelden would have been next to annihilated.

Besides, the Fifth Blight is considered the weakest Blight yet.

The Dalish elves in Ferelden, The Kingdom of Orzammar in Ferelden. Highever, Redcliffe, South Reach, Dragon's Peak, Denerim, Gwaren, Amaranthine, West Hill, Harper's Ford.  FERELDEN'S.  The Warden Commander (King, Queen, Teryn, Arl, General, Noble Dwarf/Human, Commoner Dwarf/Elf) Morrigan, Wynne, Leliana, Alistair, Arishok, Mabari War Hound, Zeveran, Shale.


Weakest Blight or no, Fereldan stood against and defeated the blight.  The same cannot be said for any other nation. That speaks to the Fortitude and character of it's Leader's.  

The city of Kirkwall couldnt even control it's own people, no chance it withstands a blight.




 

[DarkSpiral]

FreshIstay wrote...

The Dalish elves in Ferelden, The Kingdom of Orzammar in Ferelden. Highever, Redcliffe, South Reach, Dragon's Peak, Denerim, Gwaren, Amaranthine, West Hill, Harper's Ford.  FERELDEN'S.  The Warden Commander (King, Queen, Teryn, Arl, General, Noble Dwarf/Human, Commoner Dwarf/Elf) Morrigan, Wynne, Leliana, Alistair, Arishok, Mabari War Hound, Zeveran, Shale.

I'm not really clear what you're trying to say with this list of place and name, FreshIstay.  Is it simply a list of peole involved in fighting the Blight?

[TEWR]

because i am a Muslim?

Because he used it to illustrate a point.

You took that point and made it the discussion itself. Thus, you're at fault in my view.

It has nothing to do with your religion. That you would try and play that card really just....

Well that's not a type of thing I like myself, when people try to say "You're doing this to me for X reason!" while ignoring the reality of the situation. It grinds my gears. It rustles my jimmies. 

And other assorted phrases of the like.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 décembre 2012 - 07:35 .

[Maria Caliban]

Orzammar is no more in Ferelden than Ferelden is in Orzammar. They are politically and geologically distinct. It's just that while most countries are separated horizontally, they're separated vertically.

Nor are the Dalish Fereldans. The entire point of the Dalish is that they're elves not under human rule. The Dalish have a nomadic existence and can be found constantly moving through different countries.

The reason the Fifth Blight ended so quickly is because it had the PC fighting against it. And the PC is not necessarily a Fereldan.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 07 décembre 2012 - 07:39 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I don't care what the reasons are. Real religion is all but gauranteed to devolve the threaf into something genuinely antoagonistic. Stop.

Why put it on me and not Lord Aesir?

because i am a Muslim?

No Nizaris. No.

Can we please just revert back to Dragon Age Lore before the Dev's come in and  put  the perverbial "nail in the coffin"

[AlexanderCousland]

DarkSpiral wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

The Dalish elves in Ferelden, The Kingdom of Orzammar in Ferelden. Highever, Redcliffe, South Reach, Dragon's Peak, Denerim, Gwaren, Amaranthine, West Hill, Harper's Ford.  FERELDEN'S.  The Warden Commander (King, Queen, Teryn, Arl, General, Noble Dwarf/Human, Commoner Dwarf/Elf) Morrigan, Wynne, Leliana, Alistair, Arishok, Mabari War Hound, Zeveran, Shale.

I'm not really clear what you're trying to say with this list of place and name, FreshIstay.  Is it simply a list of peole involved in fighting the Blight?

Just to prove, Dwares and Elves were not the only reason Fereldan deafeated the blight. that's all

[TEWR]

I'd like to know Bioware's stance on Darkspawn designs and how they'd look in DA3.