166 réponses à ce sujet

[najzere]

Slayer doesn't have anything to do with this. No one is asking for a Shadow melee buff and that's the only thing they have in common.

[MuKen]

Xiaolruc wrote...

If the Shadow gets a buff, then the Slayer should get one as well. Otherwise you're biased. >

I don't disagree, but I don't see what that has to do with the Shadow.

[upinya slayin]

MuKen wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...
enemy perception awareness? nice way to say not being a ******. SS is an easy button. anyone who can press 1 button can put up 100k easy on gold with no issue. it is a spammable easy button and you want to make it easier. you won't convince me that a strong easy to use power needs a buff. you make no sense. cause you can't do it right doesn't mean they should make it easier for you.

If you are spamming it, you are the one doing it wrong.  Anybody who plays the Shadow knows this.

and yes it can be risky, but landing 2 headshots on maurders after SS 1 isn't luck. its skill. its soemthing people do all the time. not everyone can land those 2 shots i know that and i don't expect them to. but if you can't don't SS into a group of 3 maurders. again its called not being a ******.

It is luck that you didn't die before you even finished the SS.  It has nothing to do with landing the shots, if you SS next to two other enemies, there is a random chance they will detect you in cloak, and 2 marauders can kill you before you finish SSing.

SS is melle not power damage. hence you can go full full weapon damage in the passive and sacrifce nothing. you sacrifice health to get a stronger SS not weapon damage. thats a fact which you are wrong on so don't bother to argue it

That melee mod on your gun is part of your kit.  Your shadow can't put both a smart choke and a hvb on her gun if she wants to keep the melee mod, which makes her worse.  Not to mention the power damage evolutions, and the fact that you are bringing a melee gear instead of a weapon gear, all of which affect SS. 

it doens't stop spaming. it means you can hit each enemy once eevry 8 seconds. big deal. it won't stop me from hitting 1 group, turnging hitting a second group then turning and hitting the 1st group again and so on. it can still be spammed at groups

If there are a continuing rotation of groups in every direction, which is hardly going to be the case most of the time.  This is an obvious damage nerf, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing now.

lol way to take the truth i said about you and try to turn it around. classic beahovir of a 10 year old kid not getting his way. everyhting you said has either been proven wrong or makes no logical sense but your too stubborn or dense to see it. If you can't face reality IDK what to tell you buddy. There are 40+ characters in teh game. If you can't figure this one out, use another or seek help and practice. don't complain a power doesn't suit your playstyle

There's nothing to turn around, you are proving my point right now.  If you believed what you were saying was right, you would not need to attack me personally.  You don't think you can prove what you are saying, so you are instead trying to discredit me hoping that will make what I am saying worse somehow.

nobody is personally attacking you. your twisting words and facts and ignoring everything i posted. your either trolling or dense. either way i can't help you and i'm done with this conversation. 

[MuKen]

upinya slayin wrote...
nobody is personally attacking you.

upinya slayin wrote...
classic beahovir of a 10 year old kid not getting his way.

your too stubborn or dense to see it

You JUST DID in your last post, who's twisting facts here?

your twisting words and facts and ignoring everything i posted.

You say that, while in the same post ignoring basically my whole post which consists of responses to what you posted before.  The irony is impressive.

Modifié par MuKen, 27 novembre 2012 - 09:19 .

[masleslie]

Hmmn?!?
I have no problem with buffing the Shadow, as one of my favorite characters that would suit me fine! But I don't think it's needed.

- I don't have a problem with having to pick targets that have no line of sight. There are usually targets with their back to you, or that you can see through cover - for the rest there is cloak. It's rare I get interupted.

-If you wait for a target with no one else around to shoot at you you will have a long wait! That is why she is so agile. I usually SS a target then immediately cartwheel out of the way so the incomming hail of bullets miss you. Do it right & you can get into cover by the time cooldown is over to SS another target.

-If you do get cornered heavy melee/melee can deal quickly with leftovers. I have taken down 2 full health canibals in one swipe before now.

-with the right character spec, weapons & mods you can effectively keep moving between targets all the while. I always feel i'm doing it wrong if I am walking around too long when there are bad guys standing.

I am no expert, i'd call myself a casual gamer. So if I can do it anyone can, it's just a very different, much more agressive mindset than you might use with other characters. And no, unless i am having a bad day the team doesn't have to keep picking me up.

[Gr1zz Dawg]

OP, I don't think the Shadow needs fixing beyond the SS glitch. There is an evolution that lets her regain shields like the BC, and her backward dodge is quick enough that they don't have to implement and auto-evade after the animation. As masleslie pointed out, something about the Shadow that alot of players do not appreciate is the speed of her dodge. That carthwheel is one of the fastest dodges in the game, and it makes her a difficult target. So TC, SS, cartwheel, ES, everyone's dead...or TC, SS, carthweel, SS, one guy is really dead. She's also one of the few characters that can get out of a Praetorian-pincer-rape scenario by using SS (again, once it doesn't ****ing glitch).

As for ES, I haven't seen anyone spam that attack in a long time and making it DoT solely, will actually weaken the Shadow. In Hack/Escort objectives, where it is imperative that you remain within a certain location, you don't wanna be a douchebag and be SS all over the stage and not contribute to the objective. This is a (common) situation where ES force and damage come in useful. However, I will agree with upinya in saying that ES is extremely powerful if you spec into it and combine it with TC....it's almost obscene the damage it can do.

The Shadow is a very good class IMO, she just has a much steeper learning curve than the average infiltrator. Alot of people (including you OP) compare her to the others and say that she's a slower, riskier infiltrator and that she lacks balance as a result. But remember not every player can use a sniper rifle...where there are many players who can destroy a battlefield using a SR, there are others who can't aim that well AND aim-assist on consoles can really make it futile to even try. The Shadow and the TGI give players an alternative playstyle, with the benefits of TC available. It's really a matter of preference (and skill)....personally I prefer the satisfying splatter of three, simultaneously beheaded cannibals.

[ryoldschool]

Gr1zz Dawg wrote...

OP, I don't think the Shadow needs fixing beyond the SS glitch. There is an evolution that lets her regain shields like the BC, and her backward dodge is quick enough that they don't have to implement and auto-evade after the animation. As masleslie pointed out, something about the Shadow that alot of players do not appreciate is the speed of her dodge. That carthwheel is one of the fastest dodges in the game, and it makes her a difficult target. So TC, SS, cartwheel, ES, everyone's dead...or TC, SS, carthweel, SS, one guy is really dead. She's also one of the few characters that can get out of a Praetorian-pincer-rape scenario by using SS (again, once it doesn't ****ing glitch).

As for ES, I haven't seen anyone spam that attack in a long time and making it DoT solely, will actually weaken the Shadow. In Hack/Escort objectives, where it is imperative that you remain within a certain location, you don't wanna be a douchebag and be SS all over the stage and not contribute to the objective. This is a (common) situation where ES force and damage come in useful. However, I will agree with upinya in saying that ES is extremely powerful if you spec into it and combine it with TC....it's almost obscene the damage it can do.

The Shadow is a very good class IMO, she just has a much steeper learning curve than the average infiltrator. Alot of people (including you OP) compare her to the others and say that she's a slower, riskier infiltrator and that she lacks balance as a result. But remember not every player can use a sniper rifle...where there are many players who can destroy a battlefield using a SR, there are others who can't aim that well AND aim-assist on consoles can really make it futile to even try. The Shadow and the TGI give players an alternative playstyle, with the benefits of TC available. It's really a matter of preference (and skill)....personally I prefer the satisfying splatter of three, simultaneously beheaded cannibals.

If you take that shield recharge feature on SS and spec any significant points into ES, I don't think you can one-hit-kill phantoms on Gold anymore.   Taking full advantage of the build, a phantom ( from full barriers and health ) will die from dot of the SS in about one second after SS completes.  If you take the drain option it drops  a 50% SS bonus ( additive ) to get that shield recharge.  I have not tried this in a long time, but I know that even taking all the SS options to kill faster, and equiping the right gear, its just enough to one-hit-kill phantoms or dragoons.  

I only recently put some points in ES because I needed some attach against collectors that would not get me killed all the time.  But it you put signigicant points into ES you have to compromise your SS capabilities, and that is really the unique part of this character because she does not play like any other infiltrator.

[Gr1zz Dawg]

Air Quotes wrote...

If that backwards dodge was as fast as Havoc's or Slayer's after a Charge then it would be fine. ut you have to wait for the SS to fully complete before having control back.

You are right in that the SS animation is drawn out...a quick stab would more than have sufficed. But to be fair, you can't really compare her dodge to the Havoc or Slayer's. There are positives and negatives on both sides...

All three dodges are quick (barring the teleport if you aren't hosting), and get the player out of range instantly. They also make the characters harder to hit. The Shadow's may be slowest, but she also has the option of being invisible, and her SS is the strongest of the three attacks. The Slayer's teleport is quicker and he can spam PD right after, but BC isn't as strong as SS and nearby enemies can detect him more easily. The Havoc's dodge is not only quick but it has an incredible distance, but HS isn't the best of the charge attacks and he doesn't really have anything that synergizes well with it, like the Slayer (PD/HM) or Shadow (TC/ES/HM).

All in all, to me it comes down to preference and playtstyle.

[mr_arizona2424]

My only issue with the Shadow is Banshee and Phantom invincibility. 1 time I did 2 Shadow strikes to a Phantom and a heavy melee and she took no damage. Then the Phantom gets me in the melee/sync-kill combo. WTF?

[Gr1zz Dawg]

ryoldschool wrote...

Gr1zz Dawg wrote...

OP, I don't think the Shadow needs fixing beyond the SS glitch. There is an evolution that lets her regain shields like the BC, and her backward dodge is quick enough that they don't have to implement and auto-evade after the animation. As masleslie pointed out, something about the Shadow that alot of players do not appreciate is the speed of her dodge. That carthwheel is one of the fastest dodges in the game, and it makes her a difficult target. So TC, SS, cartwheel, ES, everyone's dead...or TC, SS, carthweel, SS, one guy is really dead. She's also one of the few characters that can get out of a Praetorian-pincer-rape scenario by using SS (again, once it doesn't ****ing glitch).

As for ES, I haven't seen anyone spam that attack in a long time and making it DoT solely, will actually weaken the Shadow. In Hack/Escort objectives, where it is imperative that you remain within a certain location, you don't wanna be a douchebag and be SS all over the stage and not contribute to the objective. This is a (common) situation where ES force and damage come in useful. However, I will agree with upinya in saying that ES is extremely powerful if you spec into it and combine it with TC....it's almost obscene the damage it can do.

The Shadow is a very good class IMO, she just has a much steeper learning curve than the average infiltrator. Alot of people (including you OP) compare her to the others and say that she's a slower, riskier infiltrator and that she lacks balance as a result. But remember not every player can use a sniper rifle...where there are many players who can destroy a battlefield using a SR, there are others who can't aim that well AND aim-assist on consoles can really make it futile to even try. The Shadow and the TGI give players an alternative playstyle, with the benefits of TC available. It's really a matter of preference (and skill)....personally I prefer the satisfying splatter of three, simultaneously beheaded cannibals.

If you take that shield recharge feature on SS and spec any significant points into ES, I don't think you can one-hit-kill phantoms on Gold anymore.   Taking full advantage of the build, a phantom ( from full barriers and health ) will die from dot of the SS in about one second after SS completes.  If you take the drain option it drops  a 50% SS bonus ( additive ) to get that shield recharge.  I have not tried this in a long time, but I know that even taking all the SS options to kill faster, and equiping the right gear, its just enough to one-hit-kill phantoms or dragoons.  

I only recently put some points in ES because I needed some attach against collectors that would not get me killed all the time.  But it you put signigicant points into ES you have to compromise your SS capabilities, and that is really the unique part of this character because she does not play like any other infiltrator.

You are right as well...if you take the shield recharge, you have to sacrifice the DoT. Personally, I always choose Drain. I made that point to respond to the OP's suggestion that a shield recharge option should be available....I think the OP said that....I will not be going back to page one to see. The game often makes you have to choose between the two...damage or survivability/range.

That's true about sacrificing SS capabilites to get ES, which is why 3 points tends to be enough. I choose to ignore the 6th evo in N7 Shadow passive and plug those three points into ES. My reason for this is because of objectives that require keeping the enemy at bay. If you really want, you can even ignore the 5th evo in N7 Shadow...that 15% power bonus isn't really a game changer. I think upinya said previously that SS isn't a power and doesn't benefit from power evolutions...not sure if that's true or not, but the 15% in evo 5 still doesn't make a large difference. It would benefit the ES, but I think the fourth evo in ES ads a greater damage bonus.

[MichaelFinnegan]

MuKen wrote...

The number of Shadows since the last nerf has dropped tremendously, and they were hardly an overpowered class even before then.

Probably because it is boring spamming SS all day? I couldn't say. A while back I started using the Shadow on Gold, mainly vs. Cerberus for easy credits; and it mostly worked. But then it got a bit boring, real fast.

Maybe it's time I started taking her out for a spin once more, and try other factions, too...

This is a shame, since it is a pretty unique class.  It's not like other classes where if one particular variant is too weak, there are probably 2 or 3 similar classes that you can swap to with roughly the same playstyle.  I think there are two issues that need to be addressed:

1)  Shadow Strike should not get punished by the target when successful.  The power already requires you to choose enemies that are facing other players you so you won't be interrupted, and to make sure there isn't anyone else around to shoot you while attacking since it is not invincible.  This already caps the amount you can use it enough, the fact that some enemies will then proceed to mess you up after they have been successfully hit is too much.  It severely limits this power on some factions (collectors being prime on this list).

The issue seems to be how the enemy AI is designed. Hunter Mode seems to make this all the more apparent. Just try to target enemies that are in cover, behind walls, even, and that should really have no way of knowing where you are, much less know that you're targeting them; yet still they move away and hide elsewhere. It is not always Line of Sight, in my opinion, but I'm known to be wrong...

That said, I entirely disagree with your statement that the Shadow should be invulnerable after doing a successful SS. SS pretty much blatently makes you visible to the target and to everything else around, and, really, they ought to take action if able. For things that explode after destroyed (like abominations and turrets), the Shadow should not get immunity from that (maybe a DR, but not immunity). This is pretty much the reason why I spec into full damage wherever possible (I want to be able to kill the target in one SS, and I remember counting on my shield gate to protect me from collateral damage). The point should be that the inconsistency of the target knowing beforehand that you're going to SS, when in some cases that should more or less be impossible, ought to be fixed. That and the wonky camera angle after doing an SS.

Also, the fact that this then adds a need for you to wait and time your attack on some enemies, like Brutes, is at odds with the fact that the game's netcode sometimes does not allow you to use a power exactly when you wish to use it.  I'm not saying they should go back and revamp all the netcode, but I AM saying that knowing the code doesn't support precise timing of powers, you should not design powers to require precise timing.

The issue I think is the speed of the game. It's way too fast that even the slightest of lags tends to be way too costly at times. The game perhaps should have been designed keeping average peer-to-peer connection latencies in mind, if that is even possible to do.

What I suggest is that the Shadow Strike include either an automatic backstep right after the hit that brings you safely away from abominations, ravager sacs, etc.  Or that it include enough force to stagger or knock your target away from you.

Maybe a few seconds of damage reduction (40 or 50% maybe?) after a successful SS might not be too bad. At the moment, investing into shield drain on SS reduces the overall damage output, and makes the option situational (you need shields to drain, after all).

[MuKen]

Gr1zz Dawg wrote...

OP, I don't think the Shadow needs fixing beyond the SS glitch. There is an evolution that lets her regain shields like the BC, and her backward dodge is quick enough that they don't have to implement and auto-evade after the animation.

The auto-evade I suggest is for ravagers, abominations, seeker swarms, etc.  Her backward dodge does not protect her from these, and makes her a much weaker character on collectors and to a lesser degree reapers.

As for ES, I haven't seen anyone spam that attack in a long time and making it DoT solely, will actually weaken the Shadow. In Hack/Escort objectives, where it is imperative that you remain within a certain location, you don't wanna be a douchebag and be SS all over the stage and not contribute to the objective.

In such objectives, crowd control is more important than damage output.  Killing things may just cause new ones to respawn ahead of your escort, but controlling them keeps the team alive.  The return to the old cooldown will benefit her more than the loss of the damage will hurt her here.

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

That said, I entirely disagree with your statement that the Shadow should be invulnerable after doing a successful SS. SS pretty much blatently makes you visible to the target and to everything else around, and, really, they ought to take action if able.

I never wanted her to have any invulnerability, only to get away from the target so that targets like ravagers and abominations don't get to retaliate for free post-mortem.  This doesn't mean that everyone else around can't still mess you up.

Maybe a few seconds of damage reduction (40 or 50% maybe?) after a successful SS might not be too bad. At the moment, investing into shield drain on SS reduces the overall damage output, and makes the option situational (you need shields to drain, after all).

This solution compared to mine provides more protection against other enemies (which you should have been responsible for being aware of) and less protection against exploding corpses (which there is no way to avoid regardless of skill).  What I am suggesting only makes a difference on a handful of enemies.  Against cerberus, for example, it doesn't really change anything at all.

And I'm pretty sure even with max DR, a possessed abomination will still kill you, and ravager sacs will still bite into your health.

Modifié par MuKen, 27 novembre 2012 - 05:04 .

[MichaelFinnegan]

MuKen wrote...

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

That said, I entirely disagree with your statement that the Shadow should be invulnerable after doing a successful SS. SS pretty much blatently makes you visible to the target and to everything else around, and, really, they ought to take action if able.

I never wanted her to have any invulnerability, only to get away from the target so that targets like ravagers and abominations don't get to retaliate for free post-mortem.  This doesn't mean that everyone else around can't still mess you up.

Maybe a few seconds of damage reduction (40 or 50% maybe?) after a successful SS might not be too bad. At the moment, investing into shield drain on SS reduces the overall damage output, and makes the option situational (you need shields to drain, after all).

This solution compared to mine provides more protection against other enemies (which you should have been responsible for being aware of) and less protection against exploding corpses (which there is no way to avoid regardless of skill).

And I'm pretty sure even with max DR, a possessed abomination will still kill you, and ravager sacs will still bite into your health.

Well, let's look a bit closely at the two examples you give.

If the ravager's sac explodes always when you kill it, and the Shadow can't survive it because of investment into melee abilites as opposed to health and shield, maybe SS shouldn't be employed in this case anyway? On the other hand, if the ravager is somehow able to tell (prescience pretty much, even when logic dictates that it should not be able to) and pukes its goo before the SS happens, then it is a bug (or several bugs in this case) that needs fixing. I'm very much irked that the latter seems to happen at odd times.

As for the exploding abominations, I think that it is an area effect. Will the Shadow's dodge be able to prevent that? Who knows? But, then again, consider what SS counts as - as a melee ability. And when you melee a possessed abomination it always explodes (unless you allow it to grab you). It's pretty much in the mechanics, this one, I think, weird as it might sound.

The reason I thought about some kind of DR was because it's not always possible to predict the lag sometimes (as you rightly pointed out in your OP), and I think the SS which happens off host is more costly than it needs to be as a result of that. Otherwise, if things were predictable, then I wouldn't even suggest a DR... I'd be mostly content with BioWare fixing what I consider as bugs.

[shadowkinz]

Shadow strike is somewhat buggy. Other than that hreat class imo

[MuKen]

MichaelFinnegan wrote...
Well, let's look a bit closely at the two examples you give.

If the ravager's sac explodes always when you kill it, and the Shadow can't survive it because of investment into melee abilites as opposed to health and shield, maybe SS shouldn't be employed in this case anyway? On the other hand, if the ravager is somehow able to tell (prescience pretty much, even when logic dictates that it should not be able to) and pukes its goo before the SS happens, then it is a bug (or several bugs in this case) that needs fixing. I'm very much irked that the latter seems to happen at odd times.

Its also the acid it leaves on the ground when it dies, especially on Platinum, which will come pretty close to killing you before you are even done with the SS animation.

Yes, at this time, the correct answer is "don't SS this enemy", which is exactly what I find to be unbalanced.  Any other infiltrator can take down a ravager in one cycle, most with damage left to spare to use on someone else.  Shadows are just worse against reapers and collectors for this reason, and its not like they were overpowered on the two factions their abilities work fully against.

As for the exploding abominations, I think that it is an area effect. Will the Shadow's dodge be able to prevent that? Who knows? But, then again, consider what SS counts as - as a melee ability. And when you melee a possessed abomination it always explodes (unless you allow it to grab you). It's pretty much in the mechanics, this one, I think, weird as it might sound.

Many melees knock them far enough away to protect you.  As I suggested in the OP, adding some force to the SS to knock things away is reasonable too.

The reason I thought about some kind of DR was because it's not always possible to predict the lag sometimes (as you rightly pointed out in your OP), and I think the SS which happens off host is more costly than it needs to be as a result of that. Otherwise, if things were predictable, then I wouldn't even suggest a DR... I'd be mostly content with BioWare fixing what I consider as bugs.

So then doesn't fixing SS so that you move away from the target afterwards fully address the lag issue?

Modifié par MuKen, 27 novembre 2012 - 05:25 .

[Black Crisis]

Frankly I think the buff ideas would be a good change for the Shadow. I mostly do public games until my friends log on later in the evening by their pacific coast time while I'm east coast. So I've usually some time to kill doing public games. It is a class that I almost never see unless I'm playing it, or it's a gold or platinum match. Then again with the exception of the Turian Ghost I've been seeing a very steady decline in the other infiltrators including the Geth.

[Arctican]

MuKen wrote...

MichaelFinnegan wrote...
Well, let's look a bit closely at the two examples you give.

If the ravager's sac explodes always when you kill it, and the Shadow can't survive it because of investment into melee abilites as opposed to health and shield, maybe SS shouldn't be employed in this case anyway? On the other hand, if the ravager is somehow able to tell (prescience pretty much, even when logic dictates that it should not be able to) and pukes its goo before the SS happens, then it is a bug (or several bugs in this case) that needs fixing. I'm very much irked that the latter seems to happen at odd times.

Its also the acid it leaves on the ground when it dies, especially on Platinum, which will come pretty close to killing you before you are even done with the SS animation.

Yes, at this time, the correct answer is "don't SS this enemy", which is exactly what I find to be unbalanced.  Any other infiltrator can take down a ravager in one cycle, most with damage left to spare to use on someone else.  Shadows are just worse against reapers and collectors for this reason, and its not like they were overpowered on the two factions their abilities work fully against.

Don't SS the ravage means unloading whatever shotgun you're using on the ravager. Otherwise, pop the sack before you SS. Yes, the shotgun damage isn't as good as the GI shotgun let's say, but at the end of the day, the Shadow is still an infiltrator with TC. She's still going to be killing things faster than most other characters just because of that. She has an unique playstyle which involves a balanced mix of SS, TC-shotgunning, ES detonating, and heavy melees. With her armor-damage on her Sword Mastery, she's one of my go to characters for Reapers and Collectors. Doing over 5000 damage to armor per hit is nothing to laugh at. She doesn't need a buff, just maybe a few tweaks to her SS mechanics and nothing more.

[MichaelFinnegan]

MuKen wrote...

MichaelFinnegan wrote...
Well, let's look a bit closely at the two examples you give.

If the ravager's sac explodes always when you kill it, and the Shadow can't survive it because of investment into melee abilites as opposed to health and shield, maybe SS shouldn't be employed in this case anyway? On the other hand, if the ravager is somehow able to tell (prescience pretty much, even when logic dictates that it should not be able to) and pukes its goo before the SS happens, then it is a bug (or several bugs in this case) that needs fixing. I'm very much irked that the latter seems to happen at odd times.

Its also the acid it leaves on the ground when it dies, especially on Platinum, which will come pretty close to killing you before you are even done with the SS animation.

Yes, at this time, the correct answer is "don't SS this enemy", which is exactly what I find to be unbalanced.  Any other infiltrator can take down a ravager in one cycle, most with damage left to spare to use on someone else.  Shadows are just worse against reapers and collectors for this reason, and its not like they were overpowered on the two factions their abilities work fully against.

As I said earlier, I haven't had much experience with the Shadow either with Reapers or Collectors on Gold or higher. So I'll take your word for it. I do need to take her out for a spin soon, when I find time to play.

The thing is though that we cannot debate on how one class is unbalanced compared to another based on how it performs against a particular type of enemy (ravagers in this case). I'd argue that it's very difficult to say how exactly one can compare two classes, overall - I think it'd be a much better exercise to define a purpose for a class and see how well it holds good to that, but that's another matter. What I mean to say is that I could just as well state that I can take down a phantom very easily (and cheaply, I must add) with a Shadow just with SS than with any other infiltrator.

As for the exploding abominations, I think that it is an area effect. Will the Shadow's dodge be able to prevent that? Who knows? But, then again, consider what SS counts as - as a melee ability. And when you melee a possessed abomination it always explodes (unless you allow it to grab you). It's pretty much in the mechanics, this one, I think, weird as it might sound.

Many melees knock them far enough away to protect you.  As I suggested in the OP, adding some force to the SS to knock things away is reasonable too.

Do those melees also kill the said abomination? SS is strong enough to take out an equivalent of 10 abominations at once (an exaggeration, to be sure). The thing is I guess (if you're referring to Krogan or Batarian heavy melee), then those classes have higher health and shields to protect them.

I forget now. Do the abominations explode after a while or immediately upon death?

The reason I thought about some kind of DR was because it's not always possible to predict the lag sometimes (as you rightly pointed out in your OP), and I think the SS which happens off host is more costly than it needs to be as a result of that. Otherwise, if things were predictable, then I wouldn't even suggest a DR... I'd be mostly content with BioWare fixing what I consider as bugs.

So then doesn't fixing SS so that you move away from the target afterwards fully address the lag issue?

Well maybe, but I can think of some corners where this could become rather dicey. For example, when an enemy is backed up against a wall, then you end up SS'ing on the face rather than the back. So, if the enemy is rather close to a wall, where will you dodge to?

Anyway, perhaps the dodge might work in many cases. I'll admit. Not a bad idea. Maybe the SS needs to be a bit faster also - it's slow at the moment.

[DJ Airsurfer]

krizalid9999 wrote...

Shadows are fine as they are , they would be overpowered with another buff.

Oh, how I love people talking out of their ass. Betcha none of you even play the Shadow too.

[MuKen]

MichaelFinnegan wrote...
The thing is though that we cannot debate on how one class is unbalanced compared to another based on how it performs against a particular type of enemy (ravagers in this case). I'd argue that it's very difficult to say how exactly one can compare two classes, overall - I think it'd be a much better exercise to define a purpose for a class and see how well it holds good to that, but that's another matter. What I mean to say is that I could just as well state that I can take down a phantom very easily (and cheaply, I must add) with a Shadow just with SS than with any other infiltrator.

For a single enemy, maybe, but a weakness against a faction seems excessive.  Try a few matches against them and let me know what you think.

Do those melees also kill the said abomination? SS is strong enough to take out an equivalent of 10 abominations at once (an exaggeration, to be sure). The thing is I guess (if you're referring to Krogan or Batarian heavy melee), then those classes have higher health and shields to protect them.

I forget now. Do the abominations explode after a while or immediately upon death?

Yes, they kill them.  They wait a bit before exploding, but since SS has so much recovery you don't have time to get away.

Well maybe, but I can think of some corners where this could become rather dicey. For example, when an enemy is backed up against a wall, then you end up SS'ing on the face rather than the back. So, if the enemy is rather close to a wall, where will you dodge to?

Anyway, perhaps the dodge might work in many cases. I'll admit. Not a bad idea. Maybe the SS needs to be a bit faster also - it's slow at the moment.

Hm, I had not considered that.  Perhaps some force AND a backdash.  Force for the abominations, backdash for the ravagers.

[MichaelFinnegan]

Arctican wrote...

Don't SS the ravage means unloading whatever shotgun you're using on the ravager. Otherwise, pop the sack before you SS. Yes, the shotgun damage isn't as good as the GI shotgun let's say, but at the end of the day, the Shadow is still an infiltrator with TC. She's still going to be killing things faster than most other characters just because of that. She has an unique playstyle which involves a balanced mix of SS, TC-shotgunning, ES detonating, and heavy melees. With her armor-damage on her Sword Mastery, she's one of my go to characters for Reapers and Collectors. Doing over 5000 damage to armor per hit is nothing to laugh at. She doesn't need a buff, just maybe a few tweaks to her SS mechanics and nothing more.

I found the most effecient way to play her was actually to keep enemies off the backs of my team mates. The team would focus on the heavier units or on spawns when I'd obliterate any threats to them - this usually meant going after phantoms, dragoons, even when they come in packs. The trick is to look at the periphery of the spawns, and hack your way in.

Anyway, in one match I found her to beautifully synergize with a nova vanguard. The nova guard would stagger a whole group of dragoons and phantoms, while I took them out one by one. There was nothing left after 20 seconds or so. Not so much a heavy scorer, but it usually resulted in sub 20-25 minute games.

[capn233]

MuKen wrote...

And I'm pretty sure even with max DR, a possessed abomination will still kill you, and ravager sacs will still bite into your health.

If you just mean in general game max DR, then no a possessed abomination will not kill you.

You can test this with something like a Batarian Vanguard spec'd for Blade Armor.  Find a possessed abomination that is near death, and then charge into heavy melee.  Charge should kill it, causing it to explode, but you will take little to no damage depending on the exact blade armor spec.

Modifié par capn233, 27 novembre 2012 - 06:09 .

[MichaelFinnegan]

MuKen wrote...

For a single enemy, maybe, but a weakness against a faction seems excessive.  Try a few matches against them and let me know what you think.

Not against a full faction, no. Agreed.

And, sure. Perhaps I can PM you on the results later.

Yes, they kill them.  They wait a bit before exploding, but since SS has so much recovery you don't have time to get away.

The recovery is slow and the camera angles are not very good after an SS. Either I end up looking at the ceiling or at the floor.

Hm, I had not considered that.  Perhaps some force AND a backdash.  Force for the abominations, backdash for the ravagers.

My guess would be some kind of dodge and DR (shield gate ought to be able to protect against abominations, in my opinion). I don't think BW can code it differently for different enemies, though...