335 réponses à ce sujet

[WrathAscending]

txgoldrush wrote...

1. Aria states that Omega was a major staging area for Cerebrus. In fact, at th every beginning of the DLC, she tells you that helping her will help your war. Nevermind thematically, the Omega story fits right in.

Aria states it. Yet the Cerberus presence there makes no difference to the later assault on the main base. One way or another, it should have been significant- but the task force we actually see at Omega is very small. It took entire Alliance Fleets to make the assault on the Illusive Man's main base. Omega? Not even a side show by comparison.

2. So what....the story is about Aria. And no, she specifically brings Shepard because of his or her combat experience. Nyreen and Bray are not the same caliber. Another fake criticism.

And Shepard's combat experience is not used. Ever. He doesn't give orders, he doesn't co-ordinate anything, and nothing he does is beyond the baseline abilities we see from mediocre NPCs in other areas.

4. Did you even watch the cutscene? Aria and Shepard arrive TOO LATE to save her. Face it, Nyreens death fits her character and the themes of the game.

Yes. They arrive, watching her lure the Adjutants in and bubbling up. They had enough time to open fire, for Aria to go biotic, for Shepard to Biotic Charge across the deck, or whatever else. They could even have had Nyreen bubble up to keep the Adjutants away but be injured in the explosion instead, but she dies without there being any way to prevent it. It's another instance of Shepard being sidelined, and it's only going to annoy the fans who wanted female Turians to be present.

5. Wow...did you even play Paragon? You simply do not know what you are talking about. Fact is that a Paragon influences Aria to actually develop and care about others lives. You help her develop...oh wait, that also goes against your claims 2 and 3. I guess Sheoard is still the protagonist then. Nevermind that Paragons will side with Nyreen.

Siding with Nyreen changes a grand total of... one thing in the DLC. Not shutting the reactor down immediately is the only point of difference. Aria doesn't change or develop, she just gets to see Petrosky humiliate himself and stages that showdown to let Shepard know that if she wanted to kill him there was no way for her to be stopped.

[GimmeDaGun]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

"deviate from the norm"... wow...just wow. That form might have stood the test of time, but it gets old after a while, just like hollywood movies. I tend to enjoy something unique and interesting instead, even if it is not for all tastes and takes the risk to be more than usual old cliches and patterns. 

If story telling would have followed "the norm" and wouldn't have dared to be unique in literature... well than we wouldn't have literature at all. I'm talking about literature and not pulp (like Stephen King or these neo-fantasy, sci-fi writers).

What's cliche and boring is moral ambiguity, cyncism, tearing down something good, and no matter what we lose malarkey.

I'm sick of all this sullen, nihilistic, and emo crap that dominates fiction nowadays. It started with anime and spread since.

Probably because all you see is "nowadays" and does not go beyond a certain level of fiction. Cormac McCarthy, one of the best authors in America (IMO) writes some very cyptic, apocalyptic and pessimistic books and dramas, but still they have a lot to say and are written very, very well. Not being all happy is not nihilistic or emo. 

People drawn to that type of work are mostly suburban rich people looking for despair porn. Their lives are too good.

Wow, man! 


I didn't know that reading books is such a bad thing nowadays. Ok, I'm kind of out of the loop when it comes to todays' youths' stand on culture. Sorry, but what you said is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on these forums. I don't even want to continue this discussion... wouldn't make sense. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 28 novembre 2012 - 10:48 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

txgoldrush wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

"deviate from the norm"... wow...just wow. That form might have stood the test of time, but it gets old after a while, just like hollywood movies. I tend to enjoy something unique and interesting instead, even if it is not for all tastes and takes the risk to be more than usual old cliches and patterns. 

If story telling would have followed "the norm" and wouldn't have dared to be unique in literature... well than we wouldn't have literature at all. I'm talking about literature and not pulp (like Stephen King or these neo-fantasy, sci-fi writers).

What's cliche and boring is moral ambiguity, cyncism, tearing down something good, and no matter what we lose malarkey.

I'm sick of all this sullen, nihilistic, and emo crap that dominates fiction nowadays. It started with anime and spread since.

and yet ME3 is NONE of those things.

On the contrary you've argued in other threads that it is and hence it's more highbrow and "evolved" than Bioware's past.

[txgoldrush]

WrathAscending wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

1. Aria states that Omega was a major staging area for Cerebrus. In fact, at th every beginning of the DLC, she tells you that helping her will help your war. Nevermind thematically, the Omega story fits right in.

Aria states it. Yet the Cerberus presence there makes no difference to the later assault on the main base. One way or another, it should have been significant- but the task force we actually see at Omega is very small. It took entire Alliance Fleets to make the assault on the Illusive Man's main base. Omega? Not even a side show by comparison.

2. So what....the story is about Aria. And no, she specifically brings Shepard because of his or her combat experience. Nyreen and Bray are not the same caliber. Another fake criticism.

2. And Shepard's combat experience is not used. Ever. He doesn't give orders, he doesn't co-ordinate anything, and nothing he does is beyond the baseline abilities we see from mediocre NPCs in other areas.

4. Did you even watch the cutscene? Aria and Shepard arrive TOO LATE to save her. Face it, Nyreens death fits her character and the themes of the game.

3. Yes. They arrive, watching her lure the Adjutants in and bubbling up. They had enough time to open fire, for Aria to go biotic, for Shepard to Biotic Charge across the deck, or whatever else. They could even have had Nyreen bubble up to keep the Adjutants away but be injured in the explosion instead, but she dies without there being any way to prevent it. It's another instance of Shepard being sidelined, and it's only going to annoy the fans who wanted female Turians to be present.

5. Wow...did you even play Paragon? You simply do not know what you are talking about. Fact is that a Paragon influences Aria to actually develop and care about others lives. You help her develop...oh wait, that also goes against your claims 2 and 3. I guess Sheoard is still the protagonist then. Nevermind that Paragons will side with Nyreen.

4. Siding with Nyreen changes a grand total of... one thing in the DLC. Not shutting the reactor down immediately is the only point of difference. Aria doesn't change or develop, she just gets to see Petrosky humiliate himself and stages that showdown to let Shepard know that if she wanted to kill him there was no way for her to be stopped.

1. Gameplay wise it may not matter but narrative wise, its another quest to gather allies and war assets, which IS part of the main story. Consider it the Terminus Systems arc of the story, combining the Merc quests on the Citadel leads to 600 War asset points or more, almost the size of the Tuchanka and Rannoch campaigns.

2. Wrong, he orders Aria's salarian strategist to find Cerebrus positions for one example and clearly acts as a mediator between Aria and Nyreen.

3. Waaah Waaah Waah. Ever thought that characters can make their own choices without your permission? Sorry, but they are not your digital slaves. You can't control everything and yes, you get their too late. Thats the pont of the scene.

4. Wrong....Aria saying "We are Omega" is proof of her development at the end. Hell, she mentions to my Paragon that maybe she has made her "soft".

You simply didn;t get it. You did not pay enough attention.

[Hudathan]

WrathAscending wrote...

Yes. They arrive, watching her lure the Adjutants in and bubbling up. They had enough time to open fire, for Aria to go biotic, for Shepard to Biotic Charge across the deck, or whatever else. They could even have had Nyreen bubble up to keep the Adjutants away but be injured in the explosion instead, but she dies without there being any way to prevent it. It's another instance of Shepard being sidelined, and it's only going to annoy the fans who wanted female Turians to be present.

What makes you think that Shepard and Aria even knew that Nyreen was in there with live grenades? Not to mention that they had no way to intervene as long as Nyreen was willing to keep the barrier up. They did the sensible thing in that scene which is run towards her as fast as possible hoping to lend a hand in some way.

Modifié par Hudathan, 28 novembre 2012 - 11:00 .

[txgoldrush]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

"deviate from the norm"... wow...just wow. That form might have stood the test of time, but it gets old after a while, just like hollywood movies. I tend to enjoy something unique and interesting instead, even if it is not for all tastes and takes the risk to be more than usual old cliches and patterns. 

If story telling would have followed "the norm" and wouldn't have dared to be unique in literature... well than we wouldn't have literature at all. I'm talking about literature and not pulp (like Stephen King or these neo-fantasy, sci-fi writers).

What's cliche and boring is moral ambiguity, cyncism, tearing down something good, and no matter what we lose malarkey.

I'm sick of all this sullen, nihilistic, and emo crap that dominates fiction nowadays. It started with anime and spread since.

and yet ME3 is NONE of those things.

On the contrary you've argued in other threads that it is and hence it's more highbrow and "evolved" than Bioware's past.

You simply do not know what nihilism is. You arguments come from falsehood.

[Binary_Helix 1]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Wow, man! 


I didn't know that reading books is such a bad thing nowadays. Ok, I'm kind of out of the loop when it comes to todays' youths' stand on culture. Sorry, but what you said is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on these forums. I don't even want to continue this discussion... wouldn't make sense. 

The American literary scene is dominated by limousine liberals and phoney bohemians. I live in a state saturated with them.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 28 novembre 2012 - 10:57 .

[Liamv2]

Hudathan wrote...

WrathAscending wrote...

Yes. They arrive, watching her lure the Adjutants in and bubbling up. They had enough time to open fire, for Aria to go biotic, for Shepard to Biotic Charge across the deck, or whatever else. They could even have had Nyreen bubble up to keep the Adjutants away but be injured in the explosion instead, but she dies without there being any way to prevent it. It's another instance of Shepard being sidelined, and it's only going to annoy the fans who wanted female Turians to be present.

They arrive like two whole seconds before the grenades went off. Nyreen was standing right on top of live explosives that blow up before either Shepard nor Aria could react.

All this complaining because a character dies, I guess Bioware better play it safe from now on and never kill anybody for any reason regardless of setting or context.

Yes nobody ever dies sheperd finds the secret to immotality

[txgoldrush]

Hudathan wrote...

WrathAscending wrote...

Yes. They arrive, watching her lure the Adjutants in and bubbling up. They had enough time to open fire, for Aria to go biotic, for Shepard to Biotic Charge across the deck, or whatever else. They could even have had Nyreen bubble up to keep the Adjutants away but be injured in the explosion instead, but she dies without there being any way to prevent it. It's another instance of Shepard being sidelined, and it's only going to annoy the fans who wanted female Turians to be present.

They arrive like two whole seconds before the grenades went off. Nyreen was standing right on top of live explosives that blow up before either Shepard nor Aria could react.

All this complaining because a character dies, I guess Bioware better play it safe from now on and never kill anybody for any reason regardless of setting or context.

sounds like it....really the fans are going to kill Bioware.....

In fact, I applaud Nyreens sacrifice, as well as Dr Ann Bryson in Leviathan (potential). Why? Because it fits the ME3 theme about sacrifice and the DLC continues this theme.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 28 novembre 2012 - 10:58 .

[GimmeDaGun]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Wow, man! 


I didn't know that reading books is such a bad thing nowadays. Ok, I'm kind of out of the loop when it comes to todays' youths' stand on culture. Sorry, but what you said is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on these forums. I don't even want to continue this discussion... wouldn't make sense. 

The American literary scene is dominated by limousine liberals and phoney bohemians. I live in a state saturated with them.

Now, McCarthy is none of those...  Especially not bohemian...


No Country for Old Man, The Road, Bloody Meridian etc.? Have you heard of these?

And believe me, I'm anything but liberal. We have our share of liberal hypocricy here in Hungary as well... but I really  don't want this thread closed down, so I stop here. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 28 novembre 2012 - 11:07 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

DaveTheRave05 wrote...

Why? I don't know. I'm starting to think the majority of the people here 'hate' Omega and anything post Mass Effect 3 to try and look cool or important, make themselves stand out amongst the hate crowd or something. A lot of the hate is just butthurt anyway.

I personally thought that Omega was great. Wasn't mindblowing, like the same majority thought it was going to be, but what more could you ask for when the whole thing was based around taking Omega back from Cerberus? I'm glad that Aria was fleshed out more as a character, rather than your basic crime lord, and was developed well alongside her relationship with Nyreen. Nyreen herself was a good character too, though I do wish her Biotic Protector ability could be unlocked. I'll get over it though.

Really, only complaints I have are the odd glitch here and there (really, it isn't nearly as bad as people are saying it is. Some I found quite humourous), but for £10, it's a decent price tag. I enjoyed it, and that's all that matters. Yes, I will be looking forward to the next DLC, whatever that may be.

Hit the nail right on the head.

[Binary_Helix 1]

txgoldrush wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

On the contrary you've argued in other threads that it is and hence it's more highbrow and "evolved" than Bioware's past.

You simply do not know what nihilism is. You arguments come from falsehood.

I've watched you berate others for the last several months in support of some of those very same ideas.

However it is my belief that you take certain positions just to spite the fan base so I'll let you correct the record.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 28 novembre 2012 - 11:10 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

"deviate from the norm"... wow...just wow. That form might have stood the test of time, but it gets old after a while, just like hollywood movies. I tend to enjoy something unique and interesting instead, even if it is not for all tastes and takes the risk to be more than usual old cliches and patterns. 

If story telling would have followed "the norm" and wouldn't have dared to be unique in literature... well than we wouldn't have literature at all. I'm talking about literature and not pulp (like Stephen King or these neo-fantasy, sci-fi writers).

What's cliche and boring is moral ambiguity, cyncism, tearing down something good, and no matter what we lose malarkey.

I'm sick of all this sullen, nihilistic, and emo crap that dominates fiction nowadays. It started with anime and spread since.

I just want to say +1 and I'm going to bed. Good night.

[WrathAscending]

txgoldrush wrote...

1. Gameplay wise it may not matter but narrative wise, its another quest to gather allies and war assets, which IS part of the main story. Consider it the Terminus Systems arc of the story, combining the Merc quests on the Citadel leads to 600 War asset points or more, almost the size of the Tuchanka and Rannoch campaigns.

Which is just indicative of how arbitrary the War Asset points are. One MP Promotion is worth about as much as the Destiny Ascension. How are less than ten guys worth as much for the war effort as what is probably the single most powerful warship the galaxy has to fight the Reapers?

2. Wrong, he orders Aria's salarian strategist to find Cerebrus positions for one example and clearly acts as a mediator between Aria and Nyreen.

Aria was intending to work with Nyreen until she became inconvenient, then depose her. She would have played along regardless. As for Ahz, he still does nothing without Aria's final approval.

3. Waaah Waaah Waah. Ever thought that characters can make their own choices without your permission? Sorry, but they are not your digital slaves. You can't control everything and yes, you get their too late. Thats the pont of the scene.

There is a difference between NPCs having choice and what I actually said. Shepard and Aria both had the ability to do something that could have distracted the Adjutants, even killed them outright, to give Nyreen a chance. Not to mention how many people asked for female Turians to be represented in game given the Heirarchy is supposed to be a strict meritocracy where gender is irrelevant and the sexes serve on the lines together- the implication being that their absence was driven by overt or unintentional sexism over the course of three games. We finally get a female Turian, but she dies no matter what. Whether you buy into that take or not, it's pretty obvious that providing one female Turian in the entirety of the DLC and then scripting her pointless death is going to generate some backlash.

4. Wrong....Aria saying "We are Omega" is proof of her development at the end. Hell, she mentions to my Paragon that maybe she has made her "soft".

She says that after a scene that establishes she can do whatever she wants but is leaving Petrovsky alive because he has completely humiliated himself and may be of value to Shepard (increasing her hold over them), not because she has actually changed- amply demonstrated by her constant "OMEGA IS MINE!"s and the way that she gloats about having "given" the citizens of Omega their lives back and demanding that they earn her favour immediately for having done so.

You simply didn;t get it. You did not pay enough attention.

I paid plenty of attention. I got it just fine.

[Fixers0]

Because it's content was mediocre at best.

[GalateaJ]

I think "hate" is too strong a word for Omega DLC, but I was certainly disappointed by it.

Even though Leviathan was always going to suffer from being a wedged-in support for the Catalyst ending, it had one big thing in its favour: the awe-inspiring ocean dive sequence. That was completely different to any other place we'd been in the galaxy and you really felt how tiny Shepard was as the mech fell through the water. I found that Omega lacked any similar jaw-dropping moments - the Adjutants would have been far more memorable if the extent of their threat had been shown to us (note: I have not read the associated comics...but I shouldn't have to in order to get the most out of the DLC). Omega lacked the sense of scale it needed to have dramatic impact. We heard about the people rioting in the streets but hardly saw them. Adjutants popped up to roar a lot and be shot at (and were not much of a challenge for my high level Shepard).

[clarkusdarkus]

Because when they're biggest dlc to date only lasts 2hr30mins on average and it's $15 whilst not also allowing other dlc to be used with it( javik/appearance armor for squadmates) then i would say that's an awfull dlc and seeing how lacklustre alot of the stuff is( feedback thread) im so glad i didnt fall for the pre-release jargon again. Im glad you liked it so we'll agree to disagree and quietly resent each other for it

[Gamer790]

I fear you are confusing disappointment with hatred. I'm sure there is some good content, but the story itself is bland, characterization is somewhat lacking, there are still copious amounts of auto dialogue and most of it is combat. Basically it seems to be further indication of this series abandoning what made people care about it to begin with.

[WrathAscending]

Honestly, I would have been happier if they made an hour (ish?) long machinama-style movie about Aria re-taking Omega without Shepard, deepened the Nyreen storyline, and bundled it with the weapons and mods for $15.

[Crypticqa]

Once again, Omega is very similar to LoTSB.
Both have alot of combat, temporary squad mates,minimum choices and about the same sized story.
Why is LoTSB praised while Omega is bashed?

I am starting to think its simply because "But the ending still sucks,so I am going to dislike everything Bioware does"

Modifié par Crypticqa, 28 novembre 2012 - 01:12 .

[Someone With Mass]

Two words.

Wasted. Potential.

[CR121691]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Two words.

Wasted. Potential.

One word.

No.

[Someone With Mass]

Crypticqa wrote...

Once again, Omega is very similar to LoTSB.
Both have alot of combat, temporary squad mates,minimum choices and about the same sized story.
Why is LoTSB praised while Omega is bashed?

I am starting to think its simply because "But the ending still sucks,so I am going to dislike everything Bioware does"

I'd say it's because they constantly said that Omega was going to be bigger, which is a lie, they introduced the first in-game female turian, only to have her killed off and that taking back Omega serves absolutely no purpose when it comes to the story, while LotSB put a squadmate in power of a very large information network, which could have very well been contributing to the overall story for all the player knew back then.

[WrathAscending]

Crypticqa wrote...

Once again, Omega is very similar to LoTSB.
Both have alot of combat, temporary squad mates,minimum choices and about the same sized story.
Why is LoTSB praised while Omega is bashed?

I am starting to think its simply because "But the ending still sucks,so I am going to dislike everything Bioware does"

For some, it might be the case.

For me, I had other issues with it.

In Lair of the Shadow Broker, Shepard is needed for the mission to succeed, and taking the Shadow Broker down gives you access to vast resources whilst simultaneously hampering the ability of the Reapers to garner intelligence.

In Omega, Shepard's presence is irrelevant, what you do doesn't hurt your enemy in any meaningful fashion, and the resources gained vary from the questionably usefull to the outright useless on the galactic scale because of the way the War Asset points work and when you might be playing the DLC. Do it straight after Mars? OK, the increase to War Assets will be noticable if you don't promote much in Multiplayer (I have an N7 of 4, 020, so I'm pretty much set for War Assets on N7 Special Ops alone), or just before the assault on the Illusive Man's base (when you can't do anything with the resources you gain), not so much.

[I am Sovereign]

CR121691 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Two words.

Wasted. Potential.

One word.

No.

What a structured and well thought out counterpoint.
<_<