371 réponses à ce sujet

[Thuricide]

A minor gripe, which is not exclusively seen on Omega, but during playable action sequences, I find that immersion is broken when you stumble upon allied NPCs "holding down a position" firing at enemies, which are not controlled or contributing. They're simply firing at nothing over and over to provide an illusion of an action packed environment. Would it be that hard to give them enemy AI and have them target enemies?
It seems that any time I stumble upon allied NPCs I expect to see them die as soon as I arrive or they'll just sit there firing at the same spot. I find myself scrutinizing the details less and less due to disappointment...

[silverexile17s]

RevenantWolf wrote...

I can't believe you cannot go back to Omega. Can you at least fly to it on the map with the Normandy? If you cannot go back, where is Aria? Don't tell me she is still on the couch?! I only read the first post, sorry if this has been mentioned.

Yes. She goes right back to the Citadel. Same coutch at Purgatory.
The in-game reason is that Omega is still too much of a mess to coordinate her Terminus forces from, and the rebuilding leaves little room to set up a proper CP. It's easier to coordinate from the Citadel right now, so she's "slumming it" on the Citadel until the major reconstrcution of Omega is finished.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 06 décembre 2012 - 12:22 .

[silverexile17s]

Thuricide wrote...

A minor gripe, which is not exclusively seen on Omega, but during playable action sequences, I find that immersion is broken when you stumble upon allied NPCs "holding down a position" firing at enemies, which are not controlled or contributing. They're simply firing at nothing over and over to provide an illusion of an action packed environment. Would it be that hard to give them enemy AI and have them target enemies?
It seems that any time I stumble upon allied NPCs I expect to see them die as soon as I arrive or they'll just sit there firing at the same spot. I find myself scrutinizing the details less and less due to disappointment...

Archangel targeted you and brought your shields down in ME2 if you stood out in the open too long. That could have been done for this, right?

[m2iCodeJockey]

Pro:
Environment in the mine was visually stunning
The image of the Cerberus logo changing to the Afterlife sign was visceral
Chicks dig Bray and Ahz <-Not kidding.

Con:
Jokes lacked payoff (On the way out, show guy getting dragged but, Elcor rolling up with the couch)
A few of Aria's lines were stilted nonsense (she spoke too often for someone who is supposed to be hardened)
Aria's lines were delivered too softly:
- Aria: "I'm byack fu**ers!! (Now I'm gonna' clean your clacks at conasta!!)" (Needed a little more Detroit and less Fargo)
Bray's sh** details

[Mr.House]

I still disagree with Oleg being in the cons, he's the best villain in the series along with The Shadow Broker, I really think that he should not be in the list as it's not a fact and taste on Oleg is opinions, just like opinions on every other villains. Well others might find him non interesting then other villains in ME series, others do find him intresting and a well done villian.

Modifié par Mr.House, 06 décembre 2012 - 01:42 .

[m2iCodeJockey]

Mr.House wrote...

I still disagree with Oleg being in the cons, he's the best villain in the series along with The Shadow Broker, I really think that he should not be in the list as it's not a fact and taste on Oleg is opinions, just like opinions on every other villains. Well others might find him non interesting then other villains in ME series, others do find him intresting and a well done villian.

Petrovsky was sensible but, underdone.
For a guy that was supposed to be a chess master, where was his escape plan?

[FlyinElk212]

Mr.House wrote...

I still disagree with Oleg being in the cons, he's the best villain in the series along with The Shadow Broker, I really think that he should not be in the list as it's not a fact and taste on Oleg is opinions, just like opinions on every other villains. Well others might find him non interesting then other villains in ME series, others do find him intresting and a well done villian.

I place Oleg in the cons for his unoriginality; personality doesn't really have anything to do with it.

He's unoriginal because his motivations and plot mirrors the Illusive Man's to the tee. Past DLC have included antagonists with internal conflict and moral nuance in terms of motives. Oleg has neither (at least in this DLC. Unsure about the comics).

[Wesker1984]

Thank you Bioware for the great Omega DLC! We need more Mass Effect contents!

[JBPBRC]

Mr.House wrote...

I still disagree with Oleg being in the cons, he's the best villain in the series along with The Shadow Broker,

Statements like these make me cringe. Not because I disagree with what's being said (though I haven't played nor watched more than a few minutes of Omega), but because I find it sad that the best villains in the series have apparently hailed not from the hours long main games, but from short DLC episodes.

[George Costanza]

It's stretches credulity as to why Shepard would waste time, when millions of people are dying each day, to help a criminal take control of a cess-pit. After the Reapers are dealt with? Fine. During the biggest threat the galaxy has ever faced? Retarded.

But, you know, DLC continues to face this issue. That and a complete lack of urgency knowing that nothing we do, and no matter how many war assets we go after, they're irrelevant. It's the perils of boxing yourself into a corner with your story and then still trying to peddle DLC to people. Now everything has to take place in the middle of the story, and frequently it raises questions, as well as feeling like it doesn't really matter.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

The soundtrack being sub par is completely subjective! Shouldn't be listed as a con.

[AllThatJazz]

Yeah, I liked the soundtrack too. Not as stirring as the main game, but there were a few points (the mines, especially) where I thought it sounded really good. In fact the whole mines level was great fun - good pacing, entertaining fights, creepy atmosphere, and a really awesome part with the reactor. The Mines level should have a line of its own on the pro list, imo.

I also agree with Mr House. Oleg was well done, and consistent with his character as written in Invasion (which is important). He wasn't indoctrinated, which would have been a bit of a cop out, he was clever enough to surrender when he realised he had lost, and you get the option not to kill him.

The Oleg thing in particular seems so incredibly subjective that maybe it should either appear on both the Pro and Con list, or on neither?

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 06 décembre 2012 - 02:10 .

[FlyinElk212]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Yeah, I liked the soundtrack too. Not as stirring as the main game, but there were a few points (the mines, especially) where I thought it sounded really good. In fact the whole mines level was great fun - good pacing, entertaining fights, creepy atmosphere, and a really awesome part with the reactor. The Mines level should have a line of its own on the pro list, imo.

I also agree with Mr House. Oleg was well done, and consistent with his character as written in Invasion (which is important). He wasn't indoctrinated, which would have been a bit of a cop out, he was clever enough to surrender when he realised he had lost, and you get the option not to kill him.

The Oleg thing in particular seems so incredibly subjective that maybe it should either appear on both the Pro and Con list, or on neither?

I said it a few posts up but I'll say it again since no one that has defended Oleg has responded to this notion:

I place Oleg in the cons for his unoriginality; personality, or whether or not he was "true to his comic character" doesn't really have anything to do with it.

He's unoriginal because his motivations and plot mirrors the Illusive Man's to the tee. Past DLC have included antagonists with internal conflict and moral nuance in terms of motives. Oleg has neither (at least in this DLC. Unsure about the comics).

In terms of the soundtrack, I agree it's subjective, and it's gonna get removed. A couple of people have complained about that.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 06 décembre 2012 - 02:16 .

[Arathon]

ste100 wrote...

Hope Bioware will learn from their mistakes.

*laugh* Good one...

[AllThatJazz]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

Yeah, I liked the soundtrack too. Not as stirring as the main game, but there were a few points (the mines, especially) where I thought it sounded really good. In fact the whole mines level was great fun - good pacing, entertaining fights, creepy atmosphere, and a really awesome part with the reactor. The Mines level should have a line of its own on the pro list, imo.

I also agree with Mr House. Oleg was well done, and consistent with his character as written in Invasion (which is important). He wasn't indoctrinated, which would have been a bit of a cop out, he was clever enough to surrender when he realised he had lost, and you get the option not to kill him.

The Oleg thing in particular seems so incredibly subjective that maybe it should either appear on both the Pro and Con list, or on neither?

I said it a few posts up but I'll say it again since no one that has defended Oleg has responded to this notion:

I place Oleg in the cons for his unoriginality; personality, or whether or not he was "true to his comic character" doesn't really have anything to do with it.

He's unoriginal because his motivations and plot mirrors the Illusive Man's to the tee. Past DLC have included antagonists with internal conflict and moral nuance in terms of motives. Oleg has neither (at least in this DLC. Unsure about the comics).

In terms of the soundtrack, I agree it's subjective, and it's gonna get removed. A couple of people have complained about that.

Well, I'll give a response a go then

In terms of his motivations being similar to the Illusive Man's, why wouldn't they be? To volunteer for Cerberus membership, you have to hold certain ideals, such as wanting to see the success or supremacy of the human race. But he is different to the Illusive Man - first of all, he can admit when he has lost, he surrenders, even volunteers information when in captivity (I think), which indicates a more far more sensible perspective than TIM's, who persists with his strategy even though it's actually helping the Reapers more than humanity. Oleg also hasn't been reaperised, so his motivations and perspectives are at least his own, and not tainted with the possibility of indoctrination.

Since Omega is only a dlc, we don't get to know Petrovsky as well as we did TIM, but I never got the impression that he was into the gamesmanship and lies that TIM routinely employed to keep Shep & co off guard in ME2. Oleg comes off as being ruthless and quite blunt but not unnecessarily brutal (he spared Aria, an event in Invasion which is nonetheless referenced in the dlc), and he knows when to quit. TIM seems in equal parts (to me) devoted to the advancement of humanity and to the pursuit of personal power, whereas I am not struck by any megalomaniacal leanings in Oleg. 

You're right that Invasion isn't relevant to most players - but it is relevant to those players who also read the comic. It's important that there was consistency, no character assassination, that Bio Montreal didn't turn a relatively good character into a moustache-twirling cut-out. Any player out there who has read the comic but not yet purchased the dlc may well find that bit of information quite reassuring. It's also good to feed that back to Bio, who will at least know that their efforts to maintain consistency across different media is appreciated by those fans with experience of both.

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 06 décembre 2012 - 04:17 .

[silverexile17s]

AllThatJazz wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

Yeah, I liked the soundtrack too. Not as stirring as the main game, but there were a few points (the mines, especially) where I thought it sounded really good. In fact the whole mines level was great fun - good pacing, entertaining fights, creepy atmosphere, and a really awesome part with the reactor. The Mines level should have a line of its own on the pro list, imo.

I also agree with Mr House. Oleg was well done, and consistent with his character as written in Invasion (which is important). He wasn't indoctrinated, which would have been a bit of a cop out, he was clever enough to surrender when he realised he had lost, and you get the option not to kill him.

The Oleg thing in particular seems so incredibly subjective that maybe it should either appear on both the Pro and Con list, or on neither?

I said it a few posts up but I'll say it again since no one that has defended Oleg has responded to this notion:

I place Oleg in the cons for his unoriginality; personality, or whether or not he was "true to his comic character" doesn't really have anything to do with it.

He's unoriginal because his motivations and plot mirrors the Illusive Man's to the tee. Past DLC have included antagonists with internal conflict and moral nuance in terms of motives. Oleg has neither (at least in this DLC. Unsure about the comics).

In terms of the soundtrack, I agree it's subjective, and it's gonna get removed. A couple of people have complained about that.

Well, I'll give a response a go then

In terms of his motivations being similar to the Illusive Man's, why wouldn't they be? To volunteer for Cerberus membership, you have to hold certain ideals, such as wanting to see the success or supremacy of the human race. But he is different to the Illusive Man - first of all, he can admit when he has lost, he surrenders, even volunteers information when in captivity (I think), which indicates a more far more sensible perspective than TIM's, who persists with his strategy even though it's actually helping the Reapers more than humanity. Oleg also hasn't been reaperised, so his motivations and perspectives are at least his own, and not tainted with the possibility of indoctrination.

Since Omega is only a dlc, we don't get to know Petrovsky as well as we did TIM, but I never got the impression that he was into the gamesmanship and lies that TIM routinely employed to keep Shep & co off guard in ME2. Oleg comes off as being ruthless and quite blunt but not unnecessarily brutal (he spared Aria, an event in Invasion which is nonetheless referenced in the dlc), and he knows when to quit. TIM seems in equal parts (to me) devoted to the advancement of humanity and to the pursuit of personal power, whereas I am not struck by any megalomaniacal leanings in Oleg. 

You're right that Invasion isn't relevant to most players - but it is relevant to those players who also read the comic. It's important that there was consistency, no character assassination, that Bio Montreal didn't turn a relatively good character into a moustache-twirling cut-out. Any player out there who has read the comic but not yet purchased the dlc may well find that bit of information quite reassuring. It's also good to feed that back to Bio, who will at least know that their efforts to maintain consistency across different media is appreciated by those fans with experience of both.

True enough, I suppose.

Still, I can't help but feel they were too careful. He still felt cliche' since there really wasn't that much of his character they built up in the DLC.
They didn't expand all that much on Petrovsky's character that much, aside from some hints here and there.

And the experiments on the Adjucants and the Omega populance doesn't seem like something he would have allowed, at least based on his personality in Invasion. He was devoted to Cerberus' ideals, but he never struck me as completely ruthless, or as having a results at all costs mentality, like the Illusive Man, or Aria
Certinly not enough that he would just turn a blind eye to the experimentation on the Omgea populance with the Adjucants, or support converting the stations population into those monsters, like the lab logs and his diolouge on "the soldiers for (their) new army" seem to suggest he did, or the Reaper implants in his own soldiers.

I think there were missed oppertunities. Like "How did Cerberus farm such a large army in six months?" They could have made it so that Omega was actually Cerberus' central recruting center, and their army was formed by recruting and conscripting Omegas' human population.
That would also have explained the lack of humans seen in the DLC. I mean, there were only a few humans I saw in the whole DLC.

Also, it would have been interesting to have had Petrovsky possibly not be aware of the experimentation regarding Omgea's non-human populance, and the Adjucants. Or not even have him be aware of his own soldiers' Reaper implants. Something that would give some character deapth by having him start to doubt if Cerberus still follows the values he joined them for.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 07 décembre 2012 - 04:21 .

[AllThatJazz]

@silverexile - I totally agree that there were missed opportunities in Omega, plenty of them. Petrovsky's character and motivations could have been explored more, yeah, though to do it proper justice it would probably have involved a totally different dlc than the one we got

I disagree that what was presented makes him 'less intriguing than past ME antagonists' (quote from OP) - even in this short dlc, he comes across as a better antagonist and more interesting character than, say, Kai Leng, or even The Collectors in ME2 (who only became marginally interesting for me after the Prothean reveal). At any rate, surely not so bad that he actually appears in the list of 'cons' for the dlc, even if he was somewhat underdeveloped here.

I'm also not sure about the experiments thing. I think it's in character for Oleg to take the view of 'sacrificing the few to aid the many', which I guess (looking at it from a pro-Cerberus pov) is what they were trying to do - use Reaper methods to create an army of powerful adjutants which would then presumably fight the Reapers? I think he's ruthless enough to do it, as long as he sees a good enough reason for it. What he wouldn't do, I don't think, is arbitrarily murder a bunch of people when there's nothing to gain from it.

[silverexile17s]

AllThatJazz wrote...

@silverexile - I totally agree that there were missed opportunities in Omega, plenty of them. Petrovsky's character and motivations could have been explored more, yeah, though to do it proper justice it would probably have involved a totally different dlc than the one we got

I disagree that what was presented makes him 'less intriguing than past ME antagonists' (quote from OP) - even in this short dlc, he comes across as a better antagonist and more interesting character than, say, Kai Leng, or even The Collectors in ME2 (who only became marginally interesting for me after the Prothean reveal). At any rate, surely not so bad that he actually appears in the list of 'cons' for the dlc, even if he was somewhat underdeveloped here.

I'm also not sure about the experiments thing. I think it's in character for Oleg to take the view of 'sacrificing the few to aid the many', which I guess (looking at it from a pro-Cerberus pov) is what they were trying to do - use Reaper methods to create an army of powerful adjutants which would then presumably fight the Reapers? I think he's ruthless enough to do it, as long as he sees a good enough reason for it. What he wouldn't do, I don't think, is arbitrarily murder a bunch of people when there's nothing to gain from it.

I think Petrovsky can match Leng, but given the way people think his character wasn't done justice as a cyborg assassin, that doesn't seem to say much.
And personally, I don't know. The experiments seem to suggest that Cerberus planned to mass convert the stations population into Adjucants for Cerberus to use as an army. That seems tantimount to mass murder. Not something I'd think his character in the comics would condone unless under very extreme circumstances. Unless the General allowed the labs to use only criminals and lawbreakers from the Cerberus jails for the original experiments. Which, I'd admit, there'd be no shortage of in Omega. Though, perhaps he was clueless as to the plan release the Adjucant virus into the entire station.
And compaired to the way he was done in the comic, I cant help but feel they didn't really do Petrovsky justice in the DLC.  His character had a lot of potental in the comics, and while they don't ruin his character, they don't expand on it either. Petrovsky could have been the best DLC villiain since the Shadow Broker, but none of that potental is exploited.  I don't think Petrovsky's character is that big of a con really. To me, the lack of expansion on his character, when there was a lot of potental to do so, is the con for me.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 07 décembre 2012 - 09:03 .

[sg1fan75]

I still can't belive spoiler alert-------------------------




That Aria never mentions Cerberus killed her daughter. I was looking for a little anger over that maybe a I'll kill TIM or something, hell was Nyreen involved in making her daughter seems like a big miss by the writing team.

[silverexile17s]

sg1fan75 wrote...

I still can't belive spoiler alert-------------------------




That Aria never mentions Cerberus killed her daughter. I was looking for a little anger over that maybe a I'll kill TIM or something, hell was Nyreen involved in making her daughter seems like a big miss by the writing team.

Well, Aria never really finds out about what really happened to her daughter. That's an interesting backstory. One that the Talons are actually involved in. (this may take awile, and if anything isn't accurate, let me know)

The Talons (before Nyreen made them honorable) had been raiding Aria's turf, and incroching on her drug trade, in the wake of the power vacume left by the deaths of the Omega station's leaders of the Blood Pack, Blue Suns, and Eclipse: Garm, Jarroth, and Tarek.  Which all died in the attack on Archangel, AKA Garrus, curtosy of Shepard.

In retaliation for the Talons taking more then their share of the drug trade, and hurtung Aria's profits, Aria sent a group to sieze a large quanity of their red sand. This included her daughter, Liselle, and one of her her top enforcers (and Liselle's boyfriend): None other then ex-Cerberus agent turned red sand addict, Paul Grayson.

Grayson has a crisis of conscience, and instead of delivering the red sand stolen from the Talons directly to Aria, (a crook that will just create more addicts, like he was, for the sake of profit) he hides it, then msseges an old friend: Kahlee Sanders, who convinced him to abandon Cerberus, after encountering him again (they ment a few other times before, with Anderson too) during Cerberus' attack on the quarian Migrant Fleet ship, Idenna, and it's scout ship Cyniad (The same ship whose crash site you rescue a quarian from in ME2, after they are shot down by a geth patrol) during Cerberus' mission to recover the young biotic that they had been hunting: His own daughter, Gillian Grayson. 

Paul then reports to Aria on the sucess of the attack on the Talon wherhouse, (though forgoes the condition and location of the red sand) and is invited by Liselle over to her apartment, which he initally turns down, but then instead invites her over to his own apartment, in order to ensure he doesn't slip back into his sand addiction by "replacing one addiction with another."

During Liselle's visit, they are paied a visit by none other then Kai Leng, who the Illusive Man has sent to forceably bring back the defector Grayson, most likely in the hope of forcing the location of his daughter from him. Kai Leng fights them, incapasitating Grayson (but not before he sends an emergency message to Kahlee) and hitting Liselle with a tranq dart, and forcing him to watch as he slits Liselle's throat and leaves her on the bed to bleed to death, where Aria finds her daughter murdered. The track mark from the dart is easily unnoticed, as the area was the same spot where Leng slit her open.

Cerberus takes Grayson back and, after finding that Grayson has no knolodge of his daughters current wherabouts after she left the Ascension Project, directly implants his brain with Reaper nanites, which latch on to his brain tissue. The Illusive Man wishes to study the implants, to find a way to do what Saren and Desolas could not: Control Reaper technology, and use it to better their species.
(Ironic, since the Illusive Man (AKA Jack Harper, before he founded Cerberus) strongly opposed this when Desolas tried it on the turians in the ME: Evolution comics, saying the Reaper tech would devolve them into slave monsters, and that Desolas could never hope to turn it to his will)
He says that Grayson is a sacrifice for the betterment of humanity. But Grayson resists the Reapers control stiffly, so Cerberus gives him repeated injections of prue, consentrated Red Sand to wear down and break his will, so that the Reapers can take full control, and allow the implants to reach full development. Despite his entire body changing (skin so pale it's translucent, with the black-blue circuts visible clearly beneath it in some places) Grayson still desprately fights the Reapers control.

However, Graysons information on Cerberus dealings given by him to Sanders and the Alliance, and shared with the turians, leads directly to the station where Grayson is, and according to the info (unknown source, possibly Miranda after her possible defacton in ME2 if the collector base is destroyed) the turians intercept, they find out the Illusive Man himself is at this station, and launch a full attack. The Illsuive Man is saved from the overwhelming forces by a rescue from Kai Leng, but Grayson is taken captive after the turians discover him, and he breaks from his restrains during the shuttle ride back and kills the shuttle crew. Now under the Reapers full control, Grayson heads to Omega, after getting a message from Kahlee to meet him there.

However, this is a ruse. Cerberus has contacted Aria, telling her that Grayson is a ex-Cerberus agent turned tratior, and that he betrayed her by using his job as her enforcer as a cover to hide (which wasn't really a lie in the beginning), and that he was the one that killed Liselle because she found out, and that they will allow her to kill him as "revenge" for the murder, as long as she helps them stop the rampant, Reaper-controled Grayson, (they leave out the Reaper-controled part, naturally) and that they get the body back (for the Reaper implants).
Her judgement clouded by anger and wrath over the belief that Grayson murdered her daughter, she complies by capturing Kahlee and forcing her to contact Grayson, telling him to come to the station.

However, the plan falls apart, as Aria's mercs are no match for Grayson's implants, and the immence biotics given by them. The Reapers, now with near-full access to Grayson's mind, tear the location of the Ascension project (the group Jack becomes a biotic instructor for) where his daughter Gillian once was, and where many other powerful biotic studants are, which can become Reaperized biotic shock-troops just like Grayson. The Reapers sent Grayson there immedeatly.

Grayson boards Grissom Accadamy, and, using a virus the Reapers developed inside his very implants, shut down the Stations comm network, and transmitts all the Alliance's information on biotic abalities, and human genetics, and their comparison with other races, and everything regarding the Ascension project directly to the Reapers, giving them a huge advantage for when they come to harvest Earth.
However, before everything is transferred, he is attacked by Kahlee, who has brought Anderson to help, as well as Kai Leng, who Anderson captured after he tried to make off of Omega with her, and has forced to help them do to common interest in keeping the Reapers from getting an even bigger adavntage over humanity then they already do.
Grayson fights them, but due to the continuious strain of using the implants, and the exaustion from the fight on Omega with Aria's thugs, Grayson's body begins to fail, the Reaper implants having literally worn it out from overuse. Grayson uses a last heavy biotic push to incapasitate Anderson and Kahlee. The Reapers then focus power into the implants, intending to use Grayson himself as a living indoctrination device. The indoctrination signal is focused on Kahlee, who starts to become enthralled, much to the horror of Anderson, who is still recovering from Graysons attack. Ironicly, She is saved Kai Leng, who has recurted the help of one of the acadamy studants, Nick Donahue, who sends a biotic shockwave that sends Grayson sprawling. Kai Leng takes advantage of this and attacks, but Grayson still overpowers both of them, injuring Nick, and is about to kill Leng, when Anderson attacks him from behind, unloading into hum with a recovered shotgun. His body spent and beyond the implant's abality to repair, the Reapers release control.
Grayson gives a sad, (mounrful, apoligetic) smile, before Kai Leng kills him, shooting him twice in the head with Grayson's own gun.
The resulting attempt to recover Grayson's body by Leng leads to the gunfight with Anderson, in which the later shoots Leng once in each leg, resulting in the artifical muscle implants that we see cover his legs in ME3. Despite the injuries, Leng manages to make it back to a shuttle and escape, albit without Grayson's body. He ends up recovering it later on, after his body recovers and is given new implants.

The results of this storyline: 
Anderson and Kahlee start to develop a relationship.

Leng needs cybernetic enhancement to recover from the fight, which is why he's a cyber-ninja in ME3.

Grayson's recovered body is reverse-engineered and used to create the implants that were used by the Cerberus soldiers ME3

Aria develops a cooperative agreement/partnership with Cerberus, in thanks for "avenging her daughter's death", by letting Cerberus collect data from the Omega-4 Relay, and later, farm for tech from the Collector terratory following the end of the Scuicide Mission at the end of ME2. It is also the reason she trusted Cerberus enough to depart the station for their station beyond Omega-4, and why Cerberus ships were allowed to pass through Omega space. And why she was unprepaired for the sudden attack of Omega following the infestation of the station by Adjucants, which Cerberus released intentonally to lure Aria away, and set the groundwork to seize the station themselves.
(How Cerberus travaled beyond the Omega-4  relay without a Reaper IFF like the Normandy is never explained. Perhaps the anynasis EDI made of it before she was unshakled was used by Cerberus to synthasize a set, or the relay became permenatly unlocked to other ships after the Collector Base was neturlized. No definate explination is ever given)

So, alot of crossing storylines?

Basically, Aria thought her daughters killer was Grayson, and that Cerberus avenged her by Leng killing him. She didn't, and so far, still doesn't seem to know that Leng is actually the one that murdered her.
Her thankfulness in helping to "avenge" the death of her daughter is why she allowed Cerberus travel through Omega space, and the Omega-4 relay. And how Cerberus was able to get the jump on her with the Adjucants and their follow-up invasion.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 07 décembre 2012 - 08:56 .

[sg1fan75]

silverexile17s wrote...

sg1fan75 wrote...

I still can't belive spoiler alert-------------------------




That Aria never mentions Cerberus killed her daughter. I was looking for a little anger over that maybe a I'll kill TIM or something, hell was Nyreen involved in making her daughter seems like a big miss by the writing team.

Well, Aria never really finds out about what really happened to her daughter. That's an interesting backstory. One that the Talons are actually involved in. (this may take awile, and if anything isn't accurate, let me know)

The Talons (before Nyreen made them honorable) had been raiding Aria's turf, and incroching on her drug trade, in the wake of the power vacume left by the deaths of the Omega station's leaders of the Blood Pack, Blue Suns, and Eclipse: Garm, Jarroth, and Tarek.  Which all died in the attack on Archangel, AKA Garrus, curtosy of Shepard.

In retaliation for the Talons taking more then their share of the drug trade, and hurtung Aria's profits, Aria sent a group to sieze a large quanity of their red sand. This included her daughter, Liselle, and one of her her top enforcers (and Liselle's boyfriend): None other then ex-Cerberus agent turned red sand addict, Paul Grayson.

Grayson has a crisis of conscience, and instead of delivering the red sand stolen from the Talons directly to Aria, (a crook that will just create more addicts, like he was, for the sake of profit) he hides it, then msseges an old friend: Kahlee Sanders, who convinced him to abandon Cerberus, after encountering him again (they ment a few other times before, with Anderson too) during Cerberus' attack on the quarian Migrant Fleet ship, Idenna, and it's scout ship Cyniad (The same ship whose crash site you rescue a quarian from in ME2, after they are shot down by a geth patrol) during Cerberus' mission to recover the young biotic that they had been hunting: His own daughter, Gillian Grayson. 

Paul then reports to Aria on the sucess of the attack on the Talon wherhouse, (though forgoes the condition and location of the red sand) and is invited by Liselle over to her apartment, which he initally turns down, but then instead invites her over to his own apartment, in order to ensure he doesn't slip back into his sand addiction by "replacing one addiction with another."

During Liselle's visit, they are paied a visit by none other then Kai Leng, who the Illusive Man has sent to forceably bring back the defector Grayson, most likely in the hope of forcing the location of his daughter from him. Kai Leng fights them, incapasitating Grayson (but not before he sends an emergency message to Kahlee) and hitting Liselle with a tranq dart, and forcing him to watch as he slits Liselle's throat and leaves her on the bed to bleed to death, where Aria finds her daughter murdered. The track mark from the dart is easily unnoticed, as the area was the same spot where Leng slit her open.

Cerberus takes Grayson back and, after finding that Grayson has no knolodge of his daughters current wherabouts after she left the Ascension Project, directly implants his brain with Reaper nanites, which latch on to his brain tissue. The Illusive Man wishes to study the implants, to find a way to do what Saren and Desolas could not: Control Reaper technology, and use it to better their species.
(Ironic, since the Illusive Man (AKA Jack Harper, before he founded Cerberus) strongly opposed this when Desolas tried it on the turians in the ME: Evolution comics, saying the Reaper tech would devolve them into slave monsters, and that Desolas could never hope to turn it to his will)
He says that Grayson is a sacrifice for the betterment of humanity. But Grayson resists the Reapers control stiffly, so Cerberus gives him repeated injections of prue, consentrated Red Sand to wear down and break his will, so that the Reapers can take full control, and allow the implants to reach full development. Despite his entire body changing (skin so pale it's translucent, with the black-blue circuts visible clearly beneath it in some places) Grayson still desprately fights the Reapers control.

However, Graysons information on Cerberus dealings given by him to Sanders and the Alliance, and shared with the turians, leads directly to the station where Grayson is, and according to the info (unknown source, possibly Miranda after her possible defacton in ME2 if the collector base is destroyed) the turians intercept, they find out the Illusive Man himself is at this station, and launch a full attack. The Illsuive Man is saved from the overwhelming forces by a rescue from Kai Leng, but Grayson is taken captive after the turians discover him, and he breaks from his restrains during the shuttle ride back and kills the shuttle crew. Now under the Reapers full control, Grayson heads to Omega, after getting a message from Kahlee to meet him there.

However, this is a ruse. Cerberus has contacted Aria, telling her that Grayson is a ex-Cerberus agent turned tratior, and that he betrayed her by using his job as her enforcer as a cover to hide (which wasn't really a lie in the beginning), and that he was the one that killed Liselle because she found out, and that they will allow her to kill him as "revenge" for the murder, as long as she helps them stop the rampant, Reaper-controled Grayson, (they leave out the Reaper-controled part, naturally) and that they get the body back (for the Reaper implants).
Her judgement clouded by anger and wrath over the belief that Grayson murdered her daughter, she complies by capturing Kahlee and forcing her to contact Grayson, telling him to come to the station.

However, the plan falls apart, as Aria's mercs are no match for Grayson's implants, and the immence biotics given by them. The Reapers, now with near-full access to Grayson's mind, tear the location of the Ascension project (the group Jack becomes a biotic instructor for) where his daughter Gillian once was, and where many other powerful biotic studants are, which can become Reaperized biotic shock-troops just like Grayson. The Reapers sent Grayson there immedeatly.

Grayson boards Grissom Accadamy, and, using a virus the Reapers developed inside his very implants, shut down the Stations comm network, and transmitts all the Alliance's information on biotic abalities, and human genetics, and their comparison with other races, and everything regarding the Ascension project directly to the Reapers, giving them a huge advantage for when they come to harvest Earth.
However, before everything is transferred, he is attacked by Kahlee, who has brought Anderson to help, as well as Kai Leng, who Anderson captured after he tried to make off of Omega with her, and has forced to help them do to common interest in keeping the Reapers from getting an even bigger adavntage over humanity then they already do.
Grayson fights them, but due to the continuious strain of using the implants, and the exaustion from the fight on Omega with Aria's thugs, Grayson's body begins to fail, the Reaper implants having literally worn it out from overuse. Grayson uses a last heavy biotic push to incapasitate Anderson and Kahlee. The Reapers then focus power into the implants, intending to use Grayson himself as a living indoctrination device. The indoctrination signal is focused on Kahlee, who starts to become enthralled, much to the horror of Anderson, who is still recovering from Graysons attack. Ironicly, She is saved Kai Leng, who has recurted the help of one of the acadamy studants, Nick Donahue, who sends a biotic shockwave that sends Grayson sprawling. Kai Leng takes advantage of this and attacks, but Grayson still overpowers both of them, injuring Nick, and is about to kill Leng, when Anderson attacks him from behind, unloading into hum with a recovered shotgun. His body spent and beyond the implant's abality to repair, the Reapers release control.
Grayson gives a sad, (mounrful, apoligetic) smile, before Kai Leng kills him, shooting him twice in the head with Grayson's own gun.
The resulting attempt to recover Grayson's body by Leng leads to the gunfight with Anderson, in which the later shoots Leng once in each leg, resulting in the artifical muscle implants that we see cover his legs in ME3. Despite the injuries, Leng manages to make it back to a shuttle and escape, albit without Grayson's body. He ends up recovering it later on, after his body recovers and is given new implants.

The results of this storyline: 
Anderson and Kahlee start to develop a relationship.

Leng needs cybernetic enhancement to recover from the fight, which is why he's a cyber-ninja in ME3.

Grayson's recovered body is reverse-engineered and used to create the implants that were used by the Cerberus soldiers ME3

Aria develops a cooperative agreement/partnership with Cerberus, in thanks for "avenging her daughter's death", by letting Cerberus collect data from the Omega-4 Relay, and later, farm for tech from the Collector terratory following the end of the Scuicide Mission at the end of ME2. It is also the reason she trusted Cerberus enough to depart the station for their station beyond Omega-4, and why Cerberus ships were allowed to pass through Omega space. And why she was unprepaired for the sudden attack of Omega following the infestation of the station by Adjucants, which Cerberus released intentonally to lure Aria away, and set the groundwork to seize the station themselves.
(How Cerberus travaled beyond the Omega-4  relay without a Reaper IFF like the Normandy is never explained. Perhaps the anynasis EDI made of it before she was unshakled was used by Cerberus to synthasize a set, or the relay became permenatly unlocked to other ships after the Collector Base was neturlized. No definate explination is ever given)

So, alot of crossing storylines?

Basically, Aria thought her daughters killer was Grayson, and that Cerberus avenged her by Leng killing him. She didn't, and so far, still doesn't seem to know that Leng is actually the one that murdered her.
Her thankfulness in helping to "avenge" the death of her daughter is why she allowed Cerberus travel through Omega space, and the Omega-4 relay. And how Cerberus was able to get the jump on her with the Adjucants and their follow-up invasion.

Thanks for the Info, maybe our friend the shadow broker could inform her about who killed her daughter, that would will never happen but I like the little detales.

[silverexile17s]

sg1fan75 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

sg1fan75 wrote...

I still can't belive spoiler alert-------------------------




That Aria never mentions Cerberus killed her daughter. I was looking for a little anger over that maybe a I'll kill TIM or something, hell was Nyreen involved in making her daughter seems like a big miss by the writing team.

Well, Aria never really finds out about what really happened to her daughter. That's an interesting backstory. One that the Talons are actually involved in. (this may take awile, and if anything isn't accurate, let me know)

The Talons (before Nyreen made them honorable) had been raiding Aria's turf, and incroching on her drug trade, in the wake of the power vacume left by the deaths of the Omega station's leaders of the Blood Pack, Blue Suns, and Eclipse: Garm, Jarroth, and Tarek.  Which all died in the attack on Archangel, AKA Garrus, curtosy of Shepard.

In retaliation for the Talons taking more then their share of the drug trade, and hurtung Aria's profits, Aria sent a group to sieze a large quanity of their red sand. This included her daughter, Liselle, and one of her her top enforcers (and Liselle's boyfriend): None other then ex-Cerberus agent turned red sand addict, Paul Grayson.

Grayson has a crisis of conscience, and instead of delivering the red sand stolen from the Talons directly to Aria, (a crook that will just create more addicts, like he was, for the sake of profit) he hides it, then msseges an old friend: Kahlee Sanders, who convinced him to abandon Cerberus, after encountering him again (they ment a few other times before, with Anderson too) during Cerberus' attack on the quarian Migrant Fleet ship, Idenna, and it's scout ship Cyniad (The same ship whose crash site you rescue a quarian from in ME2, after they are shot down by a geth patrol) during Cerberus' mission to recover the young biotic that they had been hunting: His own daughter, Gillian Grayson. 

Paul then reports to Aria on the sucess of the attack on the Talon wherhouse, (though forgoes the condition and location of the red sand) and is invited by Liselle over to her apartment, which he initally turns down, but then instead invites her over to his own apartment, in order to ensure he doesn't slip back into his sand addiction by "replacing one addiction with another."

During Liselle's visit, they are paied a visit by none other then Kai Leng, who the Illusive Man has sent to forceably bring back the defector Grayson, most likely in the hope of forcing the location of his daughter from him. Kai Leng fights them, incapasitating Grayson (but not before he sends an emergency message to Kahlee) and hitting Liselle with a tranq dart, and forcing him to watch as he slits Liselle's throat and leaves her on the bed to bleed to death, where Aria finds her daughter murdered. The track mark from the dart is easily unnoticed, as the area was the same spot where Leng slit her open.

Cerberus takes Grayson back and, after finding that Grayson has no knolodge of his daughters current wherabouts after she left the Ascension Project, directly implants his brain with Reaper nanites, which latch on to his brain tissue. The Illusive Man wishes to study the implants, to find a way to do what Saren and Desolas could not: Control Reaper technology, and use it to better their species.
(Ironic, since the Illusive Man (AKA Jack Harper, before he founded Cerberus) strongly opposed this when Desolas tried it on the turians in the ME: Evolution comics, saying the Reaper tech would devolve them into slave monsters, and that Desolas could never hope to turn it to his will)
He says that Grayson is a sacrifice for the betterment of humanity. But Grayson resists the Reapers control stiffly, so Cerberus gives him repeated injections of prue, consentrated Red Sand to wear down and break his will, so that the Reapers can take full control, and allow the implants to reach full development. Despite his entire body changing (skin so pale it's translucent, with the black-blue circuts visible clearly beneath it in some places) Grayson still desprately fights the Reapers control.

However, Graysons information on Cerberus dealings given by him to Sanders and the Alliance, and shared with the turians, leads directly to the station where Grayson is, and according to the info (unknown source, possibly Miranda after her possible defacton in ME2 if the collector base is destroyed) the turians intercept, they find out the Illusive Man himself is at this station, and launch a full attack. The Illsuive Man is saved from the overwhelming forces by a rescue from Kai Leng, but Grayson is taken captive after the turians discover him, and he breaks from his restrains during the shuttle ride back and kills the shuttle crew. Now under the Reapers full control, Grayson heads to Omega, after getting a message from Kahlee to meet him there.

However, this is a ruse. Cerberus has contacted Aria, telling her that Grayson is a ex-Cerberus agent turned tratior, and that he betrayed her by using his job as her enforcer as a cover to hide (which wasn't really a lie in the beginning), and that he was the one that killed Liselle because she found out, and that they will allow her to kill him as "revenge" for the murder, as long as she helps them stop the rampant, Reaper-controled Grayson, (they leave out the Reaper-controled part, naturally) and that they get the body back (for the Reaper implants).
Her judgement clouded by anger and wrath over the belief that Grayson murdered her daughter, she complies by capturing Kahlee and forcing her to contact Grayson, telling him to come to the station.

However, the plan falls apart, as Aria's mercs are no match for Grayson's implants, and the immence biotics given by them. The Reapers, now with near-full access to Grayson's mind, tear the location of the Ascension project (the group Jack becomes a biotic instructor for) where his daughter Gillian once was, and where many other powerful biotic studants are, which can become Reaperized biotic shock-troops just like Grayson. The Reapers sent Grayson there immedeatly.

Grayson boards Grissom Accadamy, and, using a virus the Reapers developed inside his very implants, shut down the Stations comm network, and transmitts all the Alliance's information on biotic abalities, and human genetics, and their comparison with other races, and everything regarding the Ascension project directly to the Reapers, giving them a huge advantage for when they come to harvest Earth.
However, before everything is transferred, he is attacked by Kahlee, who has brought Anderson to help, as well as Kai Leng, who Anderson captured after he tried to make off of Omega with her, and has forced to help them do to common interest in keeping the Reapers from getting an even bigger adavntage over humanity then they already do.
Grayson fights them, but due to the continuious strain of using the implants, and the exaustion from the fight on Omega with Aria's thugs, Grayson's body begins to fail, the Reaper implants having literally worn it out from overuse. Grayson uses a last heavy biotic push to incapasitate Anderson and Kahlee. The Reapers then focus power into the implants, intending to use Grayson himself as a living indoctrination device. The indoctrination signal is focused on Kahlee, who starts to become enthralled, much to the horror of Anderson, who is still recovering from Graysons attack. Ironicly, She is saved Kai Leng, who has recurted the help of one of the acadamy studants, Nick Donahue, who sends a biotic shockwave that sends Grayson sprawling. Kai Leng takes advantage of this and attacks, but Grayson still overpowers both of them, injuring Nick, and is about to kill Leng, when Anderson attacks him from behind, unloading into hum with a recovered shotgun. His body spent and beyond the implant's abality to repair, the Reapers release control.
Grayson gives a sad, (mounrful, apoligetic) smile, before Kai Leng kills him, shooting him twice in the head with Grayson's own gun.
The resulting attempt to recover Grayson's body by Leng leads to the gunfight with Anderson, in which the later shoots Leng once in each leg, resulting in the artifical muscle implants that we see cover his legs in ME3. Despite the injuries, Leng manages to make it back to a shuttle and escape, albit without Grayson's body. He ends up recovering it later on, after his body recovers and is given new implants.

The results of this storyline: 
Anderson and Kahlee start to develop a relationship.

Leng needs cybernetic enhancement to recover from the fight, which is why he's a cyber-ninja in ME3.

Grayson's recovered body is reverse-engineered and used to create the implants that were used by the Cerberus soldiers ME3

Aria develops a cooperative agreement/partnership with Cerberus, in thanks for "avenging her daughter's death", by letting Cerberus collect data from the Omega-4 Relay, and later, farm for tech from the Collector terratory following the end of the Scuicide Mission at the end of ME2. It is also the reason she trusted Cerberus enough to depart the station for their station beyond Omega-4, and why Cerberus ships were allowed to pass through Omega space. And why she was unprepaired for the sudden attack of Omega following the infestation of the station by Adjucants, which Cerberus released intentonally to lure Aria away, and set the groundwork to seize the station themselves.
(How Cerberus travaled beyond the Omega-4  relay without a Reaper IFF like the Normandy is never explained. Perhaps the anynasis EDI made of it before she was unshakled was used by Cerberus to synthasize a set, or the relay became permenatly unlocked to other ships after the Collector Base was neturlized. No definate explination is ever given)

So, alot of crossing storylines?

Basically, Aria thought her daughters killer was Grayson, and that Cerberus avenged her by Leng killing him. She didn't, and so far, still doesn't seem to know that Leng is actually the one that murdered her.
Her thankfulness in helping to "avenge" the death of her daughter is why she allowed Cerberus travel through Omega space, and the Omega-4 relay. And how Cerberus was able to get the jump on her with the Adjucants and their follow-up invasion.

Thanks for the Info, maybe our friend the shadow broker could inform her about who killed her daughter, that would will never happen but I like the little detales.

Actually, something just like that was supposed to happen in ME: Deception. But it contridicted events in the ME: Invasion comics, so that scene was retconned with many other parts of the book