854 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
where does that run anyway.  The map only labels the path between Ostagar and Lothering as the Imperial a highway but that seems wrong.

I think, and this is totally a guess, that the cream colored road is ALL the imperial highway.  The name is repeated within the territory of Tevinter, Orlais, and even in the Free Marches (specifically it connects to Cumberland).  There isn't a single other path on the map with a name on it.  My guess is its very, very old.  Probably a remnant of the Tevinter Imperium, like Ostagar, rather than an Orlesian highway.

that makes sense.

[Herr Uhl]

Lord Aesir wrote...

DarkSpiral wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
where does that run anyway.  The map only labels the path between Ostagar and Lothering as the Imperial a highway but that seems wrong.

I think, and this is totally a guess, that the cream colored road is ALL the imperial highway.  The name is repeated within the territory of Tevinter, Orlais, and even in the Free Marches (specifically it connects to Cumberland).  There isn't a single other path on the map with a name on it.  My guess is its very, very old.  Probably a remnant of the Tevinter Imperium, like Ostagar, rather than an Orlesian highway.

that makes sense.

It was built by Tevinter, and they almost managed to build a bridge over the Waking Sea. Which is pretty damn impressive.

(look between Val-Royeaux and Lydes)

[Heimdall]

Nizaris1 wrote...
I am not a student of history, but as far as i know, 100 years ago America is not a super power, involve in civil war. Long before that there are wars between British, Spain and France. And before that war with the natives. There are blood on American soil since Columbus land there....

But America never fall, since these past 100 years no one ever set foot on American soil, i mean American enemies (not illegal immigrants), it is because American army is powerful, the most powerful on earth now i can say. Who dare to challenge America? Oh yes Pearl harbor maybe, the one and only failure of American army, but Japan only manage to do air strike, they never sent army on foot.

100 years ago America fought in very few wars and nobody has managed to set foot there because nobody tried to invade.  Why is any of this relevant?  Unlike America, Ferelden fought both a civil war and a war against an invader at the same time.  Vast swathes of its land, including farmland, were destroyed by both wars.  That has never happened to America.

If look at American civil war, i think that is the same like Ferelden civil war, it didn't weaken America at all, so why should it weaken Ferelden? Even general Cornwallis failed to conquer America. America grow stronger and stronger...just imagine how many American died in wars these past 100 years? Who America didn't mess with?

The civil war was devestasting for America, including massive population losses and a huge blow to the Southern economy.  It took decades to recover.  Cornwallis was a century before that and he wasn't fighting "America" he was fighting rebellious colonists he was meant to pacify.  Again, how is this relevant?

Anybody can be a soldier, just give 15 year old kid with gun, there you got your soldier....

And so, there is no reason why Ferelden cannot be like America.

Something tells me Ferelden kings don't have the logic of African warlords usually.  A kid with a gun is a kid with a gun, not a soldier.  Besides, guns became so popular in part because they require much less training to use than older types of weaponry.  You can't give a kid a sword and expect him to fight effectively with it, that would require at least weeks and more likely months or years of training.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 09 décembre 2012 - 04:28 .

[The Elder King]

Nizaris1 wrote...

So you agree with me? The Dwarves will take no sides because they have economic interests in every nation.

What "war" are you talking about? Between Ferelden and an hypothetical enemy country? They didn't care when Orlais occupied Ferelden, I doubt they're going to care in the future.

No, i don't agree with you two. I said, to secure interest with ferelden, the dwarves in orzamar especially under Bhelen rule will side with Ferelden.

You're talking like the economical relationship that Orzammar has with humans (which is indeed greater with Blelen, according to the slides) is administered only by the Fereldan king. It's not. Merchant trades themselves with the dwarves, and for the dwarves there'd be no difference to trade with an Orlesian merchant or a Fereldan merchan (assuming that it's not already going to happen). Regardless, you're forgetting the little particular that dwarves are constantly in war with the darkspawn, with the exception of a few years maybe after the Blights. They don't have the resources to actively fight the darskpwan and send troops to aid Ferelden. They can during the Blight because the darskspawn flee on surface.
And in the end, in the epilogues slides it's said that Bhelen is more opoen to trade with humans, not to form a military alliance. You have no proof that Bhelen would help Ferelden. They didn't help the Tevinter during their numerous fights despite being long-time allies. They didn't help Ferelden during the Orlesian occupation. There's nothing that could make you claim that an alliance is likely to happen.

Again, look at American history...why should Red Indian care British, French and Spain killing each other? They care because they killing each other on their land. So Red Indians tribe take side. Some side with British, some side with french and so side with Spain.

Do you ever learn from history, do you know how people gain allies? Make dealings and contracts? Even towards enemies? those white people are the invaders but still red Indian take their side. Even today we can hear "Red indian that friendly to white men like Sioux, Mohiccan, Chyene..." and "non friendly to white like Mohawk and some others i don't know..."

Even in my own country, there are Malays who take side with British, Japan and Communists in WW2

Similar thing will happen in Ferelden.

Dalish have NO lands.They stay for some times in a forest/plain, and they leave after sometime. They're nomads. If they are in the Brecilan Forest, for the example, and Orlais invades Ferelden, they wouldn't care much about it. They would probably leave Ferelden to not be involved in the war.

Modifié par hhh89, 09 décembre 2012 - 04:35 .

[Heimdall]

Nizaris1 wrote...

No, i don't agree with you two. I said, to secure interest with ferelden, the dwarves in orzamar especially under Bhelen rule will side with Ferelden.

What about their interests in Orlais?

Again, look at American history...why should Red Indian care British, French and Spain killing each other? They care because they killing each other on their land. So Red Indians tribe take side. Some side with British, some side with french and so side with Spain.

There's a key distinction here.  The Dalish have no land.  They don't want any part in human wars and its a simple matter for them to simply leave.  As for the Dalish boon, all you demonstrated is that the Dalish are just as likely to side with the Orlesians as the Ferelden's were the former to invade.

Do you ever learn from history, do you know how people gain allies? Make dealings and contracts (and bribes)? Even towards enemies? those white people are the invaders but still red Indian take their side. Even today we can hear "Red indian that friendly to white men like Sioux, Mohiccan, Chyene..." and "non friendly to white like Mohawk and some others i don't know..."

Please stop.  It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about, stop trying to make Native American parallels.  Their situations are not similar.  There were native Americans that allied with Europeans, there were Native Americans that were wiped out by Europeans, and there were many whom played the Europeans against each other for their own security.  All of which is irrelevant since their situation was entirely different.  The Europeans wanted their land.  The Dalish have their land guaranteed or have no land at all

Even in my own country, there are Malays who take side with British, Japan and Communists in WW2

Similar thing will happen in Ferelden and Thedas

I'm not familiar with the history of Malaysia but you've got it all wrong.  The Dalish are not being invaded.  Ferelden, of which the Dalish are not a part, is being invaded.  That is an entirely different situation.  Ferelden's and Orlesians fighting on Ferelden land is not the same as the British and French fighting over North American territory.  The dałish have no reason to get involved and no incentive to help Ferelden any more than they have to help Orlais.

[Aulis Vaara]

David Gaider wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...
So, bye-bye DA...you lost one customer...

There's a lot of presumptions in your posts regarding what can and cannot be. Mostly what you're talking about is a backstory, which DA does have. If you truly believe that the series should be about one thing and one thing only, and we are not focusing on that enough (despite not truly knowing what DA3 will be about)... then fair enough! Hopefully you'll see something in DA3 to interest you when we reveal more of it, but if not then it's great you enjoyed the one game.

I'm in the same boat. While the Templars vs Mages was a nice element of the setting in Origins, I really only care about the mythology of Thedas: what the truth behind it all is. I couldn't care less about who decides to declare war on who, even more so given the frustration one feels when people aren't tackling the real problems of their world (i.e. the darkspawn).

I have less and less the impression that Dragon Age is going to give me any big answers. Unfortunate, but so be it.

[AlexanderCousland]

@Pyzkozis

That was awfully long response that was hardly based on any type of facts, You certainly have a flair for the dramatic, I'll give you that.

Fereldan had a blight, leaving Fereldan with casualties. Yes.

However, I cant argue with your Imagination, you seem firm in your belief that the "sky is falling" in Ferelden, and the nation can never prosperous or make strides because of the blight. Also, your dwarf must not have chosen a capable ruler at the end of his playthrough, cause you dont have seem to have courage in whoever you picked. I wont debate Trade, or Economics, because frankly nobody really know's.

However, I will keep "parroting the book" as someone once told me, I'll follow what Dev's have written about the future of my Warden & Hawke's homeland.

Also, If you wish to quote partial statement's, Im done with you.
I'll not have someone pick and choose pieces of my sentence and debate with them as if I actually said, what he/she makes it seem like i said.

If i wrote " The Hero of Orlais is incredibly mean, however she shows strong leadership and she is aslo very attractive"

And you quote me " The Hero of Orlais is incredibly mean"

And respond as if thats the only thing i've said, and put your own context on statement. Yea, were done here. You can have the last word if you wish.

[Heimdall]

@Freshlstay

I'm not sure you understand that we're not disagreeing with dev statement that Ferelden will become a nation of influence. We've said several times that we see it happening. We just think that this can't be any time soon given Ferelden's present state. I'm not sure why you're so convinced of this happening soon. There's not dev statement to that effect,

[AlexanderCousland]

@Lord Aesir.

Im not debating, "how soon's". Im just saying it will be. How soon is not up to me.

@Lord Aesir & Dark Spiral.

The Map im looking at, (yes from the book, lol) shows the Imperial highway running from Tevinter down thru Nevarra, and Orlais and across to Fereldan.

[Heimdall]

FreshIstay wrote...

@Lord Aesir.

Im not debating, "how soon's". Im just saying it will be. How soon is not up to me.

@Lord Aesir & Dark Spiral.

The Map im looking at, (yes from the book, lol) shows the Imperial highway running from Tevinter down thru Nevarra, and Orlais and across to Fereldan.

Then why are we arguing.  It doesn't seem we actually disagree.

[AlexanderCousland]

@Lord Aesir

Lol. It doesnt seem the we do.

Maybe, It's because our Imagination's are in different places in regards to Fereldan.

[DarkSpiral]

Herr Uhl wrote...

It was built by Tevinter, and they almost managed to build a bridge over the Waking Sea. Which is pretty damn impressive.

(look between Val-Royeaux and Lydes)

Oh, nice catch.  I wonder if ti was finished at one point and then destroyed.  That bride would have sped up travel a great deal.  Including army travel.

[upsettingshorts]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I am not a student of history, but as far as i know, 100 years ago America is not a super power, involve in civil war.

In 1912 the United States was generally considered "the Great Neutral" and had recently beaten the crap out of a weak Spanish Empire.  It was about 50 years out of its own Civil War.

The government still took George Washington's Farewell Address seriously back then.

Nizaris1 wrote...

But America never fall, since these past 100 years no one ever set foot on American soil, i mean American enemies (not illegal immigrants), it is because American army is powerful, the most powerful on earth now i can say. Who dare to challenge America? Oh yes Pearl harbor maybe, the one and only failure of American army, but Japan only manage to do air strike, they never sent army on foot.

Look into the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.  They're kind of a big deal.  Let's just say you're leaving out a ton of "American army" failures, not only in World War II, but many other wars before and since.

Nizaris1 wrote...

If look at American civil war, i think that is the same like Ferelden civil war, it didn't weaken America at all, so why should it weaken Ferelden?

*spit take*

Clearly it is time for the new Whigs Republicans in the Bannorn to leverage the fact half the country has no political power to begin a huge program of railroad expansion in Ferelden eh?

Nizaris1 wrote...

Even general Cornwallis failed to conquer America. America grow stronger and stronger...just imagine how many American died in wars these past 100 years? Who America didn't mess with?

What... are you even talking about here?  What's your point?  General Cornwallis wasn't even the commander of the British forces in North America, nor was he trying to conquer the Thirteen Colonies.  

Nizaris1 wrote...

Anybody can be a soldier, just give 15 year old kid with gun, there you got your soldier....

Worked great in Sierra Leone!

Nizaris1 wrote...

And so, there is no reason why Ferelden cannot be like America.

I can think of limitless reasons.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2012 - 07:50 .

[upsettingshorts]

Nizaris1 wrote...

No, i don't agree with you two. I said, to secure interest with ferelden, the dwarves in orzamar especially under Bhelen rule will side with Ferelden.

If we're going to use American history as a guide, for some reason I don't know why but hey you brought it up, this very question came up almost immediately after the Revolution.

Revolutionary France, an ideological (!) and treaty (!!) ally of the new American republic was expecting the United States to side with them in their eventual war with Great Britain, the former colonial masters of the Thirteen Colonies.  Or, at the very least, not trade with them.  The Democratic-Republicans led by Thomas Jefferson endorsed this point of view and thought all republican governments should stand together.

George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, and the Federalists disagreed.  They said that trade agreements should take precedence over ideological ones, and that alliances with other nations will lead them into wars from which they stood to gain nothing to benefit other parties.  They viewed the economic links with Great Britain and her empire as far more valuable to the new country than sharing in France's revolutionary struggle.

The French were so upset with this - the Federalists were in charge - that it led to the Quasi War between France and the United States.  

What does Orzammar stand to gain by siding with Ferelden over Orlais?  As long as Orlais can promise greater or equal relations with the dwarves, why would Orzammar side with either?  

Nizaris1 wrote...

Again, look at American history...why should Red Indian care British, French and Spain killing each other? They care because they killing each other on their land. So Red Indians tribe take side. Some side with British, some side with french and so side with Spain.

They sided with the French at first because the French treated them better.  Then they sided with the British because they knew Americans would treat them worse.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2012 - 07:39 .

[Rorschachinstein]

oh good I'm in the mood for a history lesson

[upsettingshorts]

Rorschachinstein wrote...

oh good I'm in the mood for a history lesson

Blame Nizaris.  

If we're gonna flood a thread with off topic history rants, they ought to be actual lessons and not misinformation.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2012 - 07:47 .

[addiction21]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I am not a student of history,

Then please stop trying to use history to back you up. Ignorance is not a valid argument or a shield to making ignorant comparisons between the real world and a fictional world.

[Herr Uhl]

 On a sidenote, the current topic reminded me of this thread.

[LinksOcarina]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Rorschachinstein wrote...

oh good I'm in the mood for a history lesson

Blame Nizaris.  

If we're gonna flood a thread with off topic history rants, they ought to be actual lessons and not misinformation.

You should let me lecture you then, I have my masters degree in Historic studies. 

[DarkSpiral]

LinksOcarina wrote...

You should let me lecture you then, I have my masters degree in Historic studies. 

Er...okay? 

Proceed, I suppose?

[LinksOcarina]

DarkSpiral wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

You should let me lecture you then, I have my masters degree in Historic studies. 

Er...okay? 

Proceed, I suppose?

lol.

You don't need me to point out the fallacies of Naz' arguments. Mainly because most of it is based on conjecture and presuming facts are truth, or as we call them, positivist research.

If I really wanted to I can write a small report countering all of those arguments but im tired and enjoying myself tonight. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 09 décembre 2012 - 11:39 .

[upsettingshorts]

LinksOcarina wrote...

You should let me lecture you then, I have my masters degree in Historic studies. 

That's what I'm working on.  In any case, I'm not sure how any of this is relevant.

(It's not)

LinksOcarina wrote...

If I really wanted to I can write a small report countering all of those arguments but im tired and enjoying myself tonight. 

Pretty much.  As such my responses are more than a little simplified.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 décembre 2012 - 11:42 .

[LinksOcarina]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

You should let me lecture you then, I have my masters degree in Historic studies. 

That's what I'm working on.  In any case, I'm not sure how any of this is relevant.

(It's not)

LinksOcarina wrote...

If I really wanted to I can write a small report countering all of those arguments but im tired and enjoying myself tonight. 

Pretty much.  As such my responses are more than a little simplified.  

Haha, I know its not relevent, i'm just having some fun right now with this. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 09 décembre 2012 - 11:44 .