166 réponses à ce sujet

[FeralJester616]

Only thing the Shadow needs is her Shadow Strike fixed so it can be used against Atlases again.

Pretty sure this is the biggest reason for the decline in shadows...

[WMcAlister]

I like the recommended reworking of Electric Slash. But wouldn't the Force of the power be enough to keep 'less creative' players spamming it like mad, regardless of the nonstacking DoTs?

[Gr1zz Dawg]

MuKen wrote...

Gr1zz Dawg wrote...

OP, I don't think the Shadow needs fixing beyond the SS glitch. There is an evolution that lets her regain shields like the BC, and her backward dodge is quick enough that they don't have to implement and auto-evade after the animation.

The auto-evade I suggest is for ravagers, abominations, seeker swarms, etc.  Her backward dodge does not protect her from these, and makes her a much weaker character on collectors and to a lesser degree reapers.

As for ES, I haven't seen anyone spam that attack in a long time and making it DoT solely, will actually weaken the Shadow. In Hack/Escort objectives, where it is imperative that you remain within a certain location, you don't wanna be a douchebag and be SS all over the stage and not contribute to the objective.

In such objectives, crowd control is more important than damage output.  Killing things may just cause new ones to respawn ahead of your escort, but controlling them keeps the team alive.  The return to the old cooldown will benefit her more than the loss of the damage will hurt her here.

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

That said, I entirely disagree with your statement that the Shadow should be invulnerable after doing a successful SS. SS pretty much blatently makes you visible to the target and to everything else around, and, really, they ought to take action if able.

I never wanted her to have any invulnerability, only to get away from the target so that targets like ravagers and abominations don't get to retaliate for free post-mortem.  This doesn't mean that everyone else around can't still mess you up.

Maybe a few seconds of damage reduction (40 or 50% maybe?) after a successful SS might not be too bad. At the moment, investing into shield drain on SS reduces the overall damage output, and makes the option situational (you need shields to drain, after all).

This solution compared to mine provides more protection against other enemies (which you should have been responsible for being aware of) and less protection against exploding corpses (which there is no way to avoid regardless of skill).  What I am suggesting only makes a difference on a handful of enemies.  Against cerberus, for example, it doesn't really change anything at all.

And I'm pretty sure even with max DR, a possessed abomination will still kill you, and ravager sacs will still bite into your health.

Yes but the speed that ravagers pop and abominations explode, the backward dodge would have to almost cancel the strike itself. If you notice, when she is damaged by ravager acid or abomination pops, it happens before she even puts away her sword.

Also, like with many many other powers in the game, there will always be some instances where a certain power is not an optimal. For instance, one does not attempt to stasis a pyro, or pull a ravager, or melee a glowing banshee thats on your level, or do a biotic bubble where noone is around, or set up a Geth sentry turret speccd for shield regeneration in the middle of a swarm, etc. etc. The penalty for doing such a hugely powerful attack on the wrong enemy results in loss of life. Also, FYI, if you heavy melee an abomination or a possessed abomination, the Shadow will behead them, thereby negating the explosion. Most classes do not have that ability.

As for ES, if I remember your suggestion to reduce spamming, you said make it an 8 second non-stackable DoT power....I imagine you mean that the power would still have the force to push enemies away. How would that stop spamming? Players will most definitely keep doing it because DoT attacks are not weakened by anything. ES as it is now, is not as effective against Armor as it is against life and shields...if you redistribute it's power from being one hit to being DoT, it'll have to ignore armor, thereby making it more powerful. Also remember that it if isn't stackable, it'll just reset everytime the enemy gets hit with it. And if it keeps the force it has now and the old cooldown, players will be spam it just the same because it keeps enemies away and off their feet, whilst still doing DoT. 

[MuKen]

Gr1zz Dawg wrote...

Yes but the speed that ravagers pop and abominations explode, the backward dodge would have to almost cancel the strike itself. If you notice, when she is damaged by ravager acid or abomination pops, it happens before she even puts away her sword.

They kill her during the recovery after the slash (even if the ravager acid comes out right away, it takes time to eat your shields).  If right after the slash, she did the same recovery but further back, she would be fine.

Also, like with many many other powers in the game, there will always be some instances where a certain power is not an optimal.

Granted, but my point was that on that faction at least, even when she is getting frequent opportunities to SS, she is at best matching other infiltrators and more often lagging behind.  The fact that several enemies are off limits only further hampers her.  What in this faction is SS particularly GOOD at killing?

As for ES, if I remember your suggestion to reduce spamming, you said make it an 8 second non-stackable DoT power....I imagine you mean that the power would still have the force to push enemies away. How would that stop spamming?

My goal, and I believe Bioware's, was not to make it so that there is no reason to spam ever.  It is to put a cap on the "style" of just camping at a wall doing ES over and over.  If players do this under my proposed change, they will bottom the scoreboards by a fair amount.

Players will most definitely keep doing it because DoT attacks are not weakened by anything. ES as it is now, is not as effective against Armor as it is against life and shields...if you redistribute it's power from being one hit to being DoT, it'll have to ignore armor, thereby making it more powerful.

The loss of spammable direct damage will hamper its damage against armor more than the gain from negating armor resistance.

 

Also remember that it if isn't stackable, it'll just reset everytime the enemy gets hit with it. And if it keeps the force it has now and the old cooldown, players will be spam it just the same because it keeps enemies away and off their feet, whilst still doing DoT. 

Having there be situations (like hack and escort objectives as you pointed out) where it is good to spam it for crowd control, allowing your teammates to finish people off, is a good teamwork mechanic.  You could even further the teamwork aspect by making the DoT comboable so it can do damage if you are working with someone else.

A long-running dot is hardly effective at killing things solo, you don't see people trying to warp things to death with just that power.

Modifié par MuKen, 27 novembre 2012 - 10:04 .

[BigSmellyBob]

FeralJester616 wrote...

Only thing the Shadow needs is her Shadow Strike fixed so it can be used against Atlases again.

Pretty sure this is the biggest reason for the decline in shadows...

[MuKen]

Because lots of shadows were just queueing cerberus all day long? Actually, I could believe that is true.

[Doni]

I'd say the only buff she needs is stagger immunity while shadow striking or meleeing.

Oh, and also make it so when you kill a brute using a shadow strike, you don't instantly use your shields because of the brute recoiling backwards.

Without the stagger immunity, the shadow has few good options when fighting reapers.

Modifié par Scruffaluphagus, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:52 .

[Titus Thongger]

needs some invulnerability frames

[Atheosis]

There's nothing wrong with the Shadow other than Electric Slash's inability to function at angles.

[MuKen]

Scruffaluphagus wrote...

Oh, and also make it so when you kill a brute using a shadow strike, you don't instantly use your shields because of the brute recoiling backwards.

That is basically what I suggested in the first post for SS.

[Misfiring]

Just fix the SS Atlas bug first before talking about balance.

[shepskisaac]

Wait you want to buff the character capable of killing 2 phantoms in 5 sec without mad shooting skills ???

Modifié par IsaacShep, 28 novembre 2012 - 11:02 .

[MuKen]

IsaacShep wrote...

Wait you want to buff the character capable of killing 2 phantoms in 5 sec without mad shooting skills ???

Because there are no phantoms in the collector faction?  The change I suggested for SS has practically no effect against Cerberus, and the ES change is a retooling, it has both plusses and negatives.

Please read the post itself and respond to it if you want to say anything, not just the title.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I support your ideas.

[MuKen]

bump

[himegoto]

#1
Yes. They should not get tracked and shot when traveling for the SS, and then get grabbed the moment they decloak.

I can hardly call that giving Shadows a buff, it's more bad design and flawed game codes to begin with.

[MuKen]

himegoto wrote...

#1
Yes. They should not get tracked and shot when traveling for the SS, and then get grabbed the moment they decloak.

I can hardly call that giving Shadows a buff, it's more bad design and flawed game codes to begin with.

Fixing a class' shortcomings is buffing it...