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Human Colony on Mars?


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#51
Jozape

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RedArmyShogun wrote...

Theoretical. That means they don't have a drive, or working plans. Nothing. At best it will be a spread sheet the US will sell to China in a few years.

I can say I have the plans to build a deathstar. That doesn't mean I can, or that it will even work. Its like early airplane designs, whats "theoretical" doesn't work till its actully been tested. Ah well it seems nasa is content to let Space-X and the like carry the torch.


I am amazed that you believed I meant they had a working warp drive.

#52
RedArmyShogun

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Jozape wrote...

Arcadian Legend wrote...

^ Didn't the 'Merican government take most of NASA's funding away some time back? Last I remember they had to do things like baking drives and other local town events just to shore up enough money for a project.


Yes. Project Constellation was cancelled 2 or 3 years ago, the Space Shuttle program was canceled a year ago, and NASA lost much funding. NASA's situation is relatively sad now. The good news is NASA is still developing FTL technology. They recently reduced the amount of energy required to a feasible amount, but they still have to figure out how not to obliterate the destination.


No see, lets break it down.

Nasa is developing FTL.

Later you say its theoretical. However in this statement you treat it as fact.

TWO

Reduced the amount of energy needed. For one, as its acedemic, they have no idea how much is needed short of guess work. Saying they reduced the amount implies they have a working drive, or the knowhow to do such. Nevermind the whole obliteration part. Or fuel, power, etc.

So no I didn't treat it as fact, but you in some sort of magical Super Power USA vision treated what amounts to a work paper as a real program. The US military has documents drawn up for an invasion of Canada, with the fantastic reading skills you have I'm positive you'ld be posting "OMG MERICA IS COM'N FER CANADA".

So do be careful with your lack of fact checking and making claims out of nationalistic pride. Da Comrade?

Modifié par RedArmyShogun, 12 janvier 2013 - 01:49 .


#53
Jozape

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RedArmyShogun wrote...

Jozape wrote...

Arcadian Legend wrote...

^ Didn't the 'Merican government take most of NASA's funding away some time back? Last I remember they had to do things like baking drives and other local town events just to shore up enough money for a project.


Yes. Project Constellation was cancelled 2 or 3 years ago, the Space Shuttle program was canceled a year ago, and NASA lost much funding. NASA's situation is relatively sad now. The good news is NASA is still developing FTL technology. They recently reduced the amount of energy required to a feasible amount, but they still have to figure out how not to obliterate the destination.


No see, lets break it down.

Nasa is developing FTL.

Later you say its theoretical. However in this statement you treat it as fact.


Development was clearly the wrong word to use. That is why I corrected myself by stating it is research. I am still amazed you did not realize what I meant, considering I implied in an earlier post that NASA had yet to develop a functioning warp drive.

And I certainly do not consider these things to be facts.

Reduced the amount of energy needed. For one, as its acedemic, they have no idea how much is needed short of guess work. Saying they reduced the amount implies they have a working drive, or the knowhow to do such. Nevermind the whole obliteration part. Or fuel, power, etc.


In theory they the reduced the amount of energy needed. I apologize for my lack of clarification before.

So no I didn't treat it as fact, but you in some sort of magical Super Power USA vision treated what amounts to a work paper as a real program. The US military has documents drawn up for an invasion of Canada, with the fantastic reading skills you have I'm positive you'ld be posting "OMG MERICA IS COM'N FER CANADA".


Your projections into me are amusing.

So do be careful with your lack of fact checking and making claims out of nationalistic pride. Da Comrade?


I do not have a lack of fact checking. NASA's claims are a matter of fact. You can find them through Google. Whether or not NASA's claims are factual is another discussion.

And I am making no claims out of nationalistic pride. That is something you invented in your head.

#54
RedArmyShogun

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I looked up the links and in almost all of them I find this.

"there is hope" of such a drive.

And I find it funny most of the reports are from around the crunch time....it can't be a money grab, naw..

And no I knew from sqaure one. However other people might not, and I don't mind pulling your face into your mistake. The smell of **** is the only thing that teaches some folks.

Reguardless there is one huge problem. The US out of greed and stupitiy I question if it would even have the means to build something of that scale. Where it would get the money, and lastly, this is something I doubt will be around for another 100 years or better. Or ever if left to the US government. Also nevermind the cardinal rule of Einstein’s relativity.

So go to jail, do not pass go. Do not collect 200 dollars.

Modifié par RedArmyShogun, 12 janvier 2013 - 02:18 .


#55
vortex216

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maybe if the risk was low (not tiny), we had communication to earth, and video games were up there. I mean, come on. Sosciety SUCKS!

#56
TheClonesLegacy

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Once I take over Earth (Which I shall rename as Terran), Mars will be my next Target, so I'll go there eventually, for free, with the ability to go back home.

Modifié par TheClonesLegacy, 13 janvier 2013 - 02:54 .


#57
RedArmyShogun

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vortex216 wrote...

maybe if the risk was low (not tiny), we had communication to earth, and video games were up there. I mean, come on. Sosciety SUCKS!



As I said I'm planning to sign up, though I suspect I'll end up working with the ground crew if at all. So I've gotten there mail for awhile now.

Anyways commincation will be possible. However there are some kinks. Given the huge distance it would take 7 minutes for a signal to bounce back, it is possible in the future to shorten the time with SATCOM's being deployed along the way to bounce the single, but thats long term.

In short you will have the net, movies, whatever. As honestly they don't want folks snapping. So you can order movies (maybe games) in advance that will then be data dumped in wireless format. And you will be able to look at a few sites of your choice in faster than normal time (basically more like a news paper where most of what you see is hours old) by dumping the data in down times.

On the other hand while you can pretty much look at anything, do anything, time will  be a killer.

Like it would take me a total of 21 minutes to make a post here. First I have to click the thread, then the reply button, then I have to submit. All in all each part of that takes me 7 minutes.So as you can see even with the best speed connection possible via space, the time lag is significant.

Anyways as to safety, its being aimed to make it as safe as possible. You have to remember space exploration takes the "right stuff".

Your setting your ass on top of a giant bomb waiting to see if you or its going up, traveling in the blackness of space with no O2 or warmth at all, with a foot of material between you and death.

Nevermind landing on an unknown world and building things up like its a game of minecraft. I mean I would trust it as much as I would getting on a plane. In both cases you won't know when you die if lucky.

Modifié par RedArmyShogun, 13 janvier 2013 - 03:09 .


#58
MASSEFFECTfanforlife101

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2023? WHY $500,000 PER TICKET? That is an UNFAIR price for the Middle class and the Lower class. Why only allow the Wealthy to take part in something like that? When I was growing up, I always wanted to travel in Space, but it really sucks how something like that can be taken away so easily by the rich. Typical. If the World were to end, who do think will be saved first? The rich.

It's Unfair that the Middle class and the Lower class has to be stuck on Earth.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 13 janvier 2013 - 03:14 .


#59
Giant ambush beetle

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Jozape wrote...

Mars is a ball of dust with a weak gravitational field. Mars is not a good place for growing kids.


Ah,now this reminds me of an excellent song: Rocket Man

Besides the fact that a colony there would be little more than a death trap I see no reason to colonize Mars, we may have the technology but it doesn't make a lot of sense to colonize a dead barren cold rock simply because we can. We have rovers to discover this planets secrets.

I'd rather see plans to colonize one of Jupiter's moons like Europa, a planet that may have a huge liquid ocean underneath its miles-thick icy shell. Liquid methane / water? There could be life!

#60
MASSEFFECTfanforlife101

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Why is the Ticket Price so damn high? Why should the rich snobs be the only people to have a chance to take part of an historic event? I don't want to be stuck on this planet all my life.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 13 janvier 2013 - 03:28 .


#61
Giant ambush beetle

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MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Why is the Ticket Price so damn high? Why should the rich snobs be the only people to have a chance to take part of an historic event? I don't want to be stuck on this planet all my life.


I don't see anything wrong with exiling some egoistic moneybags to a barren rock in space with no return ticket. I wish the colony was bigger so it would accept more or even all of them. :D Its little more than a death trap in disguise targeting the rich.

Modifié par The Woldan , 13 janvier 2013 - 03:28 .


#62
MASSEFFECTfanforlife101

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Yeah, but, Space Travel should be available for everyone. Why take it away? Why is the Ticket price so damn high? Is NASA ever going to answer that question? I mean, how will they answer that question?

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 13 janvier 2013 - 03:29 .


#63
RedArmyShogun

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Thats another program. And not for mars (500k thing) and thats damn cheap given the Russians and others have been charging MILLIONS. That ticket price is in reguards to space X's local launches, which still not anyone can just do. To copy my old AI's

"Shoes cost money you big ass dummy" in this case rocket fuel.  Reguardless the first mission is set to be in 2016 or so, with antoher every 2 years after till 2030's  when infastructer should allow for more and larger missions.

And there are several mars programs underway at this time. The one I'm planning on applying for costs nothing requires 7 years of training and is permant. Unless you get ground crew work. And Mars will make a great supply depot for reaching out elsewhere plus resources.

As to why Mars?

There are a number of reasons to travel to Mars. I'll qoute a faq.

The first is the realization of an amazing dream! Sending a manned mission to Mars is a fantastic adventure. Imagine living on another planet, millions of miles from the Earth; looking up into the sky with the knowledge that one of the 'stars' is actually the planet you were born on. Who can even envision the incredible feeling of being the first human in history to step out of the capsule and leave your footprint on the surface of Mars? By this we implore you to not just think of that feeling for the astronaut, but the experience for all those watching back home. Those who observed Neil Armstrong land on the Moon all those years ago still remember every detail – where they were, who they were with and how they felt. This will be our moment, in 2023.

A second reason is good, old-fashioned curiosity. Where did Mars come from? Can it teach us about Earth's history? Is there life on Mars? These are just three of the hundreds of burning questions for scientists all over the world.

Thirdly: progress. You could say that sending people to Mars is 'the next giant leap for mankind'. This mission will jumpstart massive developments in all kinds of areas, a few examples being in recycling, solar energy, food production and the advancement of medical technology.


Why Mars? Why not another planet?

After the Earth, Mars is the most habitable planet in our solar system. Its soil contains water and it isn't too cold or too hot. There is enough sunlight to use solar panels and its gravity is 38% that of our Earth's, which is believed by many to be sufficient for the human body to adapt to in a healthy fashion. It has an atmosphere, albeit a thin one, that offers protection from cosmic and the Sun's radiation. An important point is also the day/night rhythm, which is very similar to ours here on Earth: a Mars day is 24 hours, 39 minutes and 35 seconds.

The only other two celestial bodies in orbits near the Earth are our Moon and Venus. There are far fewer vital resources on the Moon, and a Moon day takes, well, a month. It also does not have an atmosphere to form a barrier against radiation. Venus is a veritable purgatory. The average temperature is over 400 degrees, the barometric pressure is that of 900 meters underwater on Earth, and the cherry on top comes in the form of occasional bouts of acid rain. It also has nights that last for 120 days. Humans cannot live on Mars without the help of technology, but compared to Venus it's paradise!

Modifié par RedArmyShogun, 13 janvier 2013 - 04:20 .


#64
Giant ambush beetle

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MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Yeah, but, Space Travel should be available for everyone. Why take it away? Why is the Ticket price so damn high? Is NASA ever going to answer that question? I mean, how will they answer that question?


Because space travel is OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive?

A second reason is good, old-fashioned curiosity. Where did Mars come from?
Can it teach us about Earth's history? Is there life on Mars? These are just three of the hundreds of burning questions for scientists all over the world.

We already know the answers to that questions, we know Mars' history. To look for water we already have rovers, we don't need humans up there, they can't do more than what rover can.

Modifié par The Woldan , 13 janvier 2013 - 03:34 .


#65
Ghost Lightning

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If we had elected Newt Gingrich he would have worked to give us a colony on the moon. The old dirty bastard said so.

Nice job America. Now we're stuck on Earth.

#66
MASSEFFECTfanforlife101

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The Woldan wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Yeah, but, Space Travel should be available for everyone. Why take it away? Why is the Ticket price so damn high? Is NASA ever going to answer that question? I mean, how will they answer that question?


Because space travel is OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive?


Expensive for NASA. It shouldn't be for a civilian. NASA pretty much screwed the Middle and Lower classes over. We'd be screwed over anyway if the World were to end, and if there was a way to save humanity.

#67
ObserverStatus

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Does the whole concept of putting a colony on Mars seem a bit silly to anyone else? If people insist on living somewhere far off, exotic, and completely impractical, is there anything that would make Antarctica a less suitable place for habitation than Mars?

#68
RedArmyShogun

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Yes. Massive windstorms, freezing cold, the fact the ground might melt from under you, antartica is actully pretty damn hostile, only advantage it has is air. Space is the future. Be it Mars, the Moon, space stations. You can stay on Earth or visit the penquins if you like. For some folks they want to be rid of the Earth Governments and societies. Its the same as why people went from Europe to America. The Earth has gotten too small to allow that option. Or rather our reach too far.

I mean I'm no fool, all of these options mean living in domes, or would take at least 100 years for any massive changes in the case of mars, and 15 in the case of a station habitate. Simple fact is looking at whats going on with the earth, from resources to the weather.

How long till the whole Earth is hostile because of us?

Modifié par RedArmyShogun, 13 janvier 2013 - 03:40 .


#69
Atalanta

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bobobo878 wrote...
Does the whole concept of putting a colony on Mars seem a bit silly to anyone else? If people insist on living somewhere far off, exotic, and completely impractical, is there anything that would make Antarctica a less suitable place for habitation than Mars?


That's ... not the point. The point is that they're offering up a chance to be a part of humanity's first steps towards space exploration and colonization.  Mars is as good a place as any to start - it's rich in accessible chemical elements needed for silicon (hello, solar panels!), and deuterium. It's a much more practical choice than the moon would be.

Anyway, if an organization like MarsOne asked me to come, I wouldn't even hesitate. I'd be packing my bags before they finished talking! Where's your sense of adventure, people?

Modifié par Atalanta, 13 janvier 2013 - 04:53 .


#70
Jozape

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MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

2023? WHY $500,000 PER TICKET?


Sending people to Mars is expensive.

That is an UNFAIR price for the Middle class and the Lower class. Why only allow the Wealthy to take part in something like that?


500,000 USD is a bargain if you are only look at it from a monetary perspective. Is it unfair only people who have 500,000 USD sitting around will be to afford a ticket to another planet? Yes. Life is necessarily unfair.

When I was growing up, I always wanted to travel in Space, but it really sucks how something like that can be taken away so easily by the rich. Typical. If the World were to end, who do think will be saved first? The rich.


Keep in mind traveling in space will cost significantly less than going to Mars; however, if your intent is to spend months traveling through space, I believe you will discover more than a brief travel to space to be either very boring or very exciting in the wrong ways. And what do you mean by 'if the world were to end'?

RedArmyShogun wrote...

Yes. Massive windstorms, freezing cold,


How is that different from Mars?

the fact the ground might melt from under you,


The actual ground will not melt. The ice could melt, yes. Your dome on Mars could also fail.

antartica is actully pretty damn hostile, only advantage it has is air.


Antarctica also has liquid water, food, Earth gravity, access to Earth's continents and oceans and their resources, a safer atmosphere, etc. Claiming the only advantage of Antarctica is air is absurd.

You can stay on Earth or visit the penquins if you like. For some folks they want to be rid of the Earth Governments and societies.


You will have to deal with governments and people when you go to Mars, unless you go by yourself.

How long till the whole Earth is hostile because of us?


The whole of Mars is hostile.

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Expensive for NASA. It shouldn't be for a civilian. NASA pretty much screwed the Middle and Lower classes over. We'd be screwed over anyway if the World were to end, and if there was a way to save humanity.


NASA is not SpaceX.

#71
RedArmyShogun

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Jozap, you seem pretty dense. So let me say why Mars is the better option in terms even a simpleton can understand.

Antartica and Mars. Much in common no? Well minus Mars can get very hot as well. Both have harshness to them. In the case of Antartica however, terraforming and greenhouse gases being added in to make it liveable isn't a good idea, as you know we can't limited the spread of it to just that area. Nevermind the ice melting.

Two a Springboard into space is needed. Launches constantly from Earth is pricey. And our Resources are in most terms nearing the breaking point or rather points needing VERY expensive means to grab. The moon no matter what is done can't support a stable population, unless we make some sort of grav field generator. Something I doubt we will see for a long time. The Moon also it seems only has H3 in massive amounts and so would make for a nice Fuel Depot, if not a location for in the long run an orbital construction facility.

The Question remains where to get, mine, and break down these materials. Mars is the answer. Its own national resources should equal our own, it has Ice, an atmosphere, and a gravity much like our own needing little adaption. Plus it makes a useful first step on terraforming, and only takes at current speeds 6-9 months to reach. The Jupiter Moons would take SEVEN YEARS. YEARS, not months. And require even more effort and have even less gravity.

At the same time you have the Asteriod Field near Mars, which has some rocks that contain more materials than humans have mined in all of its history. By allowing Mars to also handle the break down of the resources, plus a few controlled impacts, you could in theory start the martian mantel back into action jump starting its magnetic field, while at the same time processing the ores in factories on mars allows for the pumping of green house gasses, on a global scale, thus building up the martian atmosphere and making non dome habitation more and more possible with each passing year.

The above is NOT possible with Antartica unless you want to **** over most of the planet for it. Mars also contains the resources to allow for natural agriculture. Antartica does not. In short Mars could easily be made into a 2nd home, an industrial and agircultural world, that can act as a springboard to ventures elsewhere.

In place of being such a negitive ass hat maybe you should try and see that. And before you go in with "well drones and Machines" Earth is a target, and the greenhouse effect is playing hell with us, and I doubt we have a way to stop it, or reverse it. Nevermind its likely some day or another a huge rock will slam into us, we are also being pressed for space. So in place of worrying and pointing out why such and such can't be done, you should spend your time thinking on what CAN be done.

For me space and Mars is that Answer.

As to your Government talk. Yes a government made up of those who chose to go there, and have the same vision, rather than selfish **** heads who waste our few resources just to earn votes while driving the whole of humanity to a new global war. Self determination is far better to have than the so called "democracies" of this world, who's only freedoms are shackless for all, and where a small few try and force there will upon all. Maybe it won't change anything. But unless we try we'll never know.

And don't bother replying I'm sure it will be the same stupid short sighted crap as always.


As a final edit to your position and maybe others, who want to wait till we have the technology to go someplace more of your liking.

What if we never do? What if its not in your life time? Its better to go with what you have, and what you can do. No matter how hard. When you get better things use them, learn as you go. Maybe you'll fail. But if you wait on that cake....when you finally get it, it might be coverd in mold. And the taste bitter. I've seen many people who go "well things arn't bad enough yet to need it"

When it is bad enough, where in the flying hell will the resources come from? Do you think we'll really stop killing each other for some last ditch teamwork? Its the tale of the grass hopper and the Ant. Too many grasshoppers live in this world.

Modifié par RedArmyShogun, 13 janvier 2013 - 03:29 .


#72
Naughty Bear

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Send the British parliament there and keep fingers crossed the Thing like incident happens.

#73
vortex216

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MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Yeah, but, Space Travel should be available for everyone. Why take it away? Why is the Ticket price so damn high? Is NASA ever going to answer that question? I mean, how will they answer that question?


I don't know? Maybe cuz your going to another planet?!
(I dont wanna be rude, but blerf! It's not that hard to figure out space travel=lots of money)

Modifié par vortex216, 13 janvier 2013 - 05:00 .


#74
Huntress

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DarkDragon777 wrote...

>Implying there are 80,000 people who can just unload $500,000 out of their pockets.


Read the "old" news

A wealth report performed by the Huran Report and GroupM Knowledge was released yesterday analyzing China’s staggering number of millionaires and
“super-rich.”
There are now 1,020,000 millionaires in China–a national record–and 63,500 “super-rich” Chinese.

To be classified as a millionaire, the report stated the individual
must possess more than RMB 10-million, or US$1.6-million, while a “super-rich” individual required RMB 100-million (US$16-million) or more.

• The average Chinese millionaire is 39 years old, and 60% of them are male. They have, on average, two private bank accounts, three cars, and 4.2 luxury watches.
They spend eight days a month on business trips and go on three international trips per year.
• 50% of Chinese millionaires are business owners, 20% are
professional investors, and 15% each are real estate investors and
high-level senior executives.

The answer  is: YES. They'll find people who will pay for the trip.

Modifié par Huntress, 13 janvier 2013 - 05:47 .


#75
ME_Fan

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If it's privately funded and feasible, then go for it I suppose. The problem I have is when organisations like NASA and the ESA waste taxpayers' money on completely useless or unproductive projects which will never actually benefit anyone. If it's a private expedition, however, sure, why the hell not? If someone's stupid enough to go and live their entire life on a cold, dead, rock, then go for it.

What's interesting for me though is, hypothetically, if large numbers of humans do settle the red planet, how they would construct the new society and how it would be structured politically. It would need it's own police force pretty much from the start, because I can imagine that it would be quite easy to lose one's mind out there. But there are no laws in space or on other terrestrial bodies other than Earth as of yet, so maybe some kind of Mass Effect esque extra terrestrial parliament/ Justice system would be set up. Who knows?

Modifié par ME_Fan, 13 janvier 2013 - 05:49 .