854 réponses à ce sujet

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This franchise was built on the Grey Warden/Darkspawn mythos.

The thing is, I suspect that there'd be people that say that the franchise is built on the Mage-Templar War if it happened to be in the first game.

I like the idea of touching on other aspects of the setting, since so much time was put into developing it.

Allan, I like to think of Dragon Age as a setting capable of supporting many different ideas and storylines. Were it strictly centered on just the Grey Warden mythos or the Mage-Templar War it would eventually get quite stale. I like what the writers and devs are doing with the world of Thedas and I hope they keep up the good work. I look forward to many new and exciting games for years to come!

[SpunkyMonkey]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Pzykozis wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

The Darkspawn are a one-trick pony, and the less focus on them the better. Unless more moral ambiguity can be introduced to make the interesting, I'd be happy to see them disappear from the narrative forever.

I think there was quite a lot which could be done with talking Darkspawn and the Architect, and the Darkspawn could in fact be the route needed to allow players into the Black City.

"One Trick Pony" just shows a lack of imagination for me, there's still plenty of milage left in there with them IMO.

Bit hard for talking darkspawn to come about when both The Mother and The Architect are dead. I do remember stabbing him repeatedly, though I guess that's never stopped someone coming back later on.

Actually bringing talking Darkspawn is pretty easy.  They just have to have a surviving disciple of the Architect that knows the ritual.

Spot on, as I said earlier in my post, lack of imagination. It really isn't that hard to imagine The Architect has an apprentice of sorts is it?

[Pzykozis]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Pzykozis wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

The Darkspawn are a one-trick pony, and the less focus on them the better. Unless more moral ambiguity can be introduced to make the interesting, I'd be happy to see them disappear from the narrative forever.

I think there was quite a lot which could be done with talking Darkspawn and the Architect, and the Darkspawn could in fact be the route needed to allow players into the Black City.

"One Trick Pony" just shows a lack of imagination for me, there's still plenty of milage left in there with them IMO.

Bit hard for talking darkspawn to come about when both The Mother and The Architect are dead. I do remember stabbing him repeatedly, though I guess that's never stopped someone coming back later on.

Actually bringing talking Darkspawn is pretty easy.  They just have to have a surviving disciple of the Architect that knows the ritual.

Spot on, as I said earlier in my post, lack of imagination. It really isn't that hard to imagine The Architect has an apprentice of sorts is it?

Yes? He's both in the books and the game and his only companion mentioned in all of this was Utha and shes suffering from a mild case of the dead. It's less lack of imagination and hope that we don't just start pulling random plot threads out of the air and saying but they were there all along!

Cory might suffice in a similar role though and since he doesn't appear to be dead y'know.

[ScotGaymer]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Since before Dragon Age was even released the Devs and writers have insisted that the DA series was going to be about the Universe and not the Darkspawn. It has been said over and over and over. And just because some of you would have it otherwise does NOT make it fact.
Sorry folks but what the Devs say trumps your headcanon.

Devs say Dragon Age is not about Grey Warden and Darkspawn but about the universe is like Gorge Lucas saying to the fans of Star Wars that Star Wars is not about Jedi and the Sith but the universe, the Jedis and the Sith are just 'a part of it", the fans for the whole world will sent death threat letters and emails to Gorge Lucas

The beginning of DA story arc is about Grey Warden and the Blight, Duncan intro "The Chantry teach us that the hubris of men...bla bla bla...Tevinter mages tainting the Black City  bla bla bla...they become THE FIRST DARKSPAWN....bla bla bla then THE GREY WARDEN SAVE THE DAY...bla bla bla...but EVERYONE FORGOT US"....then suddenly "it is not about them, they are just a part of it", what is that? Or they already run out of ideas to expand the theme and thus creating new stories?

And then DA promotion..."JOIN US!"...based on Alistair quote "Join us in the shadow where we stand vigilant bla bla bla", everywhere in DA promotion...on trailers "bla bla bla...that is what it meant to be a GREY WARDEN!".....then suddenly "it is not about them, they are just a part of it"

Invalid comparison.

And you are just wrong. Sorry but you are.

The Grey Warden Order, and the Darkspawn are important plot integral parts of Dragon Age to be sure but they do not, as I already said, form the underpinning premise of the universe.

The Wardens and Darkspawn are akin to The Rebellion/New Republic and The Empire to use your star wars analogy, not akin to the Jedi and Sith.
The universe is not affected negatively by having a game that instead focuses on The Old Republic and The Sith Empire, or focusses on the more personal story of Kyle Katarn and the new Jedi Order; similarly the DA universe is not suddenly ruined by the Wardens/Darkspawn being more in the back ground.

A plot element does not equal a central theme. They are absolutely not the same thing.

Just because your headcanon would have it be otherwise (an exceptionally arrogant point of view by the way) does not mean that the what the devs say regarding the central theme of the games and universe (and have ALWAYS said) is untrue.
Again I am sorry to say this but Word of God (Devs) trumps your headcanon.

And if you think that the games were always about the wardens/darkspawn (in spite of the devs having never supported that view point) and must always be about the wardens/darkspawn then these games and this universe is not for you, and has never been for you.
And you would be better off going to play something else, like Dark Souls or something. I don't know.

[Bernhardtbr]

But that begs the question of what is the central theme of Dragon Age. If it isn´t the Blight and Archdemon threat, there is none.

Or at least no original or interesting one. This isn´t Game of Thrones where there are several power struggles and interesting characters to back that up.

Modifié par Bernhardtbr, 28 novembre 2012 - 12:51 .

[Heimdall]

Pzykozis wrote...

Yes? He's both in the books and the game and his only companion mentioned in all of this was Utha and shes suffering from a mild case of the dead. It's less lack of imagination and hope that we don't just start pulling random plot threads out of the air and saying but they were there all along!

Cory might suffice in a similar role though and since he doesn't appear to be dead y'know.

We know he has disciples serving him, whom didn't exist at the time of the book btw, just because he doesn't follow at the Architect's heel doesn't make his existence unlikely.  It needn't have been an apprentice, it could just be a loyal Disciple that learned the ritual from the Architect's notes.  That isn't pulling a random plot thread out of the air, it makes a lot of sense.

[henkez3]

Bernhardtbr wrote...

But that begs the question of what is the central theme of Dragon Age. If it isn´t the Blight and Archdemon threat, there is none.

Or at least no original or interesting one. This isn´t Game of Thrones where there are several power struggles and interesting characters to back that up.

Kind of is like that though. Mage-templar war in Orlais, Tevinter-Qunari war, Starkhaven succession conflict. In the first example we have, presumably DA3's protagonist + the empress and the divine. Tevinter is very interesting all around and the Qunari may have a new Arishok in the form of Sten from DA:O. In Starkhaven we have Sebastian attempting to get his lands back and assume the office of Prince of Starkhaven.

This all just my opinion of course, maybe the rest of the DA universe simply doesn't interest you.

[Herr Uhl]

Bernhardtbr wrote...

But that begs the question of what is the central theme of Dragon Age. If it isn´t the Blight and Archdemon threat, there is none.

Or at least no original or interesting one. This isn´t Game of Thrones where there are several power struggles and interesting characters to back that up.

They've not had the chance to show the other characters. And the blight isn't that original nor interesting.

[BloodyTalon]

Think its more the threat of the old gods returning that will keep the darkspawn relevent.

There is a child with the soul of an old god out there if I recall now picturethat child being used to clean up the other old gods.

[The Hierophant]

Bernhardtbr wrote...

But that begs the question of what is the central theme of Dragon Age. If it isn´t the Blight and Archdemon threat, there is none.

Or at least no original or interesting one. This isn´t Game of Thrones where there are several power struggles and interesting characters to back that up.

I think the theme of the series might be the major events during the Dragon Age that greatly impact Thedas's history. (Think The Elder Scrolls, or Fallout series)

[Bernhardtbr]

Herr Uhl wrote...

They've not had the chance to show the other characters. And the blight isn't that original nor interesting.

Never said it was

The point is, unlike Game of Thrones where you can take the supernatural stuff (white walkers, Dragons etc) and still be left with interesting and strong characters, this simply isn´t the case so far with Dragon Age. It simply isn´t that well written. Origins was full of cliché, sure since there´s lots of people who like Bioware games here, people often overlook issues but the fact is that what made Origins great was the character interaction and the snarky remarks; the plot and most character plots (Morrigan and Flemeth, the betrayal in Human Noble origins and what happened after etc etc) were quite superficial. In my opinion, at least. 

Or maybe I´m just spoiled after watching the series, truth be said Skyrim and Witcher 2 aren´t that hot either (through W 2 mostly because the game is too damn short, the character material sure was there) 

Modifié par Bernhardtbr, 28 novembre 2012 - 03:05 .

[henkez3]

Nizaris1 wrote...

If Grey Warden and Darkspawn is not the main theme or core story, then DA is nothing.

DA is not strong enough to be self centered game like TES series. It is not open world game.

Mage-Templar conflict started not because of Anders blow up the Chantry, not because of Circle condition, not because of blood magic and Tevinter Imperium, but because of Mages are to be blamed to bring Darkspawn into the world. The one who fight Darkspawn are Grey Wardens. If Grey Warden and Darkspawn is just a part of it, insignificant in DA2 , DA3 and so on...then it is all LOST it sense.

Grey Warden can be anybody, even Mages, that make it a unique order than a Jedi. Bioware took a wrong path if toss this order away making them 'just a part of it"

What? There is no indication of that in-game, you're putting words into the mouths of the writers.

[Bail_Darilar]

I'd be happy if they had more relevance in DA3 than the stupid way they were added to DA2. Where the only reason you fought darkspawn was because you were in the Deep Roads or on the mountainside just because you came near a deep roads cave entrance.

[macrocarl]

Darkspawn themselves may or may not be relevant. Story-wise after Awakening for one reason or another they head way way down deep into the earth.
What I find interesting and would miss is the stories generated around having the Darkspawn around like clues to what the Golden City is and the old gods etc. So long as those plot points continue to develop I wouldn't miss the Darkspawn if they found another way to give us MOAR LOAR!

[Heimdall]

Nizaris1 wrote...
If Grey Warden and Darkspawn is not the main theme or core story, then DA is nothing.

DA is not strong enough to be self centered game like TES series. It is not open world game.

Mage-Templar conflict started not because of Anders blow up the Chantry, not because of Circle condition, not because of blood magic and Tevinter Imperium, but because of Mages are to be blamed to bring Darkspawn into the world. The one who fight Darkspawn are Grey Wardens. If Grey Warden and Darkspawn is just a part of it, insignificant in DA2 , DA3 and so on...then it is all LOST it sense.

Grey Warden can be anybody, even Mages, that make it a unique order than a Jedi. Bioware took a wrong path if toss this order away making them 'just a part of it"

Wat 

Mages are hated because the Tervinter Imperium spent centuries terrorizing non-mages and treating them as second class citizens to be used for blood magic rituals on a whim.  The Darkspawn are one point in a long list of why people dislike mages.  The Mage-Templar war started because mages were dissatisfied with their lot.  What game have you been playing?

[BubbleDncr]

macrocarl wrote...

Darkspawn themselves may or may not be relevant. Story-wise after Awakening for one reason or another they head way way down deep into the earth.
What I find interesting and would miss is the stories generated around having the Darkspawn around like clues to what the Golden City is and the old gods etc. So long as those plot points continue to develop I wouldn't miss the Darkspawn if they found another way to give us MOAR LOAR!

I feel like you can't truly solve the mage/templar conflict until the Chantry changes its views on magic.

Which they won't do until someone prooves them wrong about tevinter mages being the ones to corrupt the gold city.

And the only ones capable of doing that are these original darkspawn that are starting to show up...



The Darkspawn are an important key to finding out what's truly going on with all the different gods in Thedas. So they will always be relevent.

[Heimdall]

BubbleDncr wrote...

I feel like you can't truly solve the mage/templar conflict until the Chantry changes its views on magic.

Which they won't do until someone prooves them wrong about tevinter mages being the ones to corrupt the gold city.

And the only ones capable of doing that are these original darkspawn that are starting to show up...

The Darkspawn are an important key to finding out what's truly going on with all the different gods in Thedas. So they will always be relevent.

Um, actually the Divine has already been making moves for reformation regarding the treatment of mages before the war.  You overestimate how large a part the Darkspawn thing plays into Chantry policy as opposed to Tervinter abuses of power in general.

[BubbleDncr]

Lord Aesir wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

I feel like you can't truly solve the mage/templar conflict until the Chantry changes its views on magic.

Which they won't do until someone prooves them wrong about tevinter mages being the ones to corrupt the gold city.

And the only ones capable of doing that are these original darkspawn that are starting to show up...

The Darkspawn are an important key to finding out what's truly going on with all the different gods in Thedas. So they will always be relevent.

Um, actually the Divine has already been making moves for reformation regarding the treatment of mages before the war.  You overestimate how large a part the Darkspawn thing plays into Chantry policy as opposed to Tervinter abuses of power in general.

But if it were proven that the golden city was always black, like Corypheus was rambling about, that would tear the Chantry apart. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that the truth of the darkspawn is the only thing that can undo the Chantry - and the Chantry is pretty much the group that has problems with everyone.

That said, just because the Divine is making moves to reform treatment of mages doesn't mean the rest of the Chantry will follow her.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Wether or not the Golden City was always black, doesnt change the fact that it was the Magisters of Tevinter who went there, that brought back the Blight with them. So even if the mages didn't corrupt the City, they still brought the curse of the Darkspawn upon the world.

[Foolsfolly]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Bernhardtbr wrote...

But that begs the question of what is the central theme of Dragon Age. If it isn´t the Blight and Archdemon threat, there is none.

Or at least no original or interesting one. This isn´t Game of Thrones where there are several power struggles and interesting characters to back that up.

They've not had the chance to show the other characters. And the blight isn't that original nor interesting.

The Blight's not interesting?

What?

It's an unstoppable, unyeilding, uncaring force of destruction that will sweep all society under the rug and destroy all life in Thedas and beyond if given half a chance.

It's a force that actually calls for those tough choices and morally ambigious calls just to set up a chance to beat them back into the Deep Roads.

Also let's not forget that up until this point the Blight has provided the clearest and strongest plot line in the series.

[Herr Uhl]

Foolsfolly wrote...

The Blight's not interesting?

What?

It's an unstoppable, unyeilding, uncaring force of destruction that will sweep all society under the rug and destroy all life in Thedas and beyond if given half a chance.

It's a force that actually calls for those tough choices and morally ambigious calls just to set up a chance to beat them back into the Deep Roads.

Also let's not forget that up until this point the Blight has provided the clearest and strongest plot line in the series.

A blight isn't a plot, it is a backdrop/plot device. The blight itself is pretty cookie cutter (the unyielding uncaring force of destruction). Without a good setting it won't be interesting.

I wouldn't say that the blight was what DAO was about either, it was a device to set up more interesting plots. The Dalish, Dwarves, Redcliffe and the mage tower have almost nothing to do with the blight. It is the reason that you have to resolve those plots.

[Rawgrim]

I suspect the darkspawn still has a part to play. Bethany and the wardens were doing some unknown stuff when i ran into them in DA2. i am sure that has something to do with darkspawn.

[BubbleDncr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wether or not the Golden City was always black, doesnt change the fact that it was the Magisters of Tevinter who went there, that brought back the Blight with them. So even if the mages didn't corrupt the City, they still brought the curse of the Darkspawn upon the world.

But if the Maker's City was alway black, is there really a Maker?

At that point it wouldn't matter if it was Tevinter Mages who brough the blight - what would matter is everyone in Thedas has enough reason to question the Maker's existence and that is how the Chantry loses power.

And since the Chantry are the ones who control the mages, either a new group would have to step up and control them, or the mages would be "free."

[macrocarl]

BubbleDncr wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wether or not the Golden City was always black, doesnt change the fact that it was the Magisters of Tevinter who went there, that brought back the Blight with them. So even if the mages didn't corrupt the City, they still brought the curse of the Darkspawn upon the world.

But if the Maker's City was alway black, is there really a Maker?

At that point it wouldn't matter if it was Tevinter Mages who brough the blight - what would matter is everyone in Thedas has enough reason to question the Maker's existence and that is how the Chantry loses power.

And since the Chantry are the ones who control the mages, either a new group would have to step up and control them, or the mages would be "free."

Yeah the above is an example of the stories generated around having Darkspawn in the world that would help build up MOAR LOAR and hopefully answer more questions too. It's those stories that generate these questions and speculation. That's what I find still relevant concerning having Darkspawn.