71 réponses à ce sujet

[Scipio203]

 Is the war between the Qunari and the Tevinter Imperium going to lead to the defeat of the Imperium?

The reason I ask this is because as most of us know, the TI is loosely (and I mean as loose as a 16th century Venetian **** ) based off the Byzantine Empire, and the Qunari are (even more) loosely based off the Seljuk Turks/Ottoman Empire. One does not have to be a historian to know that the Byzantines eventually lost the Ottomans. It took a painstakingly long time, but the Byzantines did lose. 

Now, I just want to acknowledege the possibility that Bioware may follow history, and ultimately cause a Qunari victory. Maybe not in DA3, or even DA4, but eventually.

Thoughts?

Modifié par Scipio203, 26 novembre 2012 - 04:41 .

[Fredward]

I would have thought so since the Imperium has been on a decline since... forever. But with the recent mage troubles I think a lot of mages will be going to Tevinter and bolstering them. Depending on how bad the war is for Thedas the Qunari might even see the aftermath as a good time to attack, and then either the Imperium will be its first victim before the other nations fully realize the threat or they'll rally around the Imperium.

So it could go either way I suppose. xp

[DKJaigen]

While the nations of thedas are modeld after our own medieval nations its not a guarantee that the same thing will happen. After all Orlais conquered fereldan and not the other way around. But before we can pass judgement we need to see what the tevinter imperium is capable of.

[Reznore57]

I'm not sure the Imperium will crumble ,let's not forget they have deep knowledge of magic ...
They are unpredictable , we do not know what they are capable of ( well they have been to the golden city and sunk arlathan in their glorious days , so ...).

I thinks it depends on how many tricks they have up their sleeves ,they are not what they used to be , I can't imagine them re conquer the whole continent , but they 've been fighting the qunari for years now , all by themselves.
Besides when the Quanri and Imperium started to fight , they were no more an Empire , the empire already have been defeated by Andraste .

[garrusfan1]

I think the qunari could but they would lose a lot of people doing it cause I have a feeling that the tevinter imperium would not surrender since they know what would happen afterwards so it would be a matter of how long till the rest of thedas would help so the damage would be done in tevinter not their own countries if they helped early I think the qunari would stop since their casualties would be so high that even they would realize it isn't worth it.

[Fast Jimmy]

The Qunari cannot be stopped. They WILL not be stopped.

I'm not a big Qunari supporter, its just the simple nature of things. They have superior forces that are trained and disciplined. They have superior technology in the form of gunpowder and cannons. They are physically dominant over every other species. And they have mages that are unwavering in their commitment to their religion. Even the Tal-Vashoth, Kossiths who have rejected the Qun, would never actually fight against it. They still believe (from what we have seen in DA2) in the Qun, they just do not accept that their assigned role is the best for them.

The only reason the Qunari haven't rolled over the entire length of Thedas is the Tome of Koslun. When this was lost hundreds of years ago, the Qunari lost the will to fight when they were dominating before. Now that Hawke witlessly put it back in their hands to save one pithing city, they will mobilize for war again and this time not stop.

Whether that means the Tome has any actual military power that the Chantry was never able to unlock, or if the Qunari really are that sentimental after all is a little irrelevant at this point... they will seize back total control of the northern lands, the Tevinter included. And then the Magisters will know what it is to be the slaves instead of the slave masters.

[Androme]

I hope the Qunari gets slaughtered.

[Zerker]

Fenris claims that if Qunari wanted to conquer all of Tevinter, they could, they only wanted Seheron. This is very much like the Ottoman-Byzantine conflict, where after reaching to sea of Marmara, Turks only conquered Rumelia(to expand through rich Belkan lands) and did not touch any other Byzantine territory for a very long time.

I assume Qunari expansion towards Tevinter would be the doing of a new Qunari leader, a warmonger. It was Mehmed II who decided to end the Byzantine presence after all, right after he seized the throne. To finish the job, he even marched towards partly-Byzantine kingdom of Trebizond and conquered that one too.

Modifié par Maddok900, 26 novembre 2012 - 05:16 .

[TK514]

I suspect it will continue to be a stalemate, or possibly a slow decline of the Imperium, until the unspoken Darkspawn problem the Qunari have finally gets away from them and their society cracks under the onslaught.

[garrusfan1]

Fast jimmy the tal vashoth did fight the qunari in DA2 and the codex thing says thedas stopped the qunari only by using the mages which scared the qunari. It all comes down to how much casualties the qunari would be willing to take cause if they took to many they wouldn't be able to hold onto it afterwards.

[Navasha]

While its true that the Imperium is a civilization in decline, I don't think you can equivocate war with the Qunari as any other war. They are not necessarily seeking the end of the Imperium. Their goals are not typical human motivations. You can't assume that they seek to end the war by crushing the Imperium.

The Qunari are little more than an exaggerated ant colony. Their goals and motivations are just as alien as the hive mind of an ant colony. They took Seheron, probably for more territory and are seemingly content with that for now.

[Fast Jimmy]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Fast jimmy the tal vashoth did fight the qunari in DA2 and the codex thing says thedas stopped the qunari only by using the mages which scared the qunari. It all comes down to how much casualties the qunari would be willing to take cause if they took to many they wouldn't be able to hold onto it afterwards.

Which Codex entry are you mentioning that says the Qunari were scared away by mages? The first time the Qunari conquered Kirkwall back in 7:56 Storm, it was taken over BECAUSE the Qunari used their mages (Saarebaas) heavily, so magic attacks themselves seem... unlikely... to cause them to just run away.

And I was directly talking about the end of the Third Exalted March, where the Llomeryn Accord was signed DIRECTLY after the Tome of Koslun was stolen.

EntropicAngel wrote...

You should do voice-overs.

In a world... where brutal armies seek to rule over Thedas...

...only one man can stand up to stem the tide of injustice.

Rob Schneider is... The Inquisitor!

https://encrypted-tb...0BTm_i5zf3jkWvA

HE'S the one asking the Questions now.

[Fast Jimmy]

Navasha wrote...

While its true that the Imperium is a civilization in decline, I don't think you can equivocate war with the Qunari as any other war. They are not necessarily seeking the end of the Imperium. Their goals are not typical human motivations. You can't assume that they seek to end the war by crushing the Imperium.

The Qunari are little more than an exaggerated ant colony. Their goals and motivations are just as alien as the hive mind of an ant colony. They took Seheron, probably for more territory and are seemingly content with that for now.

The Qunari state their goal is not more territory, land or resources. It is for the glory and advancement of the Qun. They conquer to convert. They expand to enlighten. They subjugate to... well, subjugate. 

Its not a power play. Its a directive they have. And when every single member of a society is bent on conquering the world, there's not a WHOLE lot that can be done to stop them... especially when they are 7 foot tall gray giants with horns and cannons.

[Fast Jimmy]

simfamSP wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The Qunari cannot be stopped. They WILL not be stopped.

I'm not a big Qunari supporter, its just the simple nature of things. They have superior forces that are trained and disciplined. They have superior technology in the form of gunpowder and cannons. They are physically dominant over every other species. And they have mages that are unwavering in their commitment to their religion. Even the Tal-Vashoth, Kossiths who have rejected the Qun, would never actually fight against it. They still believe (from what we have seen in DA2) in the Qun, they just do not accept that their assigned role is the best for them.

The only reason the Qunari haven't rolled over the entire length of Thedas is the Tome of Koslun. When this was lost hundreds of years ago, the Qunari lost the will to fight when they were dominating before. Now that Hawke witlessly put it back in their hands to save one pithing city, they will mobilize for war again and this time not stop.

Whether that means the Tome has any actual military power that the Chantry was never able to unlock, or if the Qunari really are that sentimental after all is a little irrelevant at this point... they will seize back total control of the northern lands, the Tevinter included. And then the Magisters will know what it is to be the slaves instead of the slave masters.

I seem to remember there was a choice not to give the tome... so, what would BioWare to do deal with that?

I think the only option was to have Isabella steal the Tome and then have her not return (due to a low Friendship/Rivalry score). I don't think there is an option if you kill the Arishok to not give the Tome back. But I could be wrong?

If it is just a matter of Isabella, they could have the outcome be that when Isabella ran, she was caught and the Tome was recovered. If there was a scenario where Hawke could hold onto the Tome after defeating the Arishok, then maybe it, too, could be stolen back?

[xsdob]

They've been slowly declining since the first civil war between magisters for the rank of archon broke out hundreds of years ago.

It will end the same way rome did, slowly with much fracturing and warfare.

[Wulfram]

Probably depends whether the Qunari can avoid taking on the rest of Thedas at the same time

[TheBlackAdder13]

The Tevinter Imperium is clearly inspired by the Byzantine Empire but I just don't see the Qunari or the Qun as anything like the Ottoman Turks. In fact, I can't think of any parallels other than the fact that they're constantly fighting with the Tevinter Imperium. As such, I don't think you can look at history to determine what's going to happen in the story.

[Drakar123]

 As it is currently Tevinter will probably lose to the qunari eventually.However should a strong Archon ever rise and unite the magisters then Tevinter would be able to easily beat the qunari and the rest of thedas would quickly follow assuming a blight doesn't stop them.

The greatest strength of the qunari is that they do not question orders and their blind obedience to the qun.Against an enemy like the imperium however this could also become their greatest weakness.To defeat the qunari the magisters simply need to sneak powerful blood mages in to qunari lands( have them pretend to be converts or train a few kossith magisters) and have them mind control the qunari leaders.Destroying them from the inside is child's play after that.Just have those leaders drive the qunari into the ground and the best part is that no one will question them regardless of how ridiculous their orders are.Once the qunari eventually realize what is happening and replace their leaders the magisters would simply control the new ones until the qunari devolve into anarchy and chaos since once the qun fails they would have nothing to replace it with having never been taught anything else.

After they are sufficently weakened the magisters could come into their lands and take all of their technology and enslave them.They could take the rest of thedas with this method as well by forcng every country into a civil war until they no longer have any soldiers and then just come and take back their lands.Blood magic is seriously broken and the only ones who have any defense against it are the tevinters.The reason mages are locked up in circles isn't because they are a threath to the common people (the amount of abominations in tevinter is the same as that of any other nation on thedas) but because a single skilled blood mage could take over a country and control it from the shadows without anyone knowing.There is a very good reason as to why the imperium has been around for over 10000 years.It has by far the best political system in all of thedas(I discussed this in great detail in the what do you think of tevinter thread.If you wish to continue that discussion do it there)

Anyway yeah from how things look right now the imperium might lose or they might turn around he situation with mind control or one of those crazy blood magic rituals they are so famous for.Should Minrathous ever fall I have no doubt the magisters wouldnt think twice about sinking seheron and par vollen if it meant taking their capital back.

[Giltspur]

Bioware could always say "Okay, let's imagine history didn't turn out the way it did and instead it write our game this way instead."  So even if you find the historical or mythological inspiration for a source it doesn't necessarily give you the key to predicting what will happen unless you can predict what an author wants to change about a story he's reacting to.

That said

Yeah, I think the Qunari will win.

[Fast Jimmy]

If the Magisters were capable or willing to do such blood mage espionage, why would they have not done the same to the Chantry? Or pretty much any other kingdom? The Chantry discourages royal mage advisors and the such, so a blood mage could sneak into the ranks and do this very thing.

Apparently, infiltrating brothels is more exciting for blood mages than using the same powers to actually affect change in the world, I guess.


I hope DA3 doesn't touch much on Tevinter, as it is the kind of nation that deserves the full attention of an entire game. Not to mention the Save Import makes any locations previously visited as toxic for story-telling, so I hope that Orlais is scratched off the list and other locations, like Tevinter, Antiva, Rivain or Par Vollen, are still ripe for telling stories in.

[Drakar123]

 The thing is they could.If the magisters weren't fighting against themselves such a thing would be pretty easy to accomplish.As Lambert said once his best friend became the black divine he spent all of his time trying to keep his power instead of using it.If the magisters stopped fighting each other for a moment and focused on their enemies then they would be invincible.A single powerful archon could make all the difference between having the imperium fall completely and regaining it's former glory.Tevinter is the only nation which can't be conquered with blood magic since the magisters are blood mages they have means to defend against mind control.On the other hand every other country would fall easily.Mind control the nobles in every country and have them start a civil war and you are pretty much guaranteed to conquer them.Tevinter could conquer all of thedas without ever having to deploy it's army this way.Just look at what gaspard is doing in orlais.Because of him the country is collapsing and tevinter could reproduce the same situation everywhere except they could make it even worse.If the imperium wasn't corrupt there would be no stopping them.

[Fredward]

Eh? I always thought the Qunari (like big-horn-greys) were relatively few in number compared to the rest of Thedas. Or even Tevinter. Also their technology boom-cannons seem to have stayed the same for the last two hundred years and they were halted then by mages. PLUS we have that dwarf whose coming up with the non-Qunari version of 'splody powder. PLUS with the Qunari's aversion to magic and their selective breeding programs I think their number of magic wielders would be pretty low.

So no I don't think the Qunari would win. Maybe destroy a weakened Tevinter, eventually but not more than that. I mean yes they're freakishly dedicated and the big-horn-greys are probably the worth of four regular men and apparently ALL their people will fight tooth and nail for survival so I don't really see the Qunari going anywhere in the near future, it would be a nasty war of attrition, but I hardly see them steam rolling over Thedas.

[Zerker]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

The Tevinter Imperium is clearly inspired by the Byzantine Empire but I just don't see the Qunari or the Qun as anything like the Ottoman Turks. In fact, I can't think of any parallels other than the fact that they're constantly fighting with the Tevinter Imperium. As such, I don't think you can look at history to determine what's going to happen in the story.

Well, as someone who studied the history of Turkic Peoples for five years in college, I can relate the Qunari and the Ottoman Empire on more than a few traits.

Modifié par Maddok900, 26 novembre 2012 - 08:31 .