45 réponses à ce sujet

[Nassou]

Has anyone found one yet? If so, where?

[Sharog]

trying to find also, havent got a clue

[aesir05]

the urn of sacred ashes if you side with Kolgrim....myself looking for a different option

[Eonassassin]

Only way is to pour the blood of the high dragon in the urn. (If you do this Leliana and Wynne will turn on you)

But you can always do this unlock the class and go back to a save before the urn.

[SLPr0]

Yeah this is a seriously annoying and frustrating one for me, having to desecrate the Urn to achieve this is a horrifying way to have to unlock a specialization. Especially given the consequences...which is to lose Leliana and Wynne in the process, both of them will turn on you regardless of whether they're with you at the time or not from every thing I've read.

It is basically a situation where an "evil" decision is forced to unlock a part of the game and I find that to be a very unacceptable method of unlocking a piece of the game content especially in a BioWare game which are generally always about alternate ways of going about things.

[code2501]

Real choices with Real consequences.

Or you could just unlock it and reload.

And of course "ya can't please everyone".

[Sornin]

SLPr0 wrote...

Yeah this is a seriously annoying and frustrating one for me, having to desecrate the Urn to achieve this is a horrifying way to have to unlock a specialization. Especially given the consequences...which is to lose Leliana and Wynne in the process, both of them will turn on you regardless of whether they're with you at the time or not from every thing I've read.

It is basically a situation where an "evil" decision is forced to unlock a part of the game and I find that to be a very unacceptable method of unlocking a piece of the game content especially in a BioWare game which are generally always about alternate ways of going about things.

You find destroying the urn to gain the Reaver specialization to be too evil and horrifying, yet you presumably would have no problem using the specialization?

You do realize that a Reaver uses blood magic and all sorts of evil things to gain his power, right? It makes sense that it takes an evil act to gain it. If you were to use it, even if there was a "good" way to gain it, you would still be committing an evil act.

Anyway, where was that definition of hypocrisy...

[Taerda]

Unlocks would have made much more sense if they were either done as seperate quests or done per character only. As they are, it seems that the full system was not implemented and a quick solution placed ingame due to time constraints or whatever.



Real choices with real consequences don't apply to unlocks that are carried over from one character/campaign to all the others.

[Original182]

Can you learn it from a book?

[Sornin]

Taerda wrote...

Unlocks would have made much more sense if they were either done as seperate quests or done per character only. As they are, it seems that the full system was not implemented and a quick solution placed ingame due to time constraints or whatever.

Real choices with real consequences don't apply to unlocks that are carried over from one character/campaign to all the others.

I definitely agree with this, but I think the decision was more of a quality-of-life one rather than one that stems from logical design.

I think they wanted to allow players to change how they played the game and the order they attempted things without feeling constrained by having to do things a certain way to get the specializations. Plus, the specializations you buy via manuals are then sort of too accessible compared to the ones you have to earn.

Anyway, while I agree, I can understand why they went the other way. Already people whine about no respecs, I can only imagine the ire over having to unlock things each run.

[Sornin]

Original182 wrote...

Can you learn it from a book?

No.

[SLPr0]

Sornin wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

Yeah this is a seriously annoying and frustrating one for me, having to desecrate the Urn to achieve this is a horrifying way to have to unlock a specialization. Especially given the consequences...which is to lose Leliana and Wynne in the process, both of them will turn on you regardless of whether they're with you at the time or not from every thing I've read.

It is basically a situation where an "evil" decision is forced to unlock a part of the game and I find that to be a very unacceptable method of unlocking a piece of the game content especially in a BioWare game which are generally always about alternate ways of going about things.

You find destroying the urn to gain the Reaver specialization to be too evil and horrifying, yet you presumably would have no problem using the specialization?

You do realize that a Reaver uses blood magic and all sorts of evil things to gain his power, right? It makes sense that it takes an evil act to gain it. If you were to use it, even if there was a "good" way to gain it, you would still be committing an evil act.

Anyway, where was that definition of hypocrisy...

I think calling me a hypocrite is pretty strong language for the given situation sir. Its not a case of using it, its a case of what it takes to get it and it having a single linear decision which requires an act of desecration that is nearly impossible to consider.

You can become a Blood Mage in the Fade quite easily without suffering heavy consequences for doing so, you can also gain blood magic abilities by drinking a potion at Warden's Hold without a negative peep from anyone.

So to me its not a case of using it, or wanting to use it specifically but that its actually such a drastic decision in pure disrespect for what is a holy relic within the lore. Simply to attain a specialization which is a part of the games available dynamic content.

So anyways I think you judge very harshly when you call someone a hypocrite. I still haven't unlocked the Reaver specialization and I likely never will given the circumstances of its availability, I was simply pointing out that this was a very odd and frustrating move on BioWare's part which is out of character with their normal multi-approach resolutions.

[Taerda]

Sornin wrote...

Taerda wrote...

Unlocks would have made much more sense if they were either done as seperate quests or done per character only. As they are, it seems that the full system was not implemented and a quick solution placed ingame due to time constraints or whatever.

Real choices with real consequences don't apply to unlocks that are carried over from one character/campaign to all the others.

I definitely agree with this, but I think the decision was more of a quality-of-life one rather than one that stems from logical design.

I think they wanted to allow players to change how they played the game and the order they attempted things without feeling constrained by having to do things a certain way to get the specializations. Plus, the specializations you buy via manuals are then sort of too accessible compared to the ones you have to earn.

Anyway, while I agree, I can understand why they went the other way. Already people whine about no respecs, I can only imagine the ire over having to unlock things each run.

Agreed, but it still seems to be an incomplete implementation - especially when some like the Reaver have plot twists and turns but others, like Ranger is book learned only. (afaik).

[Sornin]

SLPr0 wrote...

Sornin wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

Yeah this is a seriously annoying and frustrating one for me, having to desecrate the Urn to achieve this is a horrifying way to have to unlock a specialization. Especially given the consequences...which is to lose Leliana and Wynne in the process, both of them will turn on you regardless of whether they're with you at the time or not from every thing I've read.

It is basically a situation where an "evil" decision is forced to unlock a part of the game and I find that to be a very unacceptable method of unlocking a piece of the game content especially in a BioWare game which are generally always about alternate ways of going about things.

You find destroying the urn to gain the Reaver specialization to be too evil and horrifying, yet you presumably would have no problem using the specialization?

You do realize that a Reaver uses blood magic and all sorts of evil things to gain his power, right? It makes sense that it takes an evil act to gain it. If you were to use it, even if there was a "good" way to gain it, you would still be committing an evil act.

Anyway, where was that definition of hypocrisy...

I think calling me a hypocrite is pretty strong language for the given situation sir. Its not a case of using it, its a case of what it takes to get it and it having a single linear decision which requires an act of desecration that is nearly impossible to consider.

You can become a Blood Mage in the Fade quite easily without suffering heavy consequences for doing so, you can also gain blood magic abilities by drinking a potion at Warden's Hold without a negative peep from anyone.

So to me its not a case of using it, or wanting to use it specifically but that its actually such a drastic decision in pure disrespect for what is a holy relic within the lore. Simply to attain a specialization which is a part of the games available dynamic content.

So anyways I think you judge very harshly when you call someone a hypocrite. I still haven't unlocked the Reaver specialization and I likely never will given the circumstances of its availability, I was simply pointing out that this was a very odd and frustrating move on BioWare's part which is out of character with their normal multi-approach resolutions.

The problem is that you are clearly the type of player that makes very moral choices, which is cool, but it also means that you are creating a paradox here by wanting evil content without making the necessary evil choice.

A Reaver is an evil specialization so, by your morals that do not allow you to desecrate the urn, you would presumably not want to use it, anyway. Therefore, why does it matter to you that it takes an evil act and only an evil act to gain it? Even if you could unlock it by, say, buying a tome, it is still just as evil.

That is where I feel the hypocrisy comes from. You clearly want the Reaver specialization but are unable to come to terms with what it takes to be a Reaver, which makes it appear as though you just want it without having to confront the gravity of your choice.

On a side note, BioWare obviously succeeded in their goal to make people make tough decisions.

[imvs77]

Eonassassin wrote...

Only way is to pour the blood of the high dragon in the urn. (If you do this Leliana and Wynne will turn on you)
But you can always do this unlock the class and go back to a save before the urn.

Will it still be unlocked when you go back to an earlier save?

I would like to unlock all the available specializations for my character but I just can't get over having to do that and lose Lelianna over it, not after I spent so much time leveling her up.

[Taerda]

imvs77 wrote...

Eonassassin wrote...

Only way is to pour the blood of the high dragon in the urn. (If you do this Leliana and Wynne will turn on you)
But you can always do this unlock the class and go back to a save before the urn.

Will it still be unlocked when you go back to an earlier save?

I would like to unlock all the available specializations for my character but I just can't get over having to do that and lose Lelianna over it, not after I spent so much time leveling her up.

Yes, it should, as long as you wait for the unlock achievement to splash on your screen. If you fail to wait for  the update it does not transfer over.

[SLPr0]

Sornin wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

Sornin wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

Yeah this is a seriously annoying and frustrating one for me, having to desecrate the Urn to achieve this is a horrifying way to have to unlock a specialization. Especially given the consequences...which is to lose Leliana and Wynne in the process, both of them will turn on you regardless of whether they're with you at the time or not from every thing I've read.

It is basically a situation where an "evil" decision is forced to unlock a part of the game and I find that to be a very unacceptable method of unlocking a piece of the game content especially in a BioWare game which are generally always about alternate ways of going about things.

You find destroying the urn to gain the Reaver specialization to be too evil and horrifying, yet you presumably would have no problem using the specialization?

You do realize that a Reaver uses blood magic and all sorts of evil things to gain his power, right? It makes sense that it takes an evil act to gain it. If you were to use it, even if there was a "good" way to gain it, you would still be committing an evil act.

Anyway, where was that definition of hypocrisy...

I think calling me a hypocrite is pretty strong language for the given situation sir. Its not a case of using it, its a case of what it takes to get it and it having a single linear decision which requires an act of desecration that is nearly impossible to consider.

You can become a Blood Mage in the Fade quite easily without suffering heavy consequences for doing so, you can also gain blood magic abilities by drinking a potion at Warden's Hold without a negative peep from anyone.

So to me its not a case of using it, or wanting to use it specifically but that its actually such a drastic decision in pure disrespect for what is a holy relic within the lore. Simply to attain a specialization which is a part of the games available dynamic content.

So anyways I think you judge very harshly when you call someone a hypocrite. I still haven't unlocked the Reaver specialization and I likely never will given the circumstances of its availability, I was simply pointing out that this was a very odd and frustrating move on BioWare's part which is out of character with their normal multi-approach resolutions.

The problem is that you are clearly the type of player that makes very moral choices, which is cool, but it also means that you are creating a paradox here by wanting evil content without making the necessary evil choice.

A Reaver is an evil specialization so, by your morals that do not allow you to desecrate the urn, you would presumably not want to use it, anyway. Therefore, why does it matter to you that it takes an evil act and only an evil act to gain it? Even if you could unlock it by, say, buying a tome, it is still just as evil.

That is where I feel the hypocrisy comes from. You clearly want the Reaver specialization but are unable to come to terms with what it takes to be a Reaver, which makes it appear as though you just want it without having to confront the gravity of your choice.

On a side note, BioWare obviously succeeded in their goal to make people make tough decisions.

There is simply no other specialization in the game which requires a choice with this much gravity. That is my point. And its not even as if Reaver is all that outstanding, from what I can tell its just death magic...which is readily available to any mage upon creation.

So largely its not a case of want, its a case of looking at the way its attained as compared to the rest of the specializations and finding it a decision I will never be willing to make, and thusly a piece of game content I won't be experiencing.

[Taerda]

SLPr0 wrote...
There is simply no other specialization in the game which requires a choice with this much gravity. That is my point. And its not even as if Reaver is all that outstanding, from what I can tell its just death magic...which is readily available to any mage upon creation.

So largely its not a case of want, its a case of looking at the way its attained as compared to the rest of the specializations and finding it a decision I will never be willing to make, and thusly a piece of game content I won't be experiencing.

Getting the Blood Mage unlock is suppossed to have as much gravity - especially if you have played the Mage origins and understand that the blood school is the "Forbidden school" ... becomming an assassin should have as big of an impact as well... after all, you need to go to an outsider of your society to even learn it (assuming you do not read the book).

Heck, even the Templar unlock is suppossed to be big.. Allistair betrays an oath that he took and that no other Templar has in 1000s of years ... that in itself is heavy on Allistair's soul if you follow the dialougue.

I personally have not unlocked: Templar, Assassin, Blood Mage nor Reaver because my characters would not have followed the path to unlocking them (Spirit Healer as well, but I was told here that is not unlockable by Wynne).

[Iggynous]

you would think you would learn it from the Legion of the Dead dwarves, it suits them far better



they would be reavers, dancing on the edge of life and all

[Nighteye2]

SLPr0 wrote...
Yeah this is a seriously annoying and frustrating one for me, having to desecrate the Urn to achieve this is a horrifying way to have to unlock a specialization. Especially given the consequences...which is to lose Leliana and Wynne in the process, both of them will turn on you regardless of whether they're with you at the time or not from every thing I've read.

Actually, I read that with high persuasion you can lie to Leliana to keep her, if she's not there with you. Wynne, however...

It is basically a situation where an "evil" decision is forced to unlock a part of the game and I find that to be a very unacceptable method of unlocking a piece of the game content especially in a BioWare game which are generally always about alternate ways of going about things.

Is it so wrong to have only an evil option available to unlock an 'evil' class? It makes more sense...

[Shady314]

Iggynous wrote...

you would think you would learn it from the Legion of the Dead dwarves, it suits them far better

they would be reavers, dancing on the edge of life and all

 That's not what the Reaver class is about. And that's true of any warrior. Especially Grey wardens so I guess everybody should be Reavers.... logically. 

Modifié par Shady314, 23 novembre 2009 - 11:12 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

Iggynous wrote...
you would think you would learn it from the Legion of the Dead dwarves, it suits them far better

they would be reavers, dancing on the edge of life and all

Hehehe. Reaver Dance.

[Element CL]

Feed dog every bone in the game and he poops the reaver book out.

[dannythefool]

Taerda wrote...
I personally have not unlocked: Templar, Assassin, Blood Mage nor Reaver because my characters would not have followed the path to unlocking them (Spirit Healer as well, but I was told here that is not unlockable by Wynne).

I don't think any of these carry the weight they should. Reaver is the only specialisation from your list that you actually have to fight for, but it's not exactly a challenging situation... and of course if you don't reload, you lose party members, but if you're the sort of person who wants to unlock reaver you don't like those two anyway.
Blood mage actually saves you a fight that can be challenging if you don't bring the right skills too early in the game and has no bearing on the story otherwise. Templar and Assassin can be bought in stores. Plus, if you prefer unlocking them through the story, for either of these two you need to be a more or less good person, which I guess makes more people able to unlock them...

Modifié par dannythefool, 23 novembre 2009 - 12:00 .

[Shady314]

dannythefool wrote...
Blood mage actually saves you a fight that can be challenging if you don't bring the right skills too early in the game and has no bearing on the story otherwise. 

Except of course for how you damn the soul of a little boy. But hey whatever. If it gets you out of a fight and only gets mentioned in the end what does it really matter? So much for roleplaying.