854 réponses à ce sujet

[DarkSpiral]

Nizaris1 wrote...

That is why i say DA is dead

If it wsa dead, DA3 wouldn't be happening.  Perhaps you mean dead to YOU.  If so, why are you bothering with all this?

[Pzykozis]

Nizaris1 wrote...

DA2 must be the continuation of DA:O, because every decision in DA:O make changes to the world. The vent must continue, the changes must continue.

When save Urn of Sacred Ashes in DA:O, DA2 must show the Templar are more zealous, the Chantry is more stronger.

When make Warden a Queen, DA2 must show Cousland name restored, Fergus re-establish the Cousland.

When make Alistair a King, show that Grey Warden involve in politic, become more influential.

Every single thing in DA:O must be shown in DA2, because of BUTTERFLY EFFECT....that is THE WORLD....not just shifting everything and create a new story...

Except noone knows about the ashes, Alistair gave up being a Grey Warden like the petulant child he is but rules alongside anora and there is no Warden on the throne Queen or otherwise.

[saMoorai]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

in TES, bethesda simply making new things on each game, every choices in previous game doesn't matter because the next game usually take hundreds of years background, so players just play new thing in new game.

Oblivion and Skyrim took hundreds years, so everything in Oblivion just being mention in books in Skyrim and the main character is just anonymous. And Oblivion have linear story...in the end Martin sacrifice himself to kill Mehrune Dagon...the end...next game mention about that, but the whole game is new game.

The story is not important at all in TES, so the world is not actually important. The main character have nothing to do with anything, just unknown prisoner of unknown crime escape prison.

But DA, we have numerous origins, numerous choices, numerous consequences, have chain reaction, butterfly effect

No.

[Manic Sheep]

It does not HAVE to spin off the events from DA:O. The choices in DA:O allowed you to build character and change how that story went and ended. Continuing to focus on these choices in future games would just be unfeasible. The most you can reasonably expect is references, some small bits of extra content and a few quests being a bit different.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 08 décembre 2012 - 04:09 .

[Manic Sheep]

Nizaris1 wrote...

It is not about quests, no it is not about that.

Changes is not quests. example, sacred Ashes restored in DA:O, in DA2 there is a quest of people selling fake Ash, not that.

The changes is the WORLD.

And that Bioware and David Gaider can't handle

You keep saying the world needs to change. As in what? what do you actually want to implement in the game to show this?

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 08 décembre 2012 - 04:07 .

[Pzykozis]

Nizaris1 wrote...

It is not about quests, no it is not about that.

Changes is not quests. example, sacred Ashes restored in DA:O, in DA2 there is a quest of people selling fake Ash, not that.

The changes is the WORLD.

And that Bioware and David Gaider can't handle

I'm not sure why you're continually saying it asthough its a fault of Bioware or Gaider that they can't make 20 odd games all at once, what you're looking for is specific wish fulfillment the land of fanfiction and the like its completely unrealistic.

Not only that but so many of the things you consider important aren't really important at all, the ashes probably weren't even bloody real. Place is like walking into a hot box thats been going on for hours only with lyrium.

[DarkSpiral]

Nizaris1 wrote...
 ...many things...

I had an entire list of responses.  But I'm done.  This was never the point of this thread, and I'm done derailing it.

So: Darkspawn and their possible relevance to DA: Inquisition.  Even if only a series of sidequests, is it likely they'll have any impact in the Mage/Templar war?

I think so.  I use the word impact with care, however.  I doubt the 'spawn will figure prominently into the resolution (if there is actually any resolution to the war in DA:I) of the war, but I don't doubt they will be there.

Here are some ideas I've had:

The rebel mages havce set up a hiding spot in a section of the Deep Roads.  This is probably a very stupid thing to do, and hopefully we get to tell someone just that,  The PC has to (if they are siding with the mages) help secure the area.  Direct battle with the darkspawn may be necessary, but it would also be cool if we set up distractions.  Flemeth gave Morrigan "somethign else for the horde to smell" back in DA:O  We could have a mission along those lines.

Kal Sharok.  Oh yes, please.  I seem to recall (but could be wrong) that the entrace the only other known dwarvencity to survive is within Orlais' territory.  I want to see it.  Are the dwarves different physically, socially, mentally, than the dwarves of Orzammar?  And where there are dwarven cities, darkspawn are nearby.  I had the impression Kal Sjarock was actually much deeper than Orzammar was (from Codex entries in Golems of Amgarak) so maybe we get to see portions of the Deep Roads that are older than the ones we've explored so far.
Well, maybe not older than the thaig Hawke's expedition found.  Tasty, tasy speculation.

The Wardens allies.  Nate mentions them in his mission (assuming he survived DA:A), and I want to know what the heck he was talking about.  Are these "not dwarves" the awakened Disciples?  We don't know we killed all of them (if you killed any of the optional ones at all, of course.  I never take the Architect's deal) at the end of DA:A.  Are they citizens of Kal Sharok, altered somehow?  We have no idea if their survival was as straightforward as Orzammar's was. 

Using a section of the Deep Roads to travel under the "other sides" defenses (this sceario could happen regardless of which side of the war you choose to favor) and suprise the enemy from below.

Hm...what else...

[AlexanderCousland]

Nizaris1 wrote...

That is why DA2 is new story, and the ending doesn't matter, easier for them making DA3...

Id have to agree with this statement...THIS STATEMENT ALONE.

Regardless of who you chose the Templar's take the city, sure some Mages escape if you side with them but they only escape to spread the word. Kirkwall's story ends 9:38 and Asunder ends 9:40. Last available info on the direction of the story is that the Lord Seeker has broken the Llomeryn Accord (which seperate's Seeker's and Templars from Chantry authority) and Fiona, Rhys, Evangiline, and a group of Mages are holed up in some area with the Templars ready to kill them or starve them out.  So, War is inevitable. Regardless of whom Hawke chooses to protect or help this will happen, effectively rendering Hawke's story meaningless as protaginist to have an effect on the events that occur, It's more a game for deciding which companions and npc's you like.

In Asunder it was mentioned that Empress Celene may be in danger of usurpation, or may be dead. Regardless, This is the only way I see any descision of Origin's coming into play, whoever the Fereldan Monarch(s) is/are and their ability to secure Fereldan's independence could be a factor because Im under the impression that Orlesian's are conspiring to invade again considering Fereldan's weakend state. 

Grey Warden's, Avernus' research and the "untapped power", How might that have an effect on the future of the order, Hawke did send the Letter's straight to the First Warden. One of the devs were quoted as saying "The Warden's were up to something in DA2, you'll get to find out exactly what."

hold onto hope Nizaris...all is not lost.

[DarkSpiral]

FreshIstay wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

That is why DA2 is new story, and the ending doesn't matter, easier for them making DA3...

Id have to agree with this statement...THIS STATEMENT ALONE.

Yes, yes.  DA2 was intended to be more personal and less epic.  Now what about darkspawn?

[Pzykozis]

DarkSpiral wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

That is why DA2 is new story, and the ending doesn't matter, easier for them making DA3...

Id have to agree with this statement...THIS STATEMENT ALONE.

Yes, yes.  DA2 was intended to be more personal and less epic.  Now what about darkspawn?

That brick wall, those bricks used to be white, now they're smeared red from the collective smashing of faces into it.

I'd still stay Darkspawn as just relevent because they're a race inherent to the world, I doubt we'll see another story focused on them anytime soon, because the world is thankfully not a one trick pony, besides if you want the spawn to be fairly credible in their world ending way you can't just continuously beat them, it'd be a joke.

[Aolbain]

Nizaris1 wrote...

It is not about quests, no it is not about that.

Changes is not quests. example, sacred Ashes restored in DA:O, in DA2 there is a quest of people selling fake Ash, not that.

The changes is the WORLD.

And that Bioware and David Gaider can't handle

Ok, lets see YOU handle it. In 18 months (the time they had to develop DA2) I want a long, well written and fleshd-out fanfic detailing what DA2 "should" have been.

Edit: Nizaris1 , you have now both draged in Hitler and played the "you only say this becouse I am X" card. If you hadnt lost this argument before, you have now.

Modifié par Aolbain, 08 décembre 2012 - 02:59 .

[The Elder King]

I still don't understand how the events in DAO should've influenced the world of Thedas. The Blight was contained in Ferelden, so other countries weren't affected by it, why should the other countries change for what happened in Ferelden? Unless we play again in Ferelden, the events of the game woudn't affect the sequels, because those event didn't affect the rest of Thedas, with the exception of the mage and the dalish boons, which weren't properly implemented (at least the first, I'm not sure about the second, but considering that the dalish remained outside Kirkwall for seven years, I doubt that the boon was implemented well), and the mage's one would have lead to a lot of problems, since mages of other CIrcles would've want to have the same rights the mages of Ferelden gained.



DA2, or at least the last Act and hours, directly affects the rest of Thedas, because mages
ans templars (even if it's after Asunder, though it's undeniable that the events of Kirkwall are crucial for the events of Asunder) left the Chantry, and starts fighting with each other. This influenced the lives of the people of every Andrastian nations, since they would surely get involved in the war (even if only indirectly), and some people would take advantage of the chaos, trying to gain more power. Civil wars might start in all Thedas.
Though to be fair, we don't know yet what will be DAI's plot. We don't know what we, the PC, will have to do, it stop the M-T war, or some other kind of problems.

[The Elder King]

Nizaris1 wrote...

My point is Ferelden is unique country and strong, especially after the 5th Blight where Alistair is the King and warden is the Queen, or Alistair as a King alone or with Anora as a Queen, or the Warden is the King, because it change everything, it change the world...Ferelden is a New World Order

Why "unique"?
About strong, did you see in the game how Ferelden lost an entire army at Ostagar, a civil war was fought between Loghain's and the rebellious noble's armies, how the darkspwan sacked the country for nearly a year?
Ferelden, right after the war, isn't in a good economical and military situation. The epilogue slides shown that it'd recover and became stronger (which isn't necessary true, since Bioware said that they have no problem changing what the slides said if it's necessary for the story, as it was with Anders in DAA), but we don't know in how much time this will happen. At the end of DA2, seven-eight years have passed. It should be 10 at the start of DAI. We don't know how much Ferelden recover, and how much stronger it became. And I greatly doubt that Ferelden is the current superpower at the start of DAI. The gap with Nevarra and Orlais (the most powerful Andrastian nation) is to wide to be filled in 10 years, when in thos 10 years Ferelden was recovering from the Blight.

[Herr Uhl]

I can see the point about how your decisions don't change the world, but this is a necessary evil if you want to have multiple endings taken into account for a sequel. But it is an odd dichotomy about how Nizaris laments how their warden's decisions weren't accounted for and then invalidating any warden that didn't take the exact same path as doing it wrong.

[Heimdall]

Herr Uhl wrote...

I can see the point about how your decisions don't change the world, but this is a necessary evil if you want to have multiple endings taken into account for a sequel. But it is an odd dichotomy about how Nizaris laments how their warden's decisions weren't accounted for and then invalidating any warden that didn't take the exact same path as doing it wrong.

That and Nizaris doesn't seem to get that not every decision is relevant to DA2 and has no reason to appear.

[esper]

Nizaris1 wrote...

hold onto hope Nizaris...all is not lost.

The way i see it, all is lost, what DA3 will turn out to be is damage control...

The issue is about save import, the world of Thedas as we know it, is actually the effect of whatever happen in DA;O. Bioware cannot handle it thoroughly, because it is vast, too big, too many details. What they can do is cameos like in DA2. Even so, there are so many things are retconed no matter what because they have to

So DA3 world MUST BE a world where

- Alistair maybe a king of Ferelden with Anora
- Alistair is a king of Ferelden alone
- The Warden is the King of Ferelden
- The Warden is the Queen of Ferelden
- The Warden is Paragon of Orzamar
- The Dalish have land in ferelden
- The Dalish don't have land in Ferelden
- Alistair have OGB
- Loghain have OGB
- The Warden have OGB
- There is no OGB
- Bhelen is the King of Orzamar
- Harrowmont is the King of Orzamar
- The Circle Tower Annulled in Ferelden
- The Circle Tower saved in Ferelden
- Urn of Sacred Ashes restored
- Urn of Sacred Ashes not restored
- Werewolves going beserk
- No Werewolves
- More Dwarves on surface
- Dwarves remain in Orzamar
- Dalish are friendly with human
- Dalish are gone with Zathrian
- City Elf have Bann
- City Elf insignificant
- Redcliff is restored and popular
- Redcliff destroyed and not popular
- Arl Eamon still have his wife the Orlesian
- Arl Eamon wife is dead
- Connor is alive become a Mage in Circle, a son of Arl, have Orlesian blood
- Connor is dead
- The Warden live
- The Warden/Alistair/Loghain die
- many more...

All these above are in Ferelden, meaning the world of Thedas in Ferelden are these above.

That is why in DA2 all our choices doesn't matter

- Save the run away Mages, they still attack Hawke in later act
- Give the Mages to Templar, the Mages attack Hawke in later act
- Fight the Templar for Mages sake, those Mages still attack Hawke in later act
- Give Ketojan to Arvarad, Ketojan killed, Arvarad attack Hawke
- Refuse to give away Ketojan, Arvarad attack Hawke, Ketojan kill himself
- Meet with Tarohne, no matter what have to fight her.
- Hawke mom cannot be saved no matter what
- Many choices are related to companions and it doesn't even matter
- Anders blow up Chantry no matter what
- Side with Mages, Orsino become monster, Meredith go crazy
- Side with Templar, Orsino become monster, Meredith going crazy
- many more

So, DA3 is BASED on DA2, Bioware have less problem creating DA3 because it is all doesn't matter, the result of each choices are the same

if DA2 is based on DA:O...imagine how much work they have to do? The dialogues, the landscape, the acting, the quests, the environment...everything...it's Butterfly Effect

That is the reason we cannot going back in time to change things, because if we change one thing in the past, we change everything in the future. What ever we do now change the things next...

90 % of those choices only affect Fereldan or another small group:

Alistair/Anora: Affect who is the monarch, can be relevant outside Fereldan, provided Alistair stops with his stupid adventuring and actually starts rule in the worlds where he is king. The warden himself/herself is just and extention off Alistair/Anora and not the one with the real power.

The warden is a paragon. Only relevant for Orzommar. As we are likely not coming back there again we should not here it more than in the passing. The word paragon means nothing to human and elves and perhaps even born topside dwarves.

OGB: Boils down to if it exist and not. The only reason Morrigan have for being concerned with father is if it is a warden she is in love with. Else I think she cares very little for Fereldan. The warden/Alistair/Loghain alive or not, ties directly into this, but to the most of the world it doesn't matter because they don't know what went down and what it takes to stop an Arcdemon. The just know that a 'Hero of Fereldan' exist and either lives or dies. Heck some even doubt that there was a blight.

King of Orzommar. Only Harrowman is relevant for the outside world, if the rumor of him isolating Orzommar become true. Also only have to do with lyrium trade. The rest of the world could care less about the caste system or not. Also this quest already had a pay off for Bhelen.

Urn of sacred ashes are only important for pilgrims who have the means to actually travel there and frauds who can now life of the rumour of the healing dust (as they did in da2). Wherever the ashes are defiled or not does not remove their myth status for the rest of Thedas. The most important outcome there might actually be those who killed Leliana might have unleashed an monster (perhaps an abormination) on the world.

The dalish quest have an outcome in da2. If the werewolf were transformed back and killed and elven child is taking revenge on either the former werewolves or their kin if not the werewolves are beginning to lose their humanity and their kin is looking for a solution.

I don't know what you mean with dwarves remaning in Orsommar? There have always been dwarves in Orzommar.

The dalish never becomes friend with the humans as a whole. That is a gross misunderstanding from your side. At most they are granted a boon which backfires, likely because they are not friends.

City Elf has a Bann, is only important for Fereldan. Fereldan is a backwater country in the eyes of the other countries. They aren't going to change just because Fereldan does. At most it weakens Fereldan because it causes internal turmoil.

Arl thing with Redcliff and arl eamon is only relevant for Fereldan. He has not influence beyound that. And Conner loses his title the moment he is taken to the circle, at most he was granted a little easier life their do to having parents that can bribe their way through.

[AlexanderCousland]

Uh. The Chantry blew up, Anders blew it up.
As Far as Im concerned they could have made DA2 into a movie rather then a game.
As i have said before, Mages or Templars, Templars still win the city. A few mages still escape.
Sure, Kirkwall influences Asunder, however Kirkwall isnt THEE event that made Asunder happen, If anything that had more to do with Cumberland, Wynne, Cole, and Rhys. My point is, the Llomeryn Accords were not broken solely because of Kirkwall.

Fereldan and the Blight has an effect on Orlais politically. It has an effect on Kirkwall and the Free Marches because of the Refugee's.

[sea-]

The Darkspawn were one of the vaguely mysterious and interesting things in Dragon Age, specifically how they tied in with the Chant of Light, the Black City, etc. You know, it could have actually been cool if the first game had had a storyline that revolved around that, instead of... well, nothing.