202 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredward]

The Hierophant wrote...
Plaintiff what's the deal with that Africa analogy? It completely ignores how colonialism is a major catalyst for most of it's conflicts, and that the whole of the continent is not a civil war ridden 3rd world s***hole it's typecasted to be in Western media.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. It's verging on "OHEMGEE SO OFFENSIVE" status now. I'd just drop it.

[GodWood]

Plaintiff wrote...
Australia is not an expansionist or subjugative power.

Not in a direct manner no (such is a necessity in modern international relations). However like many other western countries they will offer 'aid' to the lesser countries in order to gain access and dominion over comodities and inlfuence in the area.

E.g. Australia's interventions in the South-East Asian countries. 

Many smaller European nations are not either

They do this because they are small and unable to dominate. They will however do whatever they can to maintain their own sovereignty and if they have the opportunity they will expand it.

To bring this back on topic, a centralised mage society would have the power to dominate over other states therefore they inevitably would.

[KiwiQuiche]

Well, take down the Chantry and the Divine and yeah, sounds like a plan.

[xsdob]

Only if it doesn't encourage blood magic, slavery, and the restriction of power to just those with magical talent.

[Doctoglethorpe]

I'm more in favour of the isolationist agenda myself. 

[ImperatorMortis]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

I'm more in favour of the isolationist agenda myself. 

I kind of like the Isolationist idea myself. 

[KingGunDragon]

I would support it as long as Spirit Healer mages where the ones in charge they seem to be the most level headed mages by far. I would not support a blood mage ran state. Simpley because every time i tried to get people to accept the mages ( hell even turned some templars to their side) the blood mage would screw it up. Lost a lot of good templar friends to blood magic.

[Herr Uhl]

Plaintiff wrote...

Switzerland being a prominent example.

Switzerland is lodged between some of the largest warring states in Europe. They became neutral to avoid being conquered. The swiss mercenaries and money have been prominent features in many wars none the less.

Edit: As to the state. Most of the people in the state would probably be born non-mage. Would they be sent away?

It seems unrealistic that any of the other factions would recognize them as a state though. Seeing as it took 3 exhalted marches and a Qunari invasion to have a tenuous peace between Tevinter and the rest of Thedas.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 27 novembre 2012 - 09:54 .

[Vitlen]

xsdob wrote...

Only if it doesn't encourage blood magic, slavery, and the restriction of power to just those with magical talent.

Yes very good!
And just no mages please.

[fchopin]

Yes to freedom.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

You mean the land of destruction and Chaos? Nah ... wait.. Yes, somewhere to hack & slash!

[upsettingshorts]

GodWood wrote...

They do this because they are small and unable to dominate. They will however do whatever they can to maintain their own sovereignty and if they have the opportunity they will expand it.

Not everyone is a prescriptive political realist, Godwood.  The field of international relations is full of different opinions.  You're free to argue for the existence of objective truths when it comes to the history and practice of external policy state, but there's no reason anyone is obligated to agree.  Personally I think a lot has changed since the Melian Dialogue, but not everything has changed.  However, a serious debate on that subject is not appropriate for this board so I won't elaborate further.

In any case, if there's one thing that is broadly agreed upon - and this is more on topic - it is that neutral countries are responsible for enforcing their own neutrality.  Switzerland is able to accomplish this through universal service and a strongly fortified country.   A hypothetical Mage Country would, well, be populated with mages and could likely maintain their neutrality.  The danger in such a case would more likely be their not remain to be neutral for long, seeing as friction with neighboring states would be inevitable.  

Finally, since "mage" is not an ethnicity or even a culture, such a free state could not be maintained without constant immigration (of mages) and emmigration (of non-mages).  The issues of logistics this problem presents by itself is enough to derail the scheme entirely.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 novembre 2012 - 12:39 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

ImperatorMortis wrote...
How the hell can mundanes destroy a every expanding group of people who can heal themselves, and others at will. Summon rock to protect themselves. Create earthquakes,  and summon lightning from the sky. Shoot fireballs. Can control people like meat puppets.

Make people fall asleep. Literally paralyze people with fear. Crush people with their minds. Manipulate the laws of physics itself(Force Mage). Shapeshift into dragons. Freeze people, and etc.

Gameplay mechanics aside, almost every offensive mage spell is a one shot kill/maim. 

How?
Numbers. Anti-magic items. And getting to mages early, before they can maste their powers.
Also pooisoning or killing in the sleep works too.

[General User]

Mages in Thedas are not a distinct race or nationality. As such, giving them their own nation would be rather absurd.

Modifié par General User, 27 novembre 2012 - 12:47 .

[MichaelStuart]

Segregation is never the answer, be it self imposed or forced.
Mages and Mundanes need to learn to live together.

[upsettingshorts]

MichaelStuart wrote...

Segregation is never the answer, be it self imposed or forced.

It is never the answer in the real world.

But the real world doesn't have mages.

So it's an open question again.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ImperatorMortis wrote...
There is no reason why a mundane can't be possessed by a demon of its own will. Mundanes don't have a resistance to that kind of thing. The thing is. Its that Demons don't give a crap about possessing normal humans, because they're weak. Not that they can't.

Mundanes have just as much resistance to possesion as mages have - none.
Except mundanes are practicly invisible to demons (and also uninteresting) and don't have a constant presence in the Fade.

A mundane being possesed requires extraoridnary circumstances, but it can happen.

[Xilizhra]

I'm willing to consider the possibility, though I'm not entirely sure how well it would work, as I don't know how beneficial removing integration would be (and we need mages to fight off the qunari as well).

[Lotion Soronarr]

Plaintiff wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Elves that are (essentially) physical equals are not treated equally. Why would you expect superior beings to treat inferior ones the same?

Which proves nothing, except that Thedas is ruled by bigots. There's no reason to assume that a new state, formed by mages or anyone else, would suffer the same flaws.

There is EVERY reason to assuem that mages - being as flawed as every human, but more tempted  - will suffer the same falws.

One need only look at the established example of Ancient Rome to know that giving Italians any power will result in an opressive empire spanning most of the globe!

Stupid example is stupid.

[General User]

Mages arise of the nations and communities from which they come, and as such it is incumbent on those nations and communities to figure out for themselves how to deal with mages in society.

Pawning the problem off is simply not an option. Especially not in a such blithely idiotic way like creating a "mage nation" that, even if it were practical (which it isn't), would create far more and worse problems than it would solve.

[MichaelStuart]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

Segregation is never the answer, be it self imposed or forced.

It is never the answer in the real world.

But the real world doesn't have mages.

So it's an open question again.

I don't see the relevance of it not being set in the real world?

[upsettingshorts]

MichaelStuart wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

Segregation is never the answer, be it self imposed or forced.

It is never the answer in the real world.

But the real world doesn't have mages.

So it's an open question again.

I don't see the relevance of it not being set in the real world?

In the real world, distinctions between humans are arbitrary and often offensive.

In Thedas, distinctions between mages and mundanes are real and significant.  

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

It will be like a land for Assassins or Chemists .. not a ethnic or national country. Am I right?

[General User]

Legatus Arianus wrote...

It will be like a land for Assassins or Chemists .. not a ethnic or national country. Am I right?

The closest RW analogy I can think of would be that it'd like creating a nation specifically for those who show exceptional artistic or musical talent, or perhaps a nation of plague sufferers.  Either way, quite a ridiculous concept really.

Modifié par General User, 27 novembre 2012 - 01:08 .

[upsettingshorts]

Legatus Arianus wrote...

It will be like a land for Assassins or Chemists .. not a ethnic or national country. Am I right?

More like a land for really, really tall people.   

If you're tall, you move there.  If you're born there short, you move out.  

Height is inherited but that wouldn't prevent short people from being born, nor tall people being born to short parents.  

You can train to be an assassin or chemist, but you're either born with the potential to be a mage or not.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 novembre 2012 - 01:09 .