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Are Darkspawn Still Relevant?


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#851
DarkSpiral

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...

Pardon, but, I don't ever recall seeing any Thread Posts, Tweets, or 'Con Panels where David, Sheryl, or any of the other writers confirmed that Loghain's betrayal at Ostagar was not something he plotted in advance.


Then you haven't been looking in the right places.

It's been said by David Gaider years ago that Loghain had planned a tactical retreat in the event that the battle would be a failure -- as any good general will do -- but never wanted to abandon Cailan.

It's been said by David Gaider that Loghain kept urging Cailan to stay off the front lines -- which we see in-game -- and was never intent on leaving him, though he did acknowledge to himself that he might have to do that if it came down to it.

It was only when Ostagar showed itself to be a failure that he knew he had to leave Cailan to die -- something that pained him to do if you bring it up in the Landsmeet.


I'm glad I leanred this now.  My current playthrough ( a mage) is going to save Loghain for the Joining anyway.  Now, knowing this, my highly intelligent and ducated Ambrosius is going to take this into account.  RP for the win? :happy:

Even if this managed to completely elude me, the player, for the past 4 years. ^_^

#852
bleetman

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glenboy24 wrote...

@The Ethereal: This might sound like I'm trying to deflect, but I want a link to that Thread with Gaider's quote or I'm still not buying it (that or if Mr. Gaider has the time to jump on here and confirm...) Don't get me wrong, you've made great points in regards to Military Psychology but the events of Stolen Throne, Return to Ostagar, Various Codex Entries, *and* the dialogue of the characters in Origins seems to counter what your Gaider Quote (sans "Gaider" pointing out that Loghain was likely planning on Betraying Cailain due to the reasons I mentioned, just not right then at Ostagar), and your own stance, indicate.

Not that I have them all to hand, but here you go.

Direct linking seems a bit buggered, so just scroll on down past that mountain of text OP.

Modifié par bleetman, 10 décembre 2012 - 08:17 .


#853
DarkSpiral

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bleetman wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...

@The Ethereal: This might sound like I'm trying to deflect, but I want a link to that Thread with Gaider's quote or I'm still not buying it (that or if Mr. Gaider has the time to jump on here and confirm...) Don't get me wrong, you've made great points in regards to Military Psychology but the events of Stolen Throne, Return to Ostagar, Various Codex Entries, *and* the dialogue of the characters in Origins seems to counter what your Gaider Quote (sans "Gaider" pointing out that Loghain was likely planning on Betraying Cailain due to the reasons I mentioned, just not right then at Ostagar), and your own stance, indicate.

Not that I have them all to hand, but here you go.

Direct linking seems a bit buggered, so just scroll on down past that mountain of text OP.


I'll keep that.  Thanks glenboy24.

Aaand that hammer home the last nail in the coffin of my previous take on Loghain.  Sure I knew the writers were military people, but I didn't realize the extenet to which execution had failed intent.  Oh well.  I owe someone (some riends of mine) an apology, because they first time they ever played through Ostagar, THEY were screaming at the insanity of the plan.  Guess they were more or less correct.

#854
AlexanderCousland

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@Dark Spiral

The Lohgain thing eluded me for a while as well, about 2 years, and the ability to marry Anora.
It's really great stuff, considering, I didnt read the Stolen Throne until after I had read the same quotes that were linked. After that, I had a greater appreciation for his character. Also, a little bit better understanding of the Game as a whole, The Calling shed's light as well. The Wiki just doesnt tell the whole story, and rightly so. Im not trying to insinuate that you havent read the books, Just sharing my experiemce.

#855
Guest_Nizaris1_*

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@The Ethereal Writer Redux

Wow...tldr but interesting...

But actually for me, Ostagar is a failure of EVERYONE, not just Cailan, Duncan, Loghain, everyone including the Chantry

Remember that Mges can turn tide of this war, but Chantry only allow 7 mages to Ostagar and one of them is a Tranquil. Remember that 3 mages doing thiongs we are not allowed to know what they are doing because Templars don't let us in...they only told that the Mages are going into the Fade, what are they doing in the Fade? We never know, and no one know..So, what is this "Mages going into the Fade" is for?

The Grand Cleric sent Alistair the Chantry boy to harass a mage....in the middle of everybody is going to war and maybe die, she do that.

Cailan is deluded by Grey Warden legend, but not forget that EVERYONE deluded by Loghain legend. Even the Grey Warden. Everybody think "because of Loghain is here, we will win, nothing to worry about", even Alistair tell us that.

The whole army is not organized, just look at the army camp, there is a prisoner who don't eat, meaning no one even care for that prisoner, that prisoner is doomed in his cage. If the warden don't find a way to give him food, the prisoner just die starving rather than die in battle.

The cleric giving preaching here and there, while the soldiers need to make preparations, training, briefing, and so on...only archers are doing training. Not to mention that the King himself having fun with soldiers, drinking and Loghain don't care for anything, not even want to talk. The battle happen in the night, but on the day, everybody jut doing things whatever they want to do....

They didn't wait for scouts to report, providing if you play as Cousland, where is Fergus? maybe they just considered dead in the wilds, but they just sent scouts without any back up followers? What kind of scouting is that? And scouts should not engage enemies, scouts just scoutings, but the Ash Warrrior told you they lost many dogs already because engaging the Darkspawn. loghain also changing orders many times making Ash Warriors mad

Loghain do not know Darkspawns are in the tower is illogical, he have his men there, and when we arrive in the tower, the Darkspawn are already feasting, making decoration, laying traps, have a party....Loghain who ordered the tower is inaccesible because of the underground chamber...so it means the failure to report by Loghain men. Indiscipline of the soldiers

So, when everything mixed up, in the meeting time, we can see a brief on how unorganized the army of Ostagar is...that is the result of the failure of everyone in Ostagar...Grey Warden, Duncan, Cailan, Loghain, Chantry, scouts, soldiers...everyone...the meeting is useless....

To add, the meeting supposed to be with all, not just Loghain, cailan, duncan, uldred and grand Cleric....wheres the Captain, sergeants, Ash Warrior leader, Templar...? funnily the Warden who is just fainted in the Joining who know nothing get the previlage being in the meeting and contribute nothing to the meeting....

Modifié par Nizaris1, 10 décembre 2012 - 09:16 .