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[xen0saur]

In the Abandonned Thaig you could access from Sundermount in DA 2, there was a strange Golem merchant you could find that had some pretty strange lines.
"Amgarrak tapped the blood, spilled within the Stone."
"The Stone lives beneath Orlais. Mathas gar na fornen pa salroka atrast."
"We were once more than we are."
"The Gauntlet is passed. Only a Shaperate can bring the light. Conversion begins..."

They are all rather odd, but the two that strike me the most are the first two. We know that we're going to be visiting Orlais (Orlais presumably being central to the plot), so could this be hinting at something stirring beneath Orlais? Maybe something tied to Blood Magic, something that could change the tide of the Mage/Templar war?
We know the Stone is to do with the Dwarves and their beliefs, they speak as though the Stone is alive, so maybe it could be that their current beliefs spawned from something a lot more literal. As in an actual living Stone being that seemed Godlike to them?

I'm not sure, I'm just speculating here, but I'd like to hear what you guys think about this. Am I crazy, or do you agree? Or do you have other ideas?

(Also, I'm aware there was a Origins DLC that took place in Amgarrak but I never got around to buying it, so if those lines have something to do with that rather than some vague hints to DA 3, I would greatly appreciate knowthing that and ending my crazy theory,  )

[whykikyouwhy]

I dusted off a couple of old speculations of mine, because the Nexus Golem has always been intriguing. I've pondered whether or not his "name" was meant to be play upon the definition of "nexus" - which means "connected series or group, or a means of connection." And that sort of led into another theory I had - that the magister raid on the Golden City was coordinated at several entry points. Maybe there was a golem at each. Maybe the golem itself is a tie between the worlds (figurative and literal) of elves and dwarves.

It's quite possible that there's a tie between the Stone and blood magic, or perhaps whatever the red lyrium is. If "blood" was spilled on the Stone, maybe a deep and powerful lyrium vein was corrupted somehow, or infused with something (spirit, demon, entity, presence) - it might explain why the lyrium idol in DA2 does what it does, and why people react to it in the manner that they do. So...perhaps the core vein runs beneath Orlais, and thus, with some entity within it, it essentially "lives."

[Herr Uhl]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

If "blood" was spilled on the Stone, maybe a deep and powerful lyrium vein was corrupted somehow, or infused with something (spirit, demon, entity, presence) - it might explain why the lyrium idol in DA2 does what it does, and why people react to it in the manner that they do. So...perhaps the core vein runs beneath Orlais, and thus, with some entity within it, it essentially "lives."

I think that part might just be as dull as a reference to the creation of the harvesters. With the namedrop and everything.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Herr Uhl wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

If "blood" was spilled on the Stone, maybe a deep and powerful lyrium vein was corrupted somehow, or infused with something (spirit, demon, entity, presence) - it might explain why the lyrium idol in DA2 does what it does, and why people react to it in the manner that they do. So...perhaps the core vein runs beneath Orlais, and thus, with some entity within it, it essentially "lives."

I think that part might just be as dull as a reference to the creation of the harvesters. With the namedrop and everything.

The only thing about this theory is that Golems were allegedly created after the Darkspawn came along. So before Caridain made golems during the first blight, the golden city was breached. 

However, there were also golems in the primeival thaig and the "ghost golem" from Bertrand's red lyrium fragment, which points to golems being created some other way long long long before the first blight. (granted, there were also inexplicably lore-breaking/out of context flesh and blood "abominations" in the thaig so who knows. 

Maybe the true intent of the research at Amgarrak was to tap into how golems were initally made before Caridain discovered how to turn dwarves into golems? 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 27 novembre 2012 - 11:41 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Herr Uhl wrote...

I think that part might just be as dull as a reference to the creation of the harvesters. With the namedrop and everything.

Well, sure. But that's what makes speculation so much fun - it polishes up the dull.

[xen0saur]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

It's quite possible that there's a tie between the Stone and blood magic, or perhaps whatever the red lyrium is. If "blood" was spilled on the Stone, maybe a deep and powerful lyrium vein was corrupted somehow, or infused with something (spirit, demon, entity, presence) - it might explain why the lyrium idol in DA2 does what it does, and why people react to it in the manner that they do. So...perhaps the core vein runs beneath Orlais, and thus, with some entity within it, it essentially "lives."

That makes sense. While Blood Magic isn't necessarily evil (In my opinion), it's undeniable that it does have the capacity to corrupt things, intentionally or not. 

Why not go full conspiracist? Sandals "prophecy". 
"One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see."

Sandal is a dwarf who Bodhan found in the Deep Roads all by himself. He has a strange natural ability with Enchantments with seemingly no prior training, and then there was the frozen ogre in the Deep Roads that he claims wasn't killed by an enchantment.
What if Sandal was the first Dwarf to gain/regain magic for a long time, and this "He" Sandal mentions is this Stone being that may or may not exist under Orlais, and somehow granted Sandal magic?

[withneelandi]

I'm pretty sure that based on the harvester we saw in Amgarrak, that the dwarves and tevinters weren't always as far apart as they were now and both empires may have propped up the other, it may even be the case that as well or instead of stone golems, dwarves of the past used flesh harvester golems made with blood magic, red lyrium might have been the side effect of that process or even the fuel.

[test for echo]

Hmm. Intriguing theories.

The last quote in particular is most interesting to me, though.
It seems to reference the Gauntlet; the series of tests the Warden had to undertake to reach the Urn of Sacred Ashes. That brings to mind the explanation Oghren gives behind the urn's supposed "powers", and that they're actually the result of the lyrium veins in the mountainside. And considering the theories regarding lyrium in all its various forms, as well as the Primeval Thaig...well, I don't know. Maybe there's something there?

Not quite sure about the last two parts of that quote, though...
It says only a Shaperate can bring the light. The Shapers are responsible for maintaining the Memories, which supposedly is a compendium of all dwarven history. But they seem to be missing vital information, especially concerning golems. Even the Shaper himself seemed surprised by the information about the Golem Registry you can bring him. I'm not really sure how the Shaperate can "bring the light", when they seem sort of halfway in the darkness themselves. Unless I'm missing something there.

As for the conversion thing, the only element in the DA universe that invokes thoughts of conversion, to me, would be the Qunari. Going around, converting other races to the Qun, mainly by force. Hmm. Could be way off the mark with that one, since I'm not sure what the Gauntlet, the Shaperate, and the Qunari have in common.

[TheBlackAdder13]

test for echo wrote...

As for the conversion thing, the only element in the DA universe that invokes thoughts of conversion, to me, would be the Qunari. Going around, converting other races to the Qun, mainly by force. Hmm. Could be way off the mark with that one, since I'm not sure what the Gauntlet, the Shaperate, and the Qunari have in common.

Maybe he/she meant physical conversion? When taken with the line "we were once more than we are" -- maybe he's talking about golems in their previous (dwarven or otherwise) forms. Conversion begins could mean that they'll return to that form eventually. Perhaps we'll eventually see Shale regain her mortality afterall...if she can be convinced of the merits of a squishy body.  

Also, do we know what language this is?:

"The Stone lives beneath Orlais. Mathas gar na fornen pa salroka atrast."

Is it elven? I must admit, it's never really been clear how language systems work in the DA world. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 28 novembre 2012 - 11:55 .

[Herr Uhl]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Also, do we know what language this is?:

"The Stone lives beneath Orlais. Mathas gar na fornen pa salroka atrast."

Is it elven? I must admit, it's never really been clear how language systems work in the DA world. 

It is the Dwarven language of Orzammar (I think). Salroka is a common word involved in greeting and goodbye phrases (not sure what it actually means) and salroka means friend.

[test for echo]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Maybe he/she meant physical conversion? When taken with the line "we were once more than we are" -- maybe he's talking about golems in their previous (dwarven or otherwise) forms. Conversion begins could mean that they'll return to that form eventually. Perhaps we'll eventually see Shale regain her mortality afterall...if she can be convinced of the merits of a squishy body.  

Also, do we know what language this is?:

"The Stone lives beneath Orlais. Mathas gar na fornen pa salroka atrast."

Is it elven? I must admit, it's never really been clear how language systems work in the DA world. 

A-ha, now I feel silly. That makes more sense than what I originally thought.
Though...considering Shale's stance on her current golem form, she seems to view it as a vast improvement over being mortal and, well, "squishy". ;D
Hmm. I don't know, I feel like it depends on the perspective the golem's speaking from. Is he speaking from a dwarven or golem perspective? From a dwarven viewpoint, does he mean they possessed magic? To be "once more than we are" that, to me, seems to imply that they used to have access to abilities they no longer have. Maybe? Sandal's apparent powers seems to point in this direction, possibly.  But if he's speaking from a golem viewpoint...then, I'm not sure what that could mean.

And, as Herr Uhl already pointed out, it seems to be dwarven. I'm not sure what the first part of the sentence means, but we've already heard 'salroka' and 'atrast' via conversation. Though I'm a bit confused as to what 'atrast' actually means. It's been used in 'atrast vala', which is a greeting, and by Caridin, who says "atrast nal tunsha", which possibly translates to "may you always find your way in the dark". Also, if I remember right, "dulaf gar" is the original phrase given to the Warden in order to wake up Shale with that control rod. Not sure what 'gar' means, but the Nexus Golem says it too.

[JWvonGoethe]

"Amgarrak tapped the blood, spilled between the stone." Well Amgarrak was a thaig where experimental research was conducted on golems, until there was a terrible accident with the harvesters (flesh golems, so blood, rather than stone, was "tapped" to make them), and this resulted in a lot of deaths. Also, Amgarrak has a very high lyrium presence. The combination of lyrium and death caused the veil to become extremely weak. Maybe this thinning of the veil has leaked into other dwarven thaigs ("spilled between the stone.")

"The stone lives beneath Orlais" could be a reference to Kal Sharok, which is a dwarven thaig that exists underneath Orlais. It was previously thought abandoned/destroyed, but it has since been revealed that it is still inhabited. Dwarves refer to their underground thaigs as the stone. If "the stone lives" it could mean that, like Kal-Sharok, it is infused with large lyrium deposits, so perhaps there is some kind of strange goings-on with the Fade in Kal-Sharok too.

"We were once more than we are." In the context of the first and last quote, I would guess this means that dwarves once had a connection to the Fade, and that this connection will be restored. I think Sandal says something about the magic being restored, so these two quotes could be related.

"The Gauntlet is passed. Only a Shaperate can bring the light. Conversion begins..." Well, the Gauntlet was a temple that housed Andraste's Ashes, and, according to Oghren, was full of extremely large lyrium deposits - just like Amgarrak is. Shaperates are compilers and overseers of dwarven history and knowledge. So a Shaperate will presumably be required to bring about some kind of conversion, and I think this has something to do with Amgarrak, Kal Sharok and the Gauntlet being connected in some way which will allow dwarves to restore their connection to the Fade.

This is just based off the top of my head, so apologies if I've got any of my facts wrong.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 29 novembre 2012 - 03:19 .

[whykikyouwhy]

JWvonGoethe wrote...

"The Gauntlet is passed. Only a Shaperate can bring the light. Conversion begins..." Well, the Gauntlet was a temple that housed Andraste's Ashes, and, according to Oghren, was full of extremely large lyrium deposits - just like Amgarrak is. Shaperates are compilers and overseers of dwarven history and knowledge. So a Shaperate will presumably be required to bring about some kind of conversion, and I think this has something to do with Amgarrak, Kal Sharok and the Gauntlet being connected in some way which will allow dwarves to restore their connection to the Fade.

This section of the Nexus Golem's dialogue might be a reference to one of the Shaper's Life codex entries, specifically the bolded bit:

Before the darkspawn, the Stone held an empire--dozens of thaigs, each cavern a shade of dwarven pride, communities separate but united. They fell by degrees. Ruins crumbled into tombstones, a forgotten glory. But the Stone is a living history, and absence can reveal more than constant scrutiny does. As the Stone shifts, she chooses what remains buried and what must see the light. The shapers must return, must walk the lost way, so the children of the Stone can see what has been surrendered and what can be gained.

This is the sacrifice of the shaper.

--"The Lost Way," from The Shaper's Life

So presumably, the Stone has "decided" to reveal secrets, such as how concentrations of lyrium might infuse the ashes of a renowned woman (and possible mage?) with healing powers. Which may be connected to the lost thaigs - while lyrium veins run deep and wide, perhaps the key is which ones are direct paths or connections, and how close to the source/root they are.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 29 novembre 2012 - 11:12 .

[JWvonGoethe]

Well it appear that I conflated the term Shaperate with Shaper - the Shaperate is the place where the memories are stored, not the person who works at the Shaperate.

Anyway, the literal meaning of "what remains buried and what sees the light" could be simply a reference to which parts of the thaigs and deep roads will crumble, letting "light" in, and which parts will stay intact, remaining "buried." And it would be a Shaper's job to go through the Deep Roads, walking "the lost path," in order to find out what has happened in each location. But that's a bit boring, and I don't think it is what the Nexus Golem is referring to by "the light."

I think the light could be a reference to lyrium veins as you say. Other than that, I'm afraid the fourth Nexus quote has lost me a bit.

Modifié par JWvonGoethe, 29 novembre 2012 - 12:06 .