263 réponses à ce sujet

[DirtySHISN0]

While i was totally puzzled by Nyreen's needless sacrifice, I neither cared about her or it and ceased to think about it seconds after it happened.

She's with her brother, general grievous, now. (its the eyes)

[AllThatJazz]

Is everyone totally sure she's dead? When I first saw that scene, I assumed she set off the explosives, then covered herself in her biotic bubble thing to prevent damage, and then disappreared the way she did in Aria's HQ when Bray was supposed to be looking after her - after all, she's done her part now, and proved to Aria that she can face down the Adjutants. It's probably in her interest to vanish for a while and keep a sneaky eye on Aria.

True, she may be dead, but I'm certainly not assuming that she is.

[LilLino]

CodyMelch wrote...

Read up mate. She did this so that the civilians would not be caught in the blast of the grenades and that no civies were caught in a crossfire of a firefight if she did move out of the way. She summoned a barrier around herself and the Adj's. So that the explosion would cause more damage via being done in a closed in space. And with the shield around them no civilians would be caught in the blast.

Also she did not know Shep and Aria was there till after she had the barrier up and the nades were set to go. Even then I'd reckon she would do it due to Civilians being in the area and she would not want them to be caught in the blast or in the crossfire of a fight between Them and the Adjudants.

Quite understandable really. Not like the Kai leng vs Sick Thane fight where Shep and co just stand there after Kai gets sent flying by Thanes biotic b!tch slap.


And before it gets said. No, normally just throwing grenades at the adjudants would not work. They are tough sob's as shon more clearly in the comics. They needed to be near quite a bit and the blast would need to be increased. Which it was when she summoned up the barrier due to explosions being far deadlier in a closed in area. This way there would be little to no chance of civvies getting caught in a crossfire or indangered by surviving adjudants.

2 things I can't agree with in your post.

a) She knew Shepard&Aria were coming, she spoke to them on the radio like 20s prior.

Don't tell me how unbeatable adjudants are. I wanted her to throw grenades@them not necesarrily to kill them but to make them follow her and lure them away from civillians and into alliied fire. You know, like soldier should.


I'm not saying her death didn't achieve anything, but it was unnecessarly and I don't like it when characters throw their lives away like that instead of trying to fight. She was a good soldier with big kill count supported by an army, Shepard and Aria and she decided to do a suicide run.

Modifié par LilLino, 29 novembre 2012 - 02:26 .

[Cody]

Again this has been said. The grandes would not have done much damage and the blast radius would have most likely would have hurt nearby civilians. Keeping them in close quarters with tight spacing while a whole bunch of grenades go off is a sure fire way to kill them all and without having civilians getting caught in the radius.

And no she did not know Shep and Aria were coming. She went silent and told them she had to check something. For all she knew they could still be a ways back.

[BarrelDrago]

@CodyMelch what was aria plan to do with the civilian again?

[Cody]

Doesn't matter what her plan was. Nyreen cared about the well being of the civilians which is why she did what she did.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Samtheman63 wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's a biotic power. She couldn't hold it forever.

I think a lot of people misinterpretted that scene. It looks as though she TRAPPED the adjutants in her Biotic Protector bubble, so that only her and the adjutants would be affected by the bombs. She did it to protect the civilians, which ties back to her entire arc in this DLC of "saving innocents".

I dunno, I thought her death was handled alright. Even better to see Aria get reaaallly angry afterward, truly showing affection for someone other than herself for once.

someone talking sense for once

The field seemed to be for trapping the blast in, which, if  you think about it, is retarded. In the end it was just a belt of grenades, hardly enough to harm the station or anyone other than the Adjutants.

Also, Nyreen was deathly afraid of Adjutants and those people she was trying to save were already dead, so there was no reason for her to do what she did. Really, the way she died made no sense.

[BarrelDrago]

@CodyMelch it wouldn mater what the plans was if she wasn aware of it, unfortunatly she was. Willingly going to use civilian as human shields.

There for she was willing to risk civilian life, but unwilling to risk civilian life.

Dont you see the logical flaw here?

[Cody]

BarrelDrago wrote...

@CodyMelch it wouldn mater what the plans was if she wasn aware of it, unfortunatly she was. Willingly going to use civilian as human shields.

There for she was willing to risk civilian life, but unwilling to risk civilian life.

Dont you see the logical flaw here?

Don't you see the straw grab? It wasn't her idea for the civilians to be used as shields. The shields were taken down so the Talons and Aria's men can move in while the civilians revolted. Nyreen wanted to protect the civilians and did not want any to get hurt. She did her best to protect them throughout the entire assault.

And did so to the end.

[BarrelDrago]

@CodyMelch therefor unwilling to kill aria to stop her  from willingly arming civilian and suiccid herself to save 5 about to be arm civilian.

[Taboo]

No, Alien Resurrection was unforgivable. What a horrible, horrible peace of crap.

[Cody]

BarrelDrago wrote...

@CodyMelch therefor unwilling to kill aria to stop her  from willingly arming civilian and suiccid herself to save 5 about to be arm civilian.

It would not change a thing if she did kill Aria. Actually it would make things worse. Aria's men would give Nyreen and Shep the finger and it would significantly lower Omega's chances at beating Cerberus without a powerful force backing the Talons up. And in the end they would STILL need the shields down since it was because of those shields that they could not lead a successful assault on Cerberus. And the Civilians would still revolt and put themselves in danger because taking those shields down is a must to win. While killing Aria would mean any effort would be futile because with Aria gone her forces will leave.

[N7puscN7]

Unlogical.

[BarrelDrago]

@CodyMelch  and now you finaly reach the lvl of analyse that we are at. What was the priority? taking down Ceberus or saving civilian?

If saving civilian was the priority killing aria stoping her and her force from arming civilian would have been a must.

But if stoping Ceberus was the priority, the maximum number of operative should have been saved to strike at them including herself.

Either way there is logicflaw

[Cody]

BarrelDrago wrote...

@CodyMelch  and now you finaly reach the lvl of analyse that we are at. What was the priority? taking down Ceberus or saving civilian?

If saving civilian was the priority killing aria stoping her and her force from arming civilian would have been a must.

But if stoping Ceberus was the priority, the maximum number of operative should have been saved to strike at them including herself.

Either way there is logicflaw

Nope. For the longer Cerberus was around the more civilians are taken in and turned into adjudants. The civilians were also helping in the fight to kick Cerberus off their home. And Aria did not arm the civilians. They armed themselves. They chose to fight. Killing Aria would not change this. She had no way of arming the civilians since the majority of them were, you know, surrounded by barriers.

In the end they chose to fight. Nyreen wants to protect them because she cares for the innocent civilians and since they do not have that much experience in fighting like this. And it was a good thing too since if any civilians were wounded and taken away there would have been a good chance that they would be turned into adjudants. And it would of been easier for that to happen since they are not as well trained or as experienced in assaults like this.

But in the end they chose to fight. Aria did not force them. And killing Aria is foolish since you would lose a Matriarch and her forces.

[Robhuzz]

Hmm just watched a vid about it on youtube. Is that really how she dies in the game? There's no music, no... nothing. She just stands on top of a bomb to kill 4 reaperized goons, bomb goes off and... we're done? Seriously?

I haven't played the dlc but that one scene alone just looked as if EAware thought: 'Yeah we need her dead so people won't start asking why she won't become a permanent squadmember after the dlc'

[Humakt83]

Arcian wrote...

Her blowing herself up was bad enough when there was no indication she needed to. Her unique power MAKES HER IMMUNE TO DAMAGE.

But to add insult to injury... she's not even mentioned in the end. Not even once. It's like Aria forgot she even existed.

Typical goddamn Super MAC writing. My jimmies have never been this rustled.

If you didn't understand that scene, her motives and purpose, maybe you should stick to playing something that you can grasp more easily.

Modifié par Humakt83, 29 novembre 2012 - 09:54 .

[BarrelDrago]

CodyMelch wrote...

Nope. For the longer Cerberus was around the more civilians are taken in and turned into adjudants. The civilians were also helping in the fight to kick Cerberus off their home. And Aria did not arm the civilians. They armed themselves. They chose to fight. Killing Aria would not change this. She had no way of arming the civilians since the majority of them were, you know, surrounded by barriers.

In the end they chose to fight. Nyreen wants to protect them because she cares for the innocent civilians and since they do not have that much experience in fighting like this. And it was a good thing too since if any civilians were wounded and taken away there would have been a good chance that they would be turned into adjudants. And it would of been easier for that to happen since they are not as well trained or as experienced in assaults like this.

But in the end they chose to fight. Aria did not force them. And killing Aria is foolish since you would lose a Matriarch and her forces.

@CodyMelch Aria arm the civilian by giving them the opportunity to fight back by transforming them into canon fodder by opening the barrier. It was that decision to sacrifice a number of civilian for a greater goal that dosen follow the logic to sacrifice everything to save them. The logical way for her to free the civilian whitout risking casulty would have been to hit the camp on at the time neutralising the Ceberus force and than freeing the civilian. This was not the plan, the plan was to open every single cell and let a revolte broke los. letting litteraly unarmed civilian have to fight armed and trained Ceberus force. Going therefor against her morality of sacrificing everything to keep her people safe.

No in the end she chose to die, those 5 man and woman were not the full population of omega wasting her potential and her mastery of infiltration for the destruction of a few ennemy. It would have make sence if they were the only adjudants left or the only civiliant left in need on the space station. Unfortunatly the odd of that are insanely slim. Was it logical to waste a combat specialist in the hope to stop some adjudants from reproducing or to lose this same combat specialist in the hope that she wouldn be require to save more? You have bring up a interesting point of pointing out that she was probobly the only military personnel aboard to be able to deal with those creature, now that she is gone what will they do if those were not the last one?

The chose to fight becose they were all free at the same time. Your last comment dosen make sence since they do not shair the same goal, such argument could also be use to boast the reason to keep the reaper. "And killing the reaper is foolish since you would lose a army of sentiment machine and Ther forces.
"

[Sapeinus]

Nah, I thought her death fit the rest of the story quite well. And seeing Aria rush ahead after added more to the overall impact. Then saving Aria... well done.

I'm so sick of the "logicflaw" crowd. Mass Effect has never been that kind of story. Come to think of it, I'm hard pressed to remember any work of fiction that passed my own way of seeing things as reasonable to believe and make sense to me in every way. So maybe I'm just used to overlooking such things, trying to make everything fit my way, instead just going with and enjoying some great works of fiction, like ME.

Modifié par Sapeinus, 29 novembre 2012 - 11:18 .

[The Aesthetic Ghant]

Not entirely sure how so many of you can just speed over this detail but....I don't think people are mad that she died for what she believed in. It's that she seemed to be thrown under the bus completely out of nowhere. The way that she died was simply a convenience.

She did not NEED to die for there to be a satisfactory ending imo.


It was unnecessary.

[BetrayerOfNihil]

I hate things that fall out of our control. I know that her actions were pretty much in character, but I wish there could have been some way to get to the civilians in time so she wouldn't have to sacrifice herself.

Was bothered the second time I played Mass Effect and raced my ass to the space port as quickly as I could, with a minimum of dialogue, skipping the shack with the two scientists, and found that I couldn't make it to Nihlus in time. It's scripted. This feels the same way, like Victus as well. No matter how fast you are, no matter how hard you try, no matter how many things you do to make the mission easier, Nyreen's death is unavoidable.

I was relieved to know that you can actually get Kirrahe off of Virmire alive if you take out the base's defenses and stuff. There needs to be more things like that, where through good effort and paying attention to goals you can have better outcomes.

Humakt83 wrote...
If you didn't understand that scene, her motives and purpose, maybe you should stick to playing something that you can grasp more easily.

Maybe you should grasp your dick and **** off.

[The Aesthetic Ghant]

BetrayerOfNihil wrote...

I hate things that fall out of our control. I know that her actions were pretty much in character, but I wish there could have been some way to get to the civilians in time so she wouldn't have to sacrifice herself.

Was bothered the second time I played Mass Effect and raced my ass to the space port as quickly as I could, with a minimum of dialogue, skipping the shack with the two scientists, and found that I couldn't make it to Nihlus in time. It's scripted. This feels the same way, like Victus as well. No matter how fast you are, no matter how hard you try, no matter how many things you do to make the mission easier, Nyreen's death is unavoidable.

I was relieved to know that you can actually get Kirrahe off of Virmire alive if you take out the base's defenses and stuff. There needs to be more things like that, where through good effort and paying attention to goals you can have better outcomes.

Humakt83 wrote...
If you didn't understand that scene, her motives and purpose, maybe you should stick to playing something that you can grasp more easily.

Maybe you should grasp your dick and **** off.

[Cody]

BarrelDrago wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

Nope. For the longer Cerberus was around the more civilians are taken in and turned into adjudants. The civilians were also helping in the fight to kick Cerberus off their home. And Aria did not arm the civilians. They armed themselves. They chose to fight. Killing Aria would not change this. She had no way of arming the civilians since the majority of them were, you know, surrounded by barriers.

In the end they chose to fight. Nyreen wants to protect them because she cares for the innocent civilians and since they do not have that much experience in fighting like this. And it was a good thing too since if any civilians were wounded and taken away there would have been a good chance that they would be turned into adjudants. And it would of been easier for that to happen since they are not as well trained or as experienced in assaults like this.

But in the end they chose to fight. Aria did not force them. And killing Aria is foolish since you would lose a Matriarch and her forces.

@CodyMelch Aria arm the civilian by giving them the opportunity to fight back by transforming them into canon fodder by opening the barrier. It was that decision to sacrifice a number of civilian for a greater goal that dosen follow the logic to sacrifice everything to save them. The logical way for her to free the civilian whitout risking casulty would have been to hit the camp on at the time neutralising the Ceberus force and than freeing the civilian. This was not the plan, the plan was to open every single cell and let a revolte broke los. letting litteraly unarmed civilian have to fight armed and trained Ceberus force. Going therefor against her morality of sacrificing everything to keep her people safe.

No in the end she chose to die, those 5 man and woman were not the full population of omega wasting her potential and her mastery of infiltration for the destruction of a few ennemy. It would have make sence if they were the only adjudants left or the only civiliant left in need on the space station. Unfortunatly the odd of that are insanely slim. Was it logical to waste a combat specialist in the hope to stop some adjudants from reproducing or to lose this same combat specialist in the hope that she wouldn be require to save more? You have bring up a interesting point of pointing out that she was probobly the only military personnel aboard to be able to deal with those creature, now that she is gone what will they do if those were not the last one?

The chose to fight becose they were all free at the same time. Your last comment dosen make sence since they do not shair the same goal, such argument could also be use to boast the reason to keep the reaper. "And killing the reaper is foolish since you would lose a army of sentiment machine and Ther forces.
"

Again, it was there decision. They are not mindless drones. You cannont blame Aria for them wanting to fight. And the barrier needed to be opened in order for Talon and Aria's forces to move in. Did you even play the dlc? You can't just shut one off. They all have to be shut off. That was the point. The civilians still chose to fight, they didn't have to but they did. But the barriers needed to be taken down. That is a fact. One that was stated, and explained multiple times in the dlc.

And she wanted to save as many of those civilians as she could. And she did not want to see anyone else be transformed into an adjudant. Thus she took them out before that could happen. And I never said that she was the only one capable of dealing with them. Mainly because that is stupid and wrong in so many ways. Aria has the most experience with them so if anything SHE is the one to be kept around in case of fighting them. Especially with her experience.

More strawman eh? They chose to fight because they wanted to. Whatever  their reasons are. They did not fight because a whole bunch of them wanted to, they all fought because they wanted to. As evident by them, you know, charging at Cerberus troops, attacking them, shooting at them, etc. It is ridiculous to think that they only fought because they were released. They would not have been shot at otherwise. They fought because they wanted to. That is a fact, get over it. And it is because of that reasoning that your conclusion is a load of crap and makes no sense to what you are trying to link it too. I am stating the fact that the civilians fought because they wanted too so suddenly that makes it seem like I am saying killing a reaper is wrong because it is part of a sentient army? Wtf kind of reasoning is that?

Modifié par CodyMelch, 30 novembre 2012 - 02:25 .

[Leonia]

As someone mentioned earlier, if her death was so necessary, why not do it during the reactor sequence? That would have allowed for player choice and would have had far more impact on both Shepard and Aria. As it is, it feels tacked on and doesn't lead any where. Many of us spent the whole DLC thinking we could replace Aria with Nyreen or at least have Nyreen there to keep Aria in line at the end. Granted, we had no reason to believe that would happen but story-wise it would have made a lot of sense. It feels like a lot of Nyreen's efforts went to waste, we can't know for sure that Aria will change her ways and now there's a power vaccum to fill for the Talons (and maybe they won't keep a high ethical standard any more). What did Nyreen's sacrifice contribute to the narrative? Was it necessary? Had the player been forced to choose between saving her or civilians (and risk her wrath afterwards if she is spared), that would have had a bigger impact than saving a handful of civilians that were doomed to die otherwise. As Aria said, some civilian casualties were going to happen regardless.

Modifié par leonia42, 30 novembre 2012 - 02:28 .

[BarrelDrago]

well as we can clearly see in this part http://youtu.be/CNu4fleEfnc?t=12m20s where we see how the civilian are held they could clearly be extract by other mean than cutting power to the field, as aria and Nyreen show there is a lot of way to get arrownd the station. Also you can indeed  blame Aria as she and Nyreen both knew what a mass release of civilian wich they obviusely knew what was about to happen to them. And by the way yes i did play the dlc.

Now you are contradicting yourself, you said earlyer that she had to take them out being one of the few that could do so therefor giving her sacrifice a reason. Now you state the opposite. Either way having 2 specialiste would be alway better then just having 1 again not kowing how many of those thing who were left.

sorry i thought you would have seen the paralelisme in your last statement as follow : "But in the end they chose to fight. Aria did not force them. And killing Aria is foolish since you would lose a Matriarch and her forces. " to "And killing the reaper is foolish since you would lose a army of sentiment machine and Ther forces."  It was indeed subtile but still am surprise you miss it.

The civilian were force to fight i indeed saw the krogan charging blindly at the engenier as they and a batarian civilian backed away in fear of the incoming charge, now let me ask you a question. When a prison break happen what happen to people staying on the side line? Now let look at the usuall Ceberus commander what would be the logical action to do in such situation. This is not a speculation, this is standart military procedure.