54 réponses à ce sujet

[CmnDwnWrkn]

When BioWare sees an "exploit" they wish to eliminate, they throw everything they can at it, without any regard for the resulting impact to gameplay.  They wanted to lessen these speed runs and spawn nuking, so they implemented some dubious fixes, and this resulted in a spawn system that is now broken, so now it has a negative impact on all players.

[Dark Tlaloc]

I'm glad I'm not the only one confused by this. I don’t mind the instant re-spawns (or at least I consider them a necessary evil), but I think it’s incredibly cheap that if I nuke a couple bosses RIGHT next to an objective, there’s a decent chance that they’ll respawn in almost the same place instantaneously. Along the same lines, I find it really lame that I can clear all the enemies except one out of a room, only to be attacked from behind by multiple respawning enemies as I work on that last enemy (tends to be dragoons respawning behind me while I’m killing a phantom).

I understand that there’s always going to be some wonkiness when it comes to spawns, but as is, the spawns definitely need some tweaking.

[BjornDaDwarf]

Air Quotes wrote...

One game - See 2 Guardians - unload on them with the Typhoon, dead, Guardians keep spawning in front of my eyes at the same place they die, I don't even let go of my Typhoons trigger and the kill feed gets saturated with Guardian kills. Killed like 10 of them at the same spot 
 

The Guardian Train I've seen on a few maps.  Makes for a kinda hilarious wave when I'm just by myself, mowing them down one after another, as the rest of the team deals with other enemies.

[Zjarcal]

Air Quotes wrote...

One game - See 2 Guardians - unload on them with the Typhoon, dead, Guardians keep spawning in front of my eyes at the same place they die, I don't even let go of my Typhoons trigger and the kill feed gets saturated with Guardian kills. Killed like 10 of them at the same spot 

Guardians are so subtle.

Subtle...

Modifié par Zjarcal, 26 novembre 2012 - 05:31 .

[capn233]

Air Quotes wrote...

One game - See 2 Guardians - unload on them with the Typhoon, dead, Guardians keep spawning in front of my eyes at the same place they die, I don't even let go of my Typhoons trigger and the kill feed gets saturated with Guardian kills. Killed like 10 of them at the same spot 

I killed a bunch of Pyros on Ghost that way.  Black Widow though.

It is sort of strange.

[RedJohn]

The spawns are broken on Rio.

[upinya slayin]

Air Quotes wrote...

One game - See 2 Guardians - unload on them with the Typhoon, dead, Guardians keep spawning in front of my eyes at the same place they die, I don't even let go of my Typhoons trigger and the kill feed gets saturated with Guardian kills. Killed like 10 of them at the same spot 

Next game - Hack zone get's immediately overrun by 2 Atlases and Phantoms. I pull out the rocket launcher, boom, all dead. 2 Atlases and 4 Phantoms spawn at the same spot! Rocket again, again, again AND AGAIN! I'm out. Another 2 Atlases and 4 Phantoms spawn AT THE SAME FKN PLACE! IN THE HACK CIRCLE. 

WTF? 

was playing U/U/G and got clacier ceberus. 2 waves the enemies spawned directly behind me in the darkroom

[Lynx7725]

Actually, it's fairly normal behaviour.

Spawn works in a certain manner. If a player is too physically close to a spawn point, it tries not to spawn there. If a player has LOS within a certain distance, it tries not to spawn there. So yes, you can spawn-cap two (or more) locations at once -- I always spawn cap the hub and lab room spawns in Glacier.

Each spawn point has a limit (likely 5) maximum, subject I suspect to size limitations. If a spawn point cannot take that many, the SpawnMaker will find another spawn point.

Thing is, if the system decides that it has no choice, it can and will force a spawn point. If your team is brilliant and caps everything, it will spawn wherever it pleases. So part of spawn-cap strategy is precisely to leave some spawn points open.

Not only that, in objective waves, SpawnMaker gets very clear criteria for spawn point selection. Can't be too near. Should be near enough. Most obvious on Giant, Transfer Room outside hack. If you get a hack, the enemy will always spawn inside the Transfer room and near the Collapse Bunker, thus sandwiching the hack. Similar for the uphill hack.

Not only that, in my experience, once a spawn point is opened, it stays open for the whole wave. Enemy continues to spawn from it. This is most obvious in Objective Waves, the direction the enemy comes from is predictable once you observe the initial spawn.

Due to the higher Spawn budget in Gold+, multiple spawns are the rule in a wave. So if the spawn point is opened and you are happily killing Guardians there, the odds are good that you'll continue killing Guardians there, until SpawnMaker suddenly gets a spurt of budget and decide to spawn a Phantom somewhere.

Yeah, there has been some changes since Retailation, mainly that "hiding spawns" is apparently less of a concern. Maybe it's to prevent stuck mooks... annoying on Reactor and Giant, potentially game-breaking elsewhere.

[N7-RedFox]

I had a similar problem on Hydra vs Cerberus Wave 10, hack 4 devices, Gold.

I was literally sitting on hack point 1 so i got that straight away. Ran to hack number 2 and started capping it. 2 allies got sync killed. I completed hack 2 and moved onto the 3rd hack.

It was situated right at the bottom of the ramp from the LZ. I was upstairs to the left of the LZ and decided i would leap down off the side to get to the device. 2 phantoms and 1 dragoon were blocking my path. I figured it'd be fine if i just use a missile to get rid of them fast (it was wave 10 after all and i still had all 5 missiles).

So i blasted my way through and jumped down to the 3rd hack device below. 2 seconds later those 2 phantoms and 1 dragoon came running down the ramp and around the corner to me after i'd missiled them the first time. So i pull away from the hack and missile them again. I sit back down to the hack and im halfway through it, again the phantoms home in and try to stab me. Again i missile them dead. Wasted all my missiles but they just refused to stop spawning right next to my objective. Mission failed, sync-killed while trying to cap the 3rd device.

Absolutely f***ing ridiculous.

[Sihmm]

Zjarcal wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

One game - See 2 Guardians - unload on them with the Typhoon, dead, Guardians keep spawning in front of my eyes at the same place they die, I don't even let go of my Typhoons trigger and the kill feed gets saturated with Guardian kills. Killed like 10 of them at the same spot 

Guardians are so subtle.

Subtle...

Haha, that was sort of spooky.

[Sihmm]

Lynx7725 wrote...

Actually, it's fairly normal behaviour.
[...]
Not only that, in my experience, once a spawn point is opened, it stays open for the whole wave. Enemy continues to spawn from it. This is most obvious in Objective Waves, the direction the enemy comes from is predictable once you observe the initial spawn.

Due to the higher Spawn budget in Gold+, multiple spawns are the rule in a wave. So if the spawn point is opened and you are happily killing Guardians there, the odds are good that you'll continue killing Guardians there, until SpawnMaker suddenly gets a spurt of budget and decide to spawn a Phantom somewhere.

Yeah, there has been some changes since Retailation, mainly that "hiding spawns" is apparently less of a concern. Maybe it's to prevent stuck mooks... annoying on Reactor and Giant, potentially game-breaking elsewhere.

I'm not sure about this.  With the exception of objective rounds, I've never had enemies spawning right behind me - until recently.  And likewise it's fairly common to nuke one spawn, leave it empty (and blocked, as you're in it/staring at it) then move on to the next without anything respawning there until you've gone and more enemies have been killed.  Most gold games with good teams consist of running from spawn to spawn, clearing and moving on to the next one.

What's happened a lot recently is being in or near a spawn that previously one would not have expected to be active, only to have a phantom or marauder or whatever magically appear right on top of you, which I would say supports your position except that I can't remember it ever happening before the DLC.

(I'm a huge fan of your posts by the way, taught me a lot of the basics of MP back when I started and your anecdotes thread was very entertaining!)

[Lynx7725]

Sihmm wrote...
I'm not sure about this.  With the exception of objective rounds, I've never had enemies spawning right behind me - until recently.  And likewise it's fairly common to nuke one spawn, leave it empty (and blocked, as you're in it/staring at it) then move on to the next without anything respawning there until you've gone and more enemies have been killed.  Most gold games with good teams consist of running from spawn to spawn, clearing and moving on to the next one.

Hmm it may be possible that some of the spawning behaviour has changed, or the parameters for spawn-cap has changed. I won't rule it out, since it's technically not a balance change... so Bioware doesn't need to report it. xD

I did see spawns appear magically prior to Retaliation, usually on Hydra, at the usual sniping spot at the LZ to the far corner spawn zone. It does happen, and Hydra is one of the rare maps that has that sightline long enough to see it happen. I do notice it happening more often, but, really, as a sniper, am I going to argue when targets pop into my crosshairs? 

I personally has not had the misfortune to have a rear spawn happen on me before or since Retaliation, but I don't play on higher difficulties, so that's probably part of it. I did had the misfortune of not getting into spawn cap range to spawn points before the wave starts, and getting a face full of bosses (Atlas, Banshee on Ghost, Atlas, Geth Prime on Glacier, Scions on Reactor.. got clubbed to death on that one). This happens usually late game, and both before and after Retaliation.

Basically, near enough is not good enough for spawn capping. Spawn point decision is made at CPU speeds; if you aren't in cap range before that Wave banner appear, the spawn point is open game. Even if you are, there's a chance that the SpawnMaker will open it anyway.

There is likely some truth to what is being discussed here, though it's likely a parameter change that fluttered and accumulated effect. Basically, I'd have to treat all spawn points as active during a wave, and only use the cap strategy between waves.

(Come to think of it, that can be an effective anti-camping technique...)

Sihmm wrote...
(I'm a huge fan of your posts by the way, taught me a lot of the basics of MP back when I started and your anecdotes thread was very entertaining!)

Heh thanks. I've taken a more laid back approach to MP nowadays. Not much point writing long essays...

[sy7ar]

shouldn't you be happy about the guardians? easy way to score and end a wave.

And yes, spawns, sometimes they can be pretty effed, that they just appear right in front of you.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Working as intended.

/thread

[Whatislove?]

I thought they fixed this by having them spawn further away from hack circles? Guess not.

[JGDD]

Air Quotes wrote...

And it wasn't this way before. Atlases DID NOT spawn ON TOP of my head.

It's even better when brutes do that and **** slap you into a banshee grab.

Also: X

[kr3g]

Zjarcal wrote...

Guardians are so subtle.

Lol, I bet your Shadow was glad to see an egineer finally


As for the topic, they really need to make a cooldown of 5 seconds before another boss will respawn.

[Computron2000]

Lynx7725 wrote...
Spawn works in a certain manner. If a player is too physically close to a spawn point, it tries not to spawn there. If a player has LOS within a certain distance, it tries not to spawn there. So yes, you can spawn-cap two (or more) locations at once -- I always spawn cap the hub and lab room spawns in Glacier.

It used to be like that. Some time back, i would simply run to a spawn point and sit there. Nothing would spawn behind me. Now if you do this, you have to make sure you have LOS over the entire spawn spot or they will spawn behind you.

The change was likely either enlarging the spawn spot or tightening the area that you occupy as being a no-spawn region, so instead of lets say a 10m radius centered on you as being no-spawn, now its 1m radius.

[Ledgend1221]

Air Quotes's current thing to hate on.
What will be next?

[IoeShepard]

Anyone ever threw a grenade and had suddenly twice the amount of enemies in the same place ?

Happend yesterday on Firebase Jade.

[Crimson Vanguard]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Buggy as intended.

/thread

Fix that for you