202 réponses à ce sujet

[74 Wrex]

If it means destroying the Templar Order Hell Yeah!!

[Fast Jimmy]

I'd be more for the Dalish boon to be granted than a Mage state. In a sense, a state ruled by Mages exists already (Tevinter). So let's throw the Elves a bone here.

[upsettingshorts]

74 Wrex wrote...

If it means destroying the Templar Order Hell Yeah!!

Ah but who would round up and deport domestic mages to Mage Land?

What if they didn't want to leave?  What if they stuck around?  Someone has to enforce the "mages only live in Mage Land" policy everywhere else.

So... it probably doesn't mean that.  Unless everywhere else is going to allow Mage Land agents to roam their land unsupervised and look for mages which I would highly doubt.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I'd be more for the Dalish boon to be granted than a Mage state. In a sense, a state ruled by Mages exists already (Tevinter). So let's throw the Elves a bone here.

Dalish elves are also an actual nation, so there's that.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 novembre 2012 - 01:14 .

[Masha Potato]

Wouldn't it end up being just one giant Circle

[grimkillah]

MichaelStuart wrote...

Segregation is never the answer, be it self imposed or forced.
Mages and Mundanes need to learn to live together.

I think segregation not only works but actually exists right now in the real world, However it is impossible in DA universe.
In the real world people segregate among religious and ethnic lines, but a mage only nation would mean a divide on class, and we all know a classless society doesn't work.

Mages been mages aren't good at farming or trade, and since they choose not to practice blood magic, their magical talents will not help them in trade with the Tevinter. no income means they can't purchase food for the citizen, no money to buy Lyrium from the Dwarfs, and so they can't even use enchantment as something they can trade with other nations. Their only solution would be allowing non-mage farmers and traders to come to their nation and working for them. If they are lucky, the land is rich in resources, if not eventually the nation will fall, or the mage will need to conquer nearby nations and enslave them to prop up the mage nation.

[upsettingshorts]

I'm not even touching grimkillah's post this early in the morning.  

Masha Potato wrote...

Wouldn't it end up being just one giant Circle

Only if the mechanisms through which Templars keep mages disorganized and weak through rigid oversight scaled up as well.  

Like... if the other states permanently occupied a mostly-sovereign Mage Land.  That just seems terribly expensive and less likely to work than the actual Circle Towers.

Let mages congregate in an organized mass large enough to form their own country?  Good luck maintaining power over that.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 novembre 2012 - 01:19 .

[74 Wrex]

Mage Land would be similar to The Circle with Templars reinforcing the rules for mages except in another land

[upsettingshorts]

74 Wrex wrote...

Mage Land would be similar to The Circle with Templars reinforcing the rules for mages except in another land

One would think that the last ten or so years of current events would serve as a demonstration of various difficulties associated with maintaining an occupying force in a hostile country.

The Templars and the Chantry wouldn't have it because it'd be more expensive, more difficult, and unsustainable.

Mages might accept it at first, but not forever. 

In any case, I've probably said enough on the subject already.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 novembre 2012 - 01:30 .

[Sifr]

Establishing neutral territories in each country, protected under the banner of an overarching Confederation seems like the best option. Attack one, you anger them all. One territory gets out of line, the others step in to deal with them.

Whatever the case, I think that Mages serving a similar function to the Templars is inevitable, simply because there has to be some authority in place to police the troublemakers.

[MichaelStuart]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

Segregation is never the answer, be it self imposed or forced.

It is never the answer in the real world.

But the real world doesn't have mages.

So it's an open question again.

I don't see the relevance of it not being set in the real world?

In the real world, distinctions between humans are arbitrary and often offensive.

In Thedas, distinctions between mages and mundanes are real and significant.  

I agree that Mages are distinct, I still disagree that it not being set in the real world is relevant to my point that segregation will not solve the problem of distrust between Mages and Mundanes

[Fast Jimmy]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I'd be more for the Dalish boon to be granted than a Mage state. In a sense, a state ruled by Mages exists already (Tevinter). So let's throw the Elves a bone here.

Dalish elves are also an actual nation, so there's that.

Don't sass me, Shorts. 

I suppose I should clarify... I would rather see the Dalish granted their own official nation/lands than the Mages, at this juncture in time. That being said, I would also like to see them win some independence from the Circle system. Mageocracies usually have a bad history of going south (both in other works of fiction, as well as the one example in Thedas we have, Tevinter).

[upsettingshorts]

I wasn't, though I could now I suppose. I'll explain instead: By nation, I meant they are a people with a shared history and culture.

Nation is often misused to mean the same thing as "state" - but I was not using the term in that way.

I was, in actuality, agreeing with you. A nation is as good a start as any for forming a state. Unlike "mages" the Dalish are a people.

...though I'm not sure if Thedas even has "states" in the traditional Westphalian sense. I'm sure David Gaider knows what I'm getting at, and he could answer, but who knows if curiosity will lead him to this thread.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 novembre 2012 - 02:21 .

[Herr Uhl]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

...though I'm not sure if Thedas even has "states" in the traditional Westphalian sense. I'm sure David Gaider knows what I'm getting at, and he could answer, but who knows if curiosity will lead him to this thread.

I doubt they have states in the Westphalian sense. Mostly because there are scant borders on any map.

[Medhia Nox]

I wouldn't support a Free Mage State - even as a mage player.

I have no faith in humanity (especially those with magic) to not produce another highly oppressive Kratocracy

[Heimdall]

I doubt such a society could really exist, you'd end up with it being consumed by the same power vying politics that consume every other nation in Thedas outside the Tervinter Imperium. From there it'd only be a matter of time before somebody starts using blood magic and demons to give themselves an edge, a short hop from there to Tervinter.

[Kajagoogoo3]

 I would, make it a free country and outlaw blood magic and you got it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

MichaelStuart wrote...
I agree that Mages are distinct, I still disagree that it not being set in the real world is relevant to my point that segregation will not solve the problem of distrust between Mages and Mundanes

It won't. Nothing will.
People tend to distruct things tht can take over their mind or kill them even with the best of intentions.

Segregation isn't there to make mundanes trust mages. It's there to keep everyone alive.

[PsychoBlonde]

Foolsfolly wrote...

If it came to it and a group of mages and a gathered army stood together in the hopes of forging a new state without the Chantry, Circles, or any other mage oppressing organization. Would you stand with them?

No.  Because you can't build a free country by being "against" this or that.  You have to be *for* some very specific things instead.  This variety of movement would inevitably either end up like the French Revolution, with terror and purges, or it would just collapse around its own vacuum and disappear.

[MisterJB]

Another Tevinter or worse in time. No, thank you.

[Beerfish]

I would move to Par vollen and open a cookie store with a side business of "Beerfish's Mage lip sewing service."

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

It would be a great outcome.  They could open their borders to Dalish elves, giving them a nice work force for farming and basic trades, leaving the mages time to study magicalize.  The real money would come from doing magical things for foreign nations, essentially running a "mage mall" out of their embassies.  Healing potions alone would make them a fortune among soldiers, never mind fortitude and other buffs for the working man.  Before long, any country that didn't have a mage mall would be at a disadvantage.  It could work.

Of course, my mage would have to found the nation.

Beerfish wrote...

I would move to Par vollen and open a cookie store with a side business of "Beerfish's Mage lip sewing service."

:(

[SeptimusMagistos]

I'd prefer to just get them integrated into normal society. You could have your butcher, your baker, and your friendly neighborhood mage all living on the same street.

[General User]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

It would be a great outcome.  They could open their borders to Dalish elves, giving them a nice work force for farming and basic trades, leaving the mages time to study magicalize. 

I think Tevinter tried something pretty much exactly along those lines.  You know, before Andraste came along and ruined their picnic.

Modifié par General User, 27 novembre 2012 - 05:29 .

[Dabrikishaw]

Celene II wrote...

I would accept that as one of the possible endings for a Mage War and I believe that without enough mages it could stop any attempt to remove them as long as they didnt have an Orsino in charge.

Other endings should be total destruction of one side or the other, a return to the circle system, a more draconian type of restriction like all mages made tranquil, or a new less evil Magocracy that ruled much of Thedas.

I hope that there are at least a dozen ways to resolve mages/chantry disputes.

[Huntress]

Foolsfolly wrote...

As the title says.

If it came to it and a group of mages and a gathered army stood together in the hopes of forging a new state without the Chantry, Circles, or any other mage oppressing organization. Would you stand with them?

Personally, I think it'd be a gas. Carve out a piece of the Free Marches or Orlais and make it a free non-Tevinter Empire state for mages. Does it have a chance of surviving? Hell no. There'd be so many Divine Marches called against it that it'll fall from outside forces long before there'd be any interal collapse.

But free men and women united fighting for independence would be a fun story. Even if it just leads to the gallows.

Hmm not sure about free state.. there is nothing free in this world or any other thats why we create rules, govements and indoctrinate the people to see our way of doing things..
you know I think the divine's should have sended the indoctrinated mages to tevinter! Weakning the foes from within, civil wars! oh my!.. but they fail to see something like that, they needed free labour, so mages stay jailed indoctrinated and abused for live under the merciful eye of the chantry.

And now they lost alot of the mages, some of wich could have been great allies..
I see orlais creating a new maker..

wait!!! i am wrong Inquisitors will bring the fire of justice to the innocents! wich of them I wonder?  will it be for the young mages raped under templar supervisions? the branded and killed for using blood magic even tho they  were never seen casting blood magic spells? or maybe the innocent who were turned into tranquils and after that abused by their so called protectors?  .. innocents.. hmm who are the innocents?

the templars abuses didn't only occuer in Kirkwall for the "if" you are going to use that one, Starhaven mages burned and scaped their circle because??  it was too good to be true? I don't think so. many if not all starheaven mages who were found turned to blood magic for a reason and am sure it wasn't because they love to cut their wrist.