150 réponses à ce sujet

[IllusiveManJr]

NexionSE wrote...

funny that just mentioning harrier and posibly nerf in a post is almost always 4 pages atleast of coments

i thought of this thread as the obligatory "What's Balance Changes going to be?" thread. Not a "nerf the Harrier" thread. 

[Computron2000]

The entire "its popular" argument for nerfs and what not is really poorly thought out. As long as its not terrible (eg a water gun, terrible accuracy, etc), i believe most users put a higher priority on user friendliness. Take the Mattock for instance. Do you really want to keep pressing that mouse button to fire at its best ROF or would you prefer something that did less damage but only required you to keep your finger pressed on the button?

The charging/ramp up/auto regen ammo mechanics of the other weapons require players to get used to it and unless players are convinced of the worth of learning how to use a weapon by seeing it do well in action by another, most will simply fall back to the standard shooter weapons, the type that is either simple single shot or simple full auto

Edit: Also i find it funny that a lot of people asking for nerfs still have a concept of tiers, aka 1 gun better than another. The problem is that something will always be "OP" as long as a tier can be constructed, which means you will never stop asking for nerfs as something else becomes "OP"

Modifié par Computron2000, 27 novembre 2012 - 12:18 .

[P51Mus7ang]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

NexionSE wrote...

funny that just mentioning harrier and posibly nerf in a post is almost always 4 pages atleast of coments

i thought of this thread as the obligatory "What's Balance Changes going to be?" thread. Not a "nerf the Harrier" thread. 

Perhaps but that is NOT how you chose to word it, thus leaving us to determine what the objective might be.

[IllusiveManJr]

My objective? Good God you people are paranoid. My ultimate hidden agenda is to take over BSN through nerfs and troll threads.

I stated what my thoughts on what balance challenges would be tomorrow. Then asked what yours were. Simple.

[Computron2000]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

NexionSE wrote...

funny that just mentioning harrier and posibly nerf in a post is almost always 4 pages atleast of coments

i thought of this thread as the obligatory "What's Balance Changes going to be?" thread. Not a "nerf the Harrier" thread. 

No, you knew this would be the result. Your prior posts have already shown you know how people will react to how you word things.

[IllusiveManJr]

I changed the title due to people messages/comments.

I am not some master manipulator thinking of how to ****** people off. But think of me what you will.

[Descy_]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

My objective? Good God you people are paranoid. My ultimate hidden agenda is to take over BSN through nerfs and troll threads.

I stated what my thoughts on what balance challenges would be tomorrow. Then asked what yours were. Simple.

MY MOTHER IS A SAINT.

[Clayless]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

NexionSE wrote...

funny that just mentioning harrier and posibly nerf in a post is almost always 4 pages atleast of coments

i thought of this thread as the obligatory "What's Balance Changes going to be?" thread. Not a "nerf the Harrier" thread. 

Then don't bring it up in the OP.

[holdenagincourt]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I changed the title due to people messages/comments.

I am not some master manipulator thinking of how to ****** people off. But think of me what you will.

I think that I want to play with you when I get back home for winter break. It's a shame we've never played together! 

[Doodle]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

My ultimate hidden agenda is to take over BSN through nerfs and troll threads.

i am at your command.

[SeanThen1]

The Harrier is glitched. They just need to fix the glitch and the weapon will be balanced. Switch the climb/accuracy of the gun when you're IN COVER with when you're OUT of cover. It isn't a big difference, but it is noticeable, and will eat the "far" end of the weapon's range & damage unless you get into cover.

[Upfunkt]

SeanThen1 wrote...

The Harrier is glitched. They just need to fix the glitch and the weapon will be balanced. Switch the climb/accuracy of the gun when you're IN COVER with when you're OUT of cover. It isn't a big difference, but it is noticeable, and will eat the "far" end of the weapon's range & damage unless you get into cover.

^
This.

[Grunt_Platform]

SeanThen1 wrote...

The Harrier is glitched. They just need to fix the glitch and the weapon will be balanced. Switch the climb/accuracy of the gun when you're IN COVER with when you're OUT of cover. It isn't a big difference, but it is noticeable, and will eat the "far" end of the weapon's range & damage unless you get into cover.

This.

I think the Harrier is precious to most of us because it was the first AR that could actually hold its own against Shotguns as a real weapon for soldiers. Recoil has never been that big a deal for full auto weapons, but it'll make a difference.

Of course, I think right now we're in a sort of bizarre state of weapon balance where most "bad" weapons are mostly bad because the benefits of low weight are too small on higher difficulties. There's something up with side arms, and there's something up with caster classes.

Modifié par EvanKester, 27 novembre 2012 - 01:03 .

[Upfunkt]

EvanKester wrote...

This.

I think the Harrier is precious to most of us because it was the first AR that could actually hold its own against Shotguns as a real weapon for soldiers. Recoil has never been that big a deal for full auto weapons, but it'll make a difference.

Of course, I think right now we're in a sort of bizarre state of weapon balance where most "bad" weapons are mostly bad because the benefits of low weight are too small on higher difficulties. There's something up with side arms, and there's something up with caster classes.

I believe casters would bear the brunt of a Harrier nerf. It's a great assault rifle with acceptable weight. I don't feel it's overpowered at all and is worthy of Ultra Rare status. I just got it to level X about a month ago so it'd be a real kick in the quad if BioWare were to suddenly reduce its damage and say "No... sorry. You can't use that weapon anymore. Too many kids were complaining about it when they didn't top the scoreboard. We've reduced its damage, ROT and increased its weight. You're better off using the Avenger now".
Keep in mind that I only use the Harrier for two of my kits. I don't even use it for the Ghost which seems to be a popular choice, yet I'll consistently top the scoreboard with the Saber X on Gold & Platinum. Should they nerf the Saber??? My point is, any class in the right hands is "overpowered". If everyone else is comfortable using the Harrier and it makes Platinum games less of an ordeal then let them. We're all on the same team here. Honestly, I'll never understand why people call for nerfs in a co-op game.

[Fixx21]

Upfunkt wrote...

EvanKester wrote...

This.

I think the Harrier is precious to most of us because it was the first AR that could actually hold its own against Shotguns as a real weapon for soldiers. Recoil has never been that big a deal for full auto weapons, but it'll make a difference.

Of course, I think right now we're in a sort of bizarre state of weapon balance where most "bad" weapons are mostly bad because the benefits of low weight are too small on higher difficulties. There's something up with side arms, and there's something up with caster classes.

I believe casters would bear the brunt of a Harrier nerf. It's a great assault rifle with acceptable weight. I don't feel it's overpowered at all and is worthy of Ultra Rare status. I just got it to level X about a month ago so it'd be a real kick in the quad if BioWare were to suddenly reduce its damage and say "No... sorry. You can't use that weapon anymore. Too many kids were complaining about it when they didn't top the scoreboard. We've reduced its damage, ROT and increased its weight. You're better off using the Avenger now".
Keep in mind that I only use the Harrier for two of my kits. I don't even use it for the Ghost which seems to be a popular choice, yet I'll consistently top the scoreboard with the Saber X on Gold & Platinum. Should they nerf the Saber??? My point is, any class in the right hands is "overpowered". If everyone else is comfortable using the Harrier and it makes Platinum games less of an ordeal then let them. We're all on the same team here. Honestly, I'll never understand why people call for nerfs in a co-op game.

This ^^ 

[.458]

theillusiveman11 wrote...
....
A majority of players use the Harrier. A nerf would be logical.
...

NO. Actually a nerf is not logical. If you really want to get technical about it, consult bayesian statistics. The key there is the use of sequential comparisons of prior data such as a cycle. Take the winter weather, and it is not likely your averages will mean much compared to summer...it's a cycle. Each winter compared to the next winter though could be useful, e.g., global warming. The weapons used in this game after a player has unlocked UR requires comparison of UR to UR, and not UR to rare. Among those in UR, it requires comparing assault rifles to assault rifles...there aren't too many of those in UR. You could compare UR sniper weapons.

To say a lot of people use a harrier thus nerf it is completely illogical...unless all rewards should be punished when the reward  has meaning. If we had several assault rifles in UR and one of them was used a lot, the question is still whether to buff those that are not used. To stop an UR because people use it after unlocking it over time and finding it more meaningful than a rare that was easier would be complete and utter disaster to the whole system of rewards.

Want fewer people to use the harrier? Put competition in that category of UR. Or as people progress and the cycles repeat of graduating to the next level of weapon, come up with a new level.

I for one put forth the effort to unlock. A lot of work, a lot of sweat, many lost connections and lagged out games. That UR is the only mountain to climb, and unless BioWare wants to destroy the foundation of enjoyment, the only "because it is used a lot" argument to consider requires bayesian statistics, not someone saying "I don't like other people having this".

http://en.wikipedia....sian_statistics

Modifié par .458, 27 novembre 2012 - 01:36 .

[capn233]

Upfunkt wrote...

I believe casters would bear the brunt of a Harrier nerf. It's a great assault rifle with acceptable weight. I don't feel it's overpowered at all and is worthy of Ultra Rare status. I just got it to level X about a month ago so it'd be a real kick in the quad if BioWare were to suddenly reduce its damage and say "No... sorry. You can't use that weapon anymore. Too many kids were complaining about it when they didn't top the scoreboard. We've reduced its damage, ROT and increased its weight. You're better off using the Avenger now".

This is fairly absurd.  Do you know how much they would have to nerf the Harrier to get the Avenger to outperform it?  We are talking a nerf of biblical proportions, higher then the Krysae nerf.

As for "casters would bear the brunt," that isn't even true.  It might be marginally true if a weight change is the only change, but then again why should a weapon with one of the highest sustained damage values be relatively light?  And supposing they did increase the weight slightly, how is 0.2s or so of cooldown time going to ruin a caster?

Modifié par capn233, 27 novembre 2012 - 01:40 .

[IronRush]

Harrier nerf, Collectors tweak and Drell Infiltrator as new char.

Nerf stim pack is complicated cos will nerf Turian Havoc also. I dont know how can be done.

[taplonaplo]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Those who think the Harrier is OP have no idea how a well played Reegar or a PPR are superior to it. Or they also think the Reegar and the PPR are OP and should be nerfed.

Reegar: no question about it, how it evaded it this far, i have no idea
PPR: Yes, but to do that you pretty much have to give up power use, in which case playing a non weapon based class is pretty much pointless.

Come to think of it all of the Rebellion weapons were/are stupidly powerful compared to most altrenatives.

If they are so balanced, would you say that the first 2 months after the game's release when they weren't available at all was unjustifiably hard on gold? If so, why did Geth/Cerberus received buffs? And how did adding even more powerful weapons changed it for the better? 

The moment you introduce better weapons, someone will start complaining how the older ones are just too weak, even if it was perfecly viable, and how they should be buffed so they can compete with the new and shiny. And guess what, bioware pretty much obliges since if they nerf anything even a little 70% the community just goes haywire, spamming caps threads how the game was ruined by it  and threatening to quit over it (who remembers the "tactical cloak is fine, don't touch it" threads? Yeah, it's clear that 10+15% nerf completely wrecked the class...).

The result? Colloctors for one. I'm willing to bet if the newer weapons were more in line with the older ones, they wouldn't have had to bloat their health to such an extent to make them a challanging enemy, coz let's face, after the proposed "ima eat my hat if you reliably farm plat" difficulty with its 1st day solos, it'd have been kind of a joke if collectors were not posing any more challange than what's already in game.

And guess what, now the complaints about certain weapons not being viable enough on gold are kind of valid, coz when you have 5 enemies on the map with the health on atlas and enough offensive power to be able to push the player's position, your pheaston will probably not cut it in breaking through their lines.

My 0.02$.

TL;DR: Power creep will just lead into even more power creep.

Modifié par taplonaplo, 27 novembre 2012 - 01:51 .

[Stabby Badger]

OneTrueShot wrote...

I PREDICT A RIOT.

...oh boy.

Volus Vanguard confirmed?

[Upfunkt]

capn233 wrote...

As for "casters would bear the brunt," that isn't even true.  It might be marginally true if a weight change is the only change, but then again why should a weapon with one of the highest sustained damage values be relatively light?  And supposing they did increase the weight slightly, how is 0.2s or so of cooldown time going to ruin a caster?

The Avenger remark was an exaggeration, of course. About casters, yes you have a point but then again casters are squishy. In Platinum, 0.2 seconds is an eternity in which you can kill or be killed. I'd much rather have the + 0.2 seconds cool down time. I also never stated the above mentioned quote as fact. I said "I believe casters would bear the brunt." Just because someone believes in the flying spaghetti monster doesn't necessarily mean there's one flying around up there.

[IronRush]

Jay... Harrier is much more easier to use. Harrier is perfect in all aspects. THE ONLY DOWNSIDE is ammo.

[Last--Warrior-13]

Upfunkt wrote...

EvanKester wrote...

This.

I think the Harrier is precious to most of us because it was the first AR that could actually hold its own against Shotguns as a real weapon for soldiers. Recoil has never been that big a deal for full auto weapons, but it'll make a difference.

Of course, I think right now we're in a sort of bizarre state of weapon balance where most "bad" weapons are mostly bad because the benefits of low weight are too small on higher difficulties. There's something up with side arms, and there's something up with caster classes.

I believe casters would bear the brunt of a Harrier nerf. It's a great assault rifle with acceptable weight. I don't feel it's overpowered at all and is worthy of Ultra Rare status. I just got it to level X about a month ago so it'd be a real kick in the quad if BioWare were to suddenly reduce its damage and say "No... sorry. You can't use that weapon anymore. Too many kids were complaining about it when they didn't top the scoreboard. We've reduced its damage, ROT and increased its weight. You're better off using the Avenger now".
Keep in mind that I only use the Harrier for two of my kits. I don't even use it for the Ghost which seems to be a popular choice, yet I'll consistently top the scoreboard with the Saber X on Gold & Platinum. Should they nerf the Saber??? My point is, any class in the right hands is "overpowered". If everyone else is comfortable using the Harrier and it makes Platinum games less of an ordeal then let them. We're all on the same team here. Honestly, I'll never understand why people call for nerfs in a co-op game.

+999
If harrier is nerfed,i would lay down my arms and quit.They have already taken much fun out of the game with some crappy balance changes.can't tolerate more....

[JC_aka_fps_john]

Drell Infiltrator as a new character

Combo damage vs Collectors fixed

Buff to something... the Saber, maybe

Some pointless changes to the challenge system that nobody will care about

and...

Adas Anti-Synthetic Rifle added as an unlockable weapon in MP (rare). Calling it.

[DarkseidXIII]

So I predicted no nerf/buffs. We got no nerf/buffs. Damn I'm good. Go ahead, ask me anything. Warning! I can't see anything from 12-22 onward.