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Shadows need a buff


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#1
MuKen

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The number of Shadows since the last nerf has dropped tremendously, and they were hardly an overpowered class even before then.  This is a shame, since it is a pretty unique class.  It's not like other classes where if one particular variant is too weak, there are probably 2 or 3 similar classes that you can swap to with roughly the same playstyle.  I think there are two issues that need to be addressed:

1)  Shadow Strike should not get punished by the target when successful.  The power already requires you to choose enemies that are facing other players you so you won't be interrupted, and to make sure there isn't anyone else around to shoot you while attacking since it is not invincible.  This already caps the amount you can use it enough, the fact that some enemies will then proceed to mess you up after they have been successfully hit is too much.  It severely limits this power on some factions (collectors being prime on this list).

Also, the fact that this then adds a need for you to wait and time your attack on some enemies, like Brutes, is at odds with the fact that the game's netcode sometimes does not allow you to use a power exactly when you wish to use it.  I'm not saying they should go back and revamp all the netcode, but I AM saying that knowing the code doesn't support precise timing of powers, you should not design powers to require precise timing.

What I suggest is that the Shadow Strike include either an automatic backstep right after the hit that brings you safely away from abominations, ravager sacs, etc.  Or that it include enough force to stagger or knock your target away from you.

2)  The Electric Slash nerf was done wrong, it nerfs a power that was not OP, and doesn't actually stop people from spamming it (which was probably the intent).  If you want to stop wall spamming, a better choice would be to simply change the damage to something like an 8 second non-stacking DOT.  Then there is no point in spamming it more than once every 8 seconds.  The cooldown should be reverted to its original value, restoring its use as a quick crowd control attack, and the damage changed to a DOT.

Modifié par MuKen, 26 novembre 2012 - 08:12 .


#2
TehGuth

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Good ideas imo.

#3
Drayce333

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Shadow does not need a buff.

#4
TrollBerzerker01

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Drayce333 wrote...

Shadow does not need a buff.



#5
Gearsofwarowns

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She definitely doesn't need a buff. Also, your second point is definitely a nerf rather than a buff...

#6
BridgeBurner

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Drayce333 wrote...

Shadow does not need a buff.



#7
Jackville Assington

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what she needs is to stop kill stealing

#8
MuKen

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Gearsofwarowns wrote...

She definitely doesn't need a buff. Also, your second point is definitely a nerf rather than a buff...


It allows cloak cancelling, that's a huge buff.  And I didn't even specify the relative amount of the DOT, how can you say whether damage-wise its too little or too much?

Jackville Assington wrote...

what she needs is to stop kill stealing


If a Shadow Strike beats you to the kill, that means she started the attack way before you did.

Modifié par MuKen, 26 novembre 2012 - 08:23 .


#9
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:blink: what made you change your mind?  

#10
upinya slayin

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MuKen wrote...

The number of Shadows since the last nerf has dropped tremendously, and they were hardly an overpowered class even before then.  This is a shame, since it is a pretty unique class.  It's not like other classes where if one particular variant is too weak, there are probably 2 or 3 similar classes that you can swap to with roughly the same playstyle.  I think there are two issues that need to be addressed:

1)  Shadow Strike should not get punished by the target when successful.  The power already requires you to choose enemies that are facing other players you so you won't be interrupted, and to make sure there isn't anyone else around to shoot you while attacking since it is not invincible.  This already caps the amount you can use it enough, the fact that some enemies will then proceed to mess you up after they have been successfully hit is too much.  It severely limits this power on some factions (collectors being prime on this list).

Also, the fact that this then adds a need for you to wait and time your attack on some enemies, like Brutes, is at odds with the fact that the game's netcode sometimes does not allow you to use a power exactly when you wish to use it.  I'm not saying they should go back and revamp all the netcode, but I AM saying that knowing the code doesn't support precise timing of powers, you should not design powers to require precise timing.

What I suggest is that the Shadow Strike include either an automatic backstep right after the hit that brings you safely away from abominations, ravager sacs, etc.  Or that it include enough force to stagger or knock your target away from you.

2)  The Electric Slash nerf was done wrong, it nerfs a power that was not OP, and doesn't actually stop people from spamming it (which was probably the intent).  If you want to stop wall spamming, a better choice would be to simply change the damage to something like an 8 second non-stacking DOT.  Then there is no point in spamming it more than once every 8 seconds.  The cooldown should be reverted to its original value, restoring its use as a quick crowd control attack, and the damage changed to a DOT.


lol shadows need a buff? hardly i made a thread a while ago about how much damage ES does but can't find it lol

#11
ChatmanJay

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Nah B...

#12
Vikingo

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Drayce333 wrote...

Shadow does not need a buff.



#13
MuKen

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Air Quotes wrote...

:blink: what made you change your mind?  


I told you, I was never opposed to buffing the Shadow, I've made numerous buff requests in the past. I was only opposed to the manner in which you wished to buff her.

#14
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upinya slayin wrote...

MuKen wrote...

The number of Shadows since the last nerf has dropped tremendously, and they were hardly an overpowered class even before then.  This is a shame, since it is a pretty unique class.  It's not like other classes where if one particular variant is too weak, there are probably 2 or 3 similar classes that you can swap to with roughly the same playstyle.  I think there are two issues that need to be addressed:

1)  Shadow Strike should not get punished by the target when successful.  The power already requires you to choose enemies that are facing other players you so you won't be interrupted, and to make sure there isn't anyone else around to shoot you while attacking since it is not invincible.  This already caps the amount you can use it enough, the fact that some enemies will then proceed to mess you up after they have been successfully hit is too much.  It severely limits this power on some factions (collectors being prime on this list).

Also, the fact that this then adds a need for you to wait and time your attack on some enemies, like Brutes, is at odds with the fact that the game's netcode sometimes does not allow you to use a power exactly when you wish to use it.  I'm not saying they should go back and revamp all the netcode, but I AM saying that knowing the code doesn't support precise timing of powers, you should not design powers to require precise timing.

What I suggest is that the Shadow Strike include either an automatic backstep right after the hit that brings you safely away from abominations, ravager sacs, etc.  Or that it include enough force to stagger or knock your target away from you.

2)  The Electric Slash nerf was done wrong, it nerfs a power that was not OP, and doesn't actually stop people from spamming it (which was probably the intent).  If you want to stop wall spamming, a better choice would be to simply change the damage to something like an 8 second non-stacking DOT.  Then there is no point in spamming it more than once every 8 seconds.  The cooldown should be reverted to its original value, restoring its use as a quick crowd control attack, and the damage changed to a DOT.


lol shadows need a buff? hardly i made a thread a while ago about how much damage ES does but can't find it lol


ES is a noob power that is OP maxed out, but it's not fun or involving and it's too slow. 

#15
MuKen

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upinya slayin wrote...

lol shadows need a buff? hardly i made a thread a while ago about how much damage ES does but can't find it lol


And yet you oppose a change that limits spamming ES.  Did you read the post, or just the title?

Modifié par MuKen, 26 novembre 2012 - 08:22 .


#16
MuKen

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I'm willing to bet players that think she doesn't need a buff don't play U/U.

#17
Kalas Magnus

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TehGuth wrote...

Good ideas imo.


Drayce333 wrote...

Shadow does need a buff.


Modifié par Kalas321, 26 novembre 2012 - 08:30 .


#18
CarparkC

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Drayce333 wrote...

Shadow does need a buff.



#19
Yoshiyuki Ly

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She's fine.

#20
upinya slayin

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MuKen wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

lol shadows need a buff? hardly i made a thread a while ago about how much damage ES does but can't find it lol


And yet you oppose a change that limits spamming ES.  Did you read the post, or just the title?


I read it. Shadow strike with amps will 1-hot any non boss enemy pretty much and if it doens't a melee will finish them off. you get a cloak bonus no matter what and can take movement speed too. with a good weapon (wraith etc) for bosses and shadow strike for the mooks you can spc out of ES completly and its still very powerfull.

MuKen wrote...
I'm willing to bet players that think she doesn't need a buff don't play U/U.


all i play pretty much is U/U/G

#21
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Or you should gain DR by getting melee or SS kills like Krogans do.

Also FASTER Shadow Strike. Enemies hit you because the character is teleported instantly to an enemy when you initiate SS, but then you have to watch the long teleport animation, the long wind-up of the sword and then the strike. This gives the enemy about 1-1.5 seconds to melee you before you do anything.

Vanguard Charge is similar, but at least you restore shields, apply force to an enemy and can knock them out or stagger them. And you can stagger more than 1 target.

#22
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upinya slayin wrote...

MuKen wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

lol shadows need a buff? hardly i made a thread a while ago about how much damage ES does but can't find it lol


And yet you oppose a change that limits spamming ES.  Did you read the post, or just the title?


I read it. Shadow strike with amps will 1-hot any non boss enemy pretty much and if it doens't a melee will finish them off. you get a cloak bonus no matter what and can take movement speed too. with a good weapon (wraith etc) for bosses and shadow strike for the mooks you can spc out of ES completly and its still very powerfull.

MuKen wrote...
I'm willing to bet players that think she doesn't need a buff don't play U/U.


all i play pretty much is U/U/G


I can do the same with a Javelin from a mile away. And be super effective against bosses too. Without waiting for perfect moments to strike or any risk. 

#23
Teratoid

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Wait, what nerf are you talking about OP.

Besides that, what the Shadow really needs is a fix for the stupid effing bugs that prevent her from being played properly. Chief among them, the inability to use SS when you want, as you mentioned. They've also got to fix that irritating tracking ability mobs have on her when she uses SS.

Of course, since this is Bioware,.. Took them what, 8 months to fix the Vanguard glitch? Yeah, let's see how long this takes.

#24
krizalid9999

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Shadows are fine as they are , they would be overpowered with another buff.

#25
MuKen

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upinya slayin wrote...
I read it. Shadow strike with amps will 1-hot any non boss enemy pretty much and if it doens't a melee will finish them off. you get a cloak bonus no matter what and can take movement speed too. with a good weapon (wraith etc) for bosses and shadow strike for the mooks you can spc out of ES completly and its still very powerfull.


SS animation is slow; 1-shotting non-bosses with SS is not any faster than 1 or 2-shotting them with any of the weapons other infiltrators use, plus shooting them doesn't place you in their midst.  So, with greater risk, you can achieve a similar kill rate on non-bosses.  And then with a wraith and a build that DIDN'T place every evolution and mod towards weapons damage like they did, you can do a slower kill rate on bosses.

So, you have a riskier infiltrator that kills slower.  Balance?

Modifié par MuKen, 26 novembre 2012 - 08:50 .