854 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

Nizaris1 wrote...

But the point is, out of many wars in America, it didn't weaken America at all, but America become even stronger.

While the truth of this statement is dubious at best, the wars from which the United States emerged stronger than before are due to circumstances that are not replicable in Ferelden, or took place on a scale that never had much chance of impacting domestic growth.

For example, one of the main - and obvious - reasons the U.S. came out of World War II in such a position was the afforementioned fact that they were seperated from the front lines by two massive oceans.  That's putting aside the fact it was wildly ahead in industrial capacity before the conflict even began, something Ferelden cannot come close to matching.

Ferelden's wars took place on its own soil, killed its own people, compromised its own institutions, and damaged its own infrastructure.  The rest of Thedas was utterly and completely unaffected.  The situations are quite literally reversed!  Can you not see this?  

Likewise, in any future potential conflict with other nations, geography will not protect them.

Nizaris1 wrote...

And second point, trade/economy can be a factor for choosing side.

One which we have no data whatsoever with which to determine with anything resembling confidence how it would impact anyone's decisionmaking.  

Nizaris1 wrote...

Third point, the natives will choose side via agreement, diplomacy, bribery with the invaders/enemy

This is a nonargument.  Indigenous populations unaffiliated with the political structure of Ferelden can side with whomever they want for whatever reasons they want, or side with no-one at all.  So it's hardly evidence of their leaning towards any potential combatant.

Nizaris1 wrote...

With these points, Ferelden can be similar with America in many ways. I don't see why Ferelden cannot be a super country after the 5th Blight.

Well, first of all, do you have any idea how tiny Ferelden is?  It's roughly the size of Illinois, give or take.  What about population?  Did you play the same Dragon Age: Origins that witnessed the Blight cutting a huge swath of destruction through Lothering, the Bannorn, and Denerim?  

Nizaris1 wrote...

Darkspawn not even a great threat for Ferelden

Dragon Age: Awakenings emphatically demonstrates otherwise.

Nizaris1 wrote...

, they manage to defeat them before the blight truly happen.

Which nearly everyone acknowledges is a fluke to such an extent that it was considered wholly unbelievable.  Furthermore, they did not defeat it behind Ferelden's tremendous force of arms - which is what you're implicitly claiming - but a once in a lifetime alliance of elves, dwarves, mages/templars and men united against a common enemy by treaty obligations to a third party.  None of which has any reason to last after the situation ended.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:00 .

[upsettingshorts]

Nizaris1 wrote...

No matter if US Army killed in America or killed in Iraq, it means they got killed. So what the hell difference it make?

We're talking about Iraq now?  

It matters a lot.  Ask the Iraqis.

It's disturbing that you think soldiers are limitless or easily replaceable.  A cursory examination of the effects of World War I would dispossess you of most of your assumptions.

Nizaris1 wrote...

America prove that millions of American died, their army become stronger and stronger

Putting aside the fact that there are no facts in your statement....

Nizaris' plan for Ferelden:  Militarize the society, conscript everyone.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Nizaris1 wrote...

No matter if US Army killed in America or killed in Iraq, it means they got killed. So what the hell difference it make?

Ferelden's wars took place on its own soil, killed its own people,
compromised its own institutions, and damaged its own infrastructure.
 The rest of Thedas was utterly and completely unaffected.  The
situations are quite literally reversed!  Can you not see this?

It's not only about number of soldiers killed. War tends to cause this thing called collateral damage.

[upsettingshorts]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Do you know how big Israel is? Why 50 Muslim countries can't even touch Israel?

Technology does, and Ferelden does not have a technological advantage over Thedas.

The Qunari do.

Nizaris1 wrote...

Size doesn't matter

You're the one talking about how Ferelden can simply muster countless soldiers.

Nizaris1 wrote...

No matter how big or small Ferelden is, does not prevent Ferelden to become super power in Thedas, especially in magical world of Thedas...Ferelden have talking and walking trees....

Now the Poet Tree is going to join this army of yours?  The guy just wanted his acorn!  What could war possibly offer it?  Are you trolling?

Nizaris1 wrote...

look at Japan, after two atomic bombs, Japan grow even stronger...

Tell me, how much do you know about Postwar Japan?

(Hint:  This is, by far, the least coherent argument you've offered so far.  That's saying something.)

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:10 .

[Pzykozis]

Nizaris1 wrote...

No matter if US Army killed in America or killed in Iraq, it means they got killed. So what the hell difference it make?

There are a lot of US Army killed everywhere in the world, but doesn't it weakened America? America always have soldiers.

And so similar with Ferelden, you guys argument is "Ferelden have no army because they being destroyed or weakened by the Blight and Civil War"

America prove that millions of American died, their army become stronger and stronger

Because when you fight a war on your own soil the country itself is damaged, a military doesn't exist in a vacuum it generally has a fairly vast and complex support structure behind it.

[MelRedux]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Well, first of all, do you have any idea how tiny Ferelden is? It's roughly the size of Illinois, give or take. What about population? Did you play the same Dragon Age: Origins that witnessed the Blight cutting a huge swath of destruction through Lothering, the Bannorn, and Denerim?

Do you know how big Israel is? Why 50 Muslim countries can't even touch Israel?

Size doesn't matter

No matter how big or small Ferelden is, does not prevent Ferelden to become super power in Thedas, especially in magical world of Thedas...Ferelden have talking and walking trees....

I want to know why you think Ferelden can become a super power when it is seen as a country of uncivilized barbarians that smell like dogs by the rest of Thedas.  Ferelden is the laughing stock of Thedas.

[DarkSpiral]

........America uses smart drones, missiles, and other forms of highly advanced technology. It also has thousands of times the popultion, being a First World country,

Ferelden is on the the same tech scale as the rest of Thedas, and is incredibly small in comparison to its closest neighbor, Orlais. Its like England (not Great Britain, JUST England) taking on the USA.

[upsettingshorts]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Similar with how Britain become super power while the Romans called Britons as "uncivilized barbarians" and laughing stock in Roman era...because there is nothing in Brittania...

I'm willing to entertain the idea that Ferelden could become a superpower if you give them a thousand years, sure.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I want to know why you think Ferelden can become a super power when it is seen as a country of uncivilized barbarians that smell like dogs by the rest of Thedas. Ferelden is the laughing stock of Thedas.

Similar with how Britain become super power while the Romans called Britons as "uncivilized barbarians" and laughing stock in Roman era...because there is nothing in Brittania...

So you're defending a hypothetical future for Ferelden that is so far in the future from the time in history we've been playing in... why, exactly?

[MelRedux]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I want to know why you think Ferelden can become a super power when it is seen as a country of uncivilized barbarians that smell like dogs by the rest of Thedas. Ferelden is the laughing stock of Thedas.

Similar with how Britain become super power while the Romans called Britons as "uncivilized barbarians" and laughing stock in Roman era...because there is nothing in Brittania...

The Britons were conquered by the Romans, so................... 

Modifié par Mel_Redux, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:16 .

[upsettingshorts]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Arabs, before Islam are barbarians, live in desert, laughing stock of civilized Persian and Byzantium, there is nothing in Arabia, and the Arab tribes killing each other even over a camel...

But after Islam...Arabs become the super power in Medieval Era...

So why Ferelden can't?

Why can't this entirely different scenario in this entirely different place in this entirely different time with these entirely different people replicate itself here?

Because it's entirely different.  That's why.

Ferelden has disadvantages you are ignoring, and none of the advantages any of these historic examples you're presenting possess. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:20 .

[In Exile]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Which nearly everyone acknowledges is a fluke to such an extent that it was considered wholly unbelievable.  Furthermore, they did not defeat it behind Ferelden's tremendous force of arms - which is what you're implicitly claiming - but a once in a lifetime alliance of elves, dwarves, mages/templars and men united against a common enemy by treaty obligations to a third party.  None of which has any reason to last after the situation ended.

That's not actually true. They killed it because a Grey Warden was there to kill the archdemon. All of Thedas combined can't beat a Blight without their system. Armies are litterally just meat shields, and the Warden had a good enough one (and was lucky enough) that he/she beat the blight.

[upsettingshorts]

I know this, but Grey Wardens aren't Ferelden and Fereldens aren't Grey Wardens. The point being raised in context was that Ferelden was itself capable of defeating a Blight with its own resources. That's not true, and that was my point.  

A Grey Warden was present - though unique circumstances including said alliances - and that Warden did his or her job. It was not the great armies of Ferelden that defeated the Blight.  

As such, Ferelden's relative success against the 5th Blight can't be used as evidence of its ability to engage with another nation in conventional war.  If anything, it counts against their chances as an example.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:27 .

[LinksOcarina]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I want to know why you think Ferelden can become a super power when it is seen as a country of uncivilized barbarians that smell like dogs by the rest of Thedas. Ferelden is the laughing stock of Thedas.

Similar with how Britain become super power while the Romans called Britons as "uncivilized barbarians" and laughing stock in Roman era...because there is nothing in Brittania...

Britian didn't become a power at all.

It was the Normans that did that because they were the eventual barbarian group that would become the primary power in Britian. They were a sort of viking group by all accounts that conquered what we know as Great Britian today, including the Irish, Scots and Welsh. 

The Roman occupation in Britian dealt with the Celts mostly, who were subsequently conquered in time. Those who remained did become "English" in a sense, but were in many ways a weak nation at that time becuase of the fracturing Roman empire. 

And it also took a long time before Britian even became what it is today. The typical date for the fall of Rome was around 476 (which is a misnomer because technically Rome never "fell" in that sort of romantic vein everyone thinks it did), William the Conquerer took control of England at around 1066.

That is 700 years almost in between. And William didn't even have full control until 1072. England as a power only became one after the Hundred Years War, which ended in 1453. After the English failed to take most of France, their military might was finally large enough to be a super power in the post medieval period, leading to rapid expansion overseas and a world superpower during the age of exploration and discovery, the end of the 14th century onward.

So from the Roman "collapse" of 476, to the beginnings of military dominance in the early 15th century, you had nearly 1000 years pass before England would be remotely a major player. And it wasn't even the native British that did it, but a group of Vikings who had more in common with Norway than England which jumpstarted their rise. So no, you are simply incorrect in your assertions. 

And no, it has little, if anything, to do with Ferelden. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:28 .

[Plaintiff]

 I'm not sure the Darkspawn are still relevant to this thread, let alone the actual DA franchise.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:28 .

[DarkSpiral]

In Exile wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Which nearly everyone acknowledges is a fluke to such an extent that it was considered wholly unbelievable.  Furthermore, they did not defeat it behind Ferelden's tremendous force of arms - which is what you're implicitly claiming - but a once in a lifetime alliance of elves, dwarves, mages/templars and men united against a common enemy by treaty obligations to a third party.  None of which has any reason to last after the situation ended.

That's not actually true. They killed it because a Grey Warden was there to kill the archdemon. All of Thedas combined can't beat a Blight without their system. Armies are litterally just meat shields, and the Warden had a good enough one (and was lucky enough) that he/she beat the blight.

Wasn't that implicit in the statement, Exile?  The Warden treaties were the onyl reason the Dwarves and Dalish (or werewolves) got involved at all.  So there had to be a Warden in the first place.

[upsettingshorts]

If Alistair turns out to be Thedas' Muhammed, creates his own religion, then he and his followers succeed in converting all of Ferelden and several other nearby states, then within a hundred years or so unites them under the Caliphate then why not, anything is possible in Nizarisland.

Nizaris1 wrote...

Britian didn't become a power at all.

Tell that to Commonwealth countries...

You clearly didn't read his post.  Are you trying to insult him with this reply?  Because I sure as hell would be insulted by it.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:34 .