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Day one dlc?


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#126
argan1985

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Bestyj669 wrote...

Bail_Darilar wrote...

I don't mind its stupid that people complain. It's not like its a new tactic that businesses have suddenly introduced to advertising and selling a product.


Just because it's not a "new tactic" doesn't make it right.

I still remember buying complete games on release.


Ah yes, the good old days where you got a complete game, and a year afterwards a complete, well-thought through and solid expansion pack. Now you just buy the game in bits and pieces. I hate DLC.

#127
Tigerman123

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Day one DLC is just a sleight of hand whereby a core element of the game is removed and then arbitrarily designated as a separate product, regardless of the fact that it's usually on disc. Basically it's a way of of gouging loyal customers who have a higher willingness to pay

Unfortunately for Bioware cutting out bits of a game reduces its quality and the reviews and sales figures have reflected that

Modifié par Tigerman123, 02 décembre 2012 - 09:28 .


#128
Atakuma

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Tigerman123 wrote...
Unfortunately for Bioware cutting out bits of a game reduces its quality and the reviews and sales figures have reflected that

Not true, ME3 got great reviews and sales.

#129
DarkKnightHolmes

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Of course, almost every big game now a days does it.

I hate it and believe it's a complete rip off but I've just accepted it as norm now.

Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 02 décembre 2012 - 09:35 .


#130
Tigerman123

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I was talking about DA2

#131
Allan Schumacher

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Tigerman123 wrote...

I was talking about DA2


I'm quite confident that DA2's reviews and sales are more strongly correlated with other events than its Day One DLC.

#132
LPPrince

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

Tigerman123 wrote...

I was talking about DA2


I'm quite confident that DA2's reviews and sales are more strongly correlated with other events than its Day One DLC.


Yeah. Take it from me, I'm no big fan of DA2, but what made it get less than savory reviews was not Sebastian's lack of being in the game from the beginning.

Though I will admit, this day one DLC model is getting annoying.

I didn't mind Shale as it was the first time that happened. After came Kasumi and Zaeed which is when I felt a red flag went up because our squad was advertised as a "Dirty Dozen" only to later be told we were getting ten and they never said we'd get 12.

After that came Sebastian. After him came Javik.

So now I feel like its less of a, "We couldn't complete this in time but here's our way of making sure it gets to you ASAP" but instead feels like more of a, "Lets take this out/Lets set this aside and release it day one to increase sales/profit"

And that makes me sad. I'd rather more development time be set aside so these things didn't happen instead of trying to adhere to a specific date and then charging the gamer for something that could've been implemented from the start.

I don't want to be associated with the people who harp on this daily or think all developers/publishers are greedy devils(as I don't feel that way personally) but I can understand their frustration.

Modifié par LPPrince, 02 décembre 2012 - 11:31 .


#133
Maria Caliban

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Atakuma wrote...

Tigerman123 wrote...
Unfortunately for Bioware cutting out bits of a game reduces its quality and the reviews and sales figures have reflected that

Not true, ME3 got great reviews and sales.


Tigerman123 wrote...

I was talking about DA2

How can you say that reviews and sales figures support your opinion and then ignore the reviews and sales figures for every BioWare game but one?

DA:O, ME 2, DA II, and ME 3 all had DLC. Of them, three had good reviews and sales.

#134
Allan Schumacher

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I didn't mind Shale as it was the first time that happened. After came Kasumi and Zaeed which is when I felt a red flag went up because our squad was advertised as a "Dirty Dozen" only to later be told we were getting ten and they never said we'd get 12.


Hmmmm. Is it Dirty Dozen because there's specifically 12, or is it Dirty Dozen because it's a group of criminals and misfits unified by an excellent military commander that goes in and kicks butt?

I don't know what Kasumi is like, but Zaeed pales compared to the rest of the squadmates.

#135
LPPrince

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

I didn't mind Shale as it was the first time that happened. After came Kasumi and Zaeed which is when I felt a red flag went up because our squad was advertised as a "Dirty Dozen" only to later be told we were getting ten and they never said we'd get 12.


Hmmmm. Is it Dirty Dozen because there's specifically 12, or is it Dirty Dozen because it's a group of criminals and misfits unified by an excellent military commander that goes in and kicks butt?

I don't know what Kasumi is like, but Zaeed pales compared to the rest of the squadmates.


Kasumi also pales in comparison(content wise).

As far as the Dirty Dozen description, nearly everyone perceived that statement as "this is how many squadmates we'll have" not "this is what our squadmates will be like". Otherwise, use a more appropriate description that doesn't include a number. Anyway, a few devs went on to say later that it was the latter of your descriptions, not the former.

But when you consider we ended up getting 12 anyway, a few eyebrows get raised.

#136
Allan Schumacher

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Otherwise, use a more appropriate description that doesn't include a number. Anyway, a few devs went on to say later that it was the latter of your descriptions, not the former.


You do understand where the term Dirty Dozen comes from though, right?

I just find it interesting that when I hear Dirty Dozen I don't focus on the number, but rather the context that exists within the movie.

#137
LPPrince

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Oh of course(I know where the term comes from).

But you have to consider that not everyone is going to understand where a term like that comes from, and chances are there will be a sizable group of people(in that case as far as the forum went a majority) that take the statement literally.

Hell, even I did. Of course, the "your squad is a dirty dozen of blah blah blah I don't remember the specifics of what was said at the time hahaha forgive me" DID come up during talks over squad size.

So thats probably where the confusion came from. But gah, we're straying a little off topic.

My original point being that while Day One DLC is convenient, I'd like to hear for once, "We were going to have Day One DLC for this game but it was cancelled, sorry. We ended up just sticking it in the game anyway, hope you don't mind. :)"

Followed by whoever said that getting roses sent to them from all corners of the world.

Probably Jessica Merizan. Just because she's a sweetheart.

#138
Allan Schumacher

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Yeah, I just came in to post that I am curious if the age of the reference caused any issues.

(Though anyone that hasn't seen the movie should see it. It's a fun one!)

#139
LPPrince

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Its probably best if the marketing team(or just whoever happens to be talking about the game) uses straight up factual statements instead of buzzwords or references to things not everyone will understand.

For example-

Reference not everyone will understand- "Its like a big ball of wibbley wobbley timey-wimey stuff"

Fact- Game covers close to ten years and jumps from certain years between acts.

Buzzwords- Press a button and something awesome happens!

Fact- The time between pressing a button and an activity actually occurring has been drastically reduced through careful optimization of animation.

etc etc

#140
Guest_krul2k_*

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id rather they have day 1 dlc but left out pop ups in my game to go buy it

#141
LPPrince

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If there's one thing I'll give Bioware credit for, its that they don't make the mistake Gearbox is doing currently with Borderlands 2 DLCs.

They aren't releasing too many things too quickly after launch.

I'm all for more content but dang, give me some time to do other stuff, jeez.

I'd like if Bioware released a solid game, no Day One DLC, and then got to work on content released later so in my head I can process that its not something that could've been included at launch if the launch date was pushed back.

#142
DaringMoosejaw

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I don't mind day one DLC at all, because I realize that it's not simply them cutting out content that was already on there once primary development was over. But no matter how often you tell that to a lot of folks, they're going to see it on disc and have the kneejerk reaction that they're getting nickel'd and dimed. Never going to change. I suspect they'll stop releasing day one DLC when it stops selling.

#143
DarkSpiral

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DaringMoosejaw wrote...

I don't mind day one DLC at all, because I realize that it's not simply them cutting out content that was already on there once primary development was over. But no matter how often you tell that to a lot of folks, they're going to see it on disc and have the kneejerk reaction that they're getting nickel'd and dimed. Never going to change. I suspect they'll stop releasing day one DLC when it stops selling.


Quoted, if not for truth, then just because I agree completely.  As it (Day One DLC) was originally a way of combating priracy (and possibly second-hand game sales),  I'll continue to prefer it over other methods.

Oh, and this is good too.

Edit: I'll have to admit, I'm less pleased about D1DLC that I have to buy.  But I still don't really get why people are so up in arms over it.

Modifié par DarkSpiral, 03 décembre 2012 - 02:34 .


#144
Doctoglethorpe

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

I didn't mind Shale as it was the first time that happened. After came Kasumi and Zaeed which is when I felt a red flag went up because our squad was advertised as a "Dirty Dozen" only to later be told we were getting ten and they never said we'd get 12.


Hmmmm. Is it Dirty Dozen because there's specifically 12, or is it Dirty Dozen because it's a group of criminals and misfits unified by an excellent military commander that goes in and kicks butt?
.


Both.

No matter how you want to swing it, dozen implies twelve.  Unless its a bakers.  Thats where Joker comes in. 

To be fair though, both Zaeed and Kasumi both clearly show that they were cut from the game's central development at some point, being the shallow companions they are with no normandy conversations to get to know them, little if any interaction with other companions, etc.  So I believe they were originally intended back when the dirty dozen idea originated, but then cut before the game was far in development and then added back in as easy dlc since pre-production work had already been done.  Whether or not they were cut specificly to be made dlc or not remains unknown and I won't make assumptions on that.  But I can believe that they were worked on seperate from the main game, thus their shallow nature. 

The issue with Javik and Sebastian is that they are fully formed companions, as deeply intwined into the core game as any other, arguably more so at least with Javik.  I don't believe for a second that they weren't developed alongside the rest of their respective core games.  

I still think all new copies should of gotten them, not just LE's.  I don't have much issue with any new purchase dlc, even if its just taking out a slice of a pie and withholding it from used purchasers, which is why I don't have any issue with Shale who I also believe was a fully formed companion cut out for dlc, but when day one dlc is LE specific, thats a real kick to the teeth to consumers.  "Thanks for paying full price for our game and not buying used, but we want more." 

No doubt there are shady business arguments in favor of those moves, and you guys can try to find clever ways of making sense of it all you want, but thats the best they will ever be viewed as to most consumers and fans.  Nickle and diming.  Maybe tolerable or expected, but nickle and diming none the less.  Idk, personally I'd rather have more fan approval then more upfront money at the cost of it.  Better standing with consumers can do marvelous things.  Just look at CD Projekt.  Its something I don't believe EA capable of, but I am sure most Bioware employees know it.  I'm also sure your contracts or at least some kind of corporate mentality forbids you guys from admiting it publicly, if even to yourselves.  I get it. 

Or maybe I don't.  *shrug*  Not my problem.  Not yours either as long as I keep giving you my money.  Maybe it is my problem.  Probably a common thing, you make such great games and built such a great reputation before EA that many of us swallow these new distasteful business practices.  Its like a barrier of sludge we have to pass through now to play your games.  Or maybe its just me.  Apparently I still think its worth it.  Sometimes I wonder.  Guess I can't help myself.  And EA knows that.  All corporations know it.  Consumers are sheep to be herded.  Were almost helpless.  Once we've grown used to something its hard to live without it.  Can't grow up playing Bioware games then just walk away cause of some disgusting after taste.  You've secured the addiction, now raise the price.  You know I'll pay.  I gotta get my fix.  Curse me. 




Uh....  that one got out of control, didn't it? Um.. /rant?


But yeah, a dozen is 12, dirty or clean.  <3

#145
LPPrince

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Ah yes, Javik. We heard about a Prothean squadmate WAY before the game came out yet our 7th squadmate was DLC and not part of the game right out of the box.

Still trying to understand that one.

#146
Rann

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DarkSpiral wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

I don't mind day one DLC at all, because I realize that it's not simply them cutting out content that was already on there once primary development was over. But no matter how often you tell that to a lot of folks, they're going to see it on disc and have the kneejerk reaction that they're getting nickel'd and dimed. Never going to change. I suspect they'll stop releasing day one DLC when it stops selling.


Quoted, if not for truth, then just because I agree completely.  As it (Day One DLC) was originally a way of combating priracy (and possibly second-hand game sales),  I'll continue to prefer it over other methods.

Oh, and this is good too.

Edit: I'll have to admit, I'm less pleased about D1DLC that I have to buy.  But I still don't really get why people are so up in arms over it.


Agree as well -- as long as the server Is running well on Day 1 to validate the DLC.  Image IPB I love me some DA:O big time, but I remember that first day trying to get everything turned on properly... account, DLCs, etc...

#147
StElmo

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day one dlc is fine if it is not story releated. if its a character appearence pack or a weapon pack or something I am fine with that.

If it is a story element (looking at you From Ashes) - it is a sin to use this as DLC.

#148
StElmo

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Rann wrote...

DarkSpiral wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

I don't mind day one DLC at all, because I realize that it's not simply them cutting out content that was already on there once primary development was over. But no matter how often you tell that to a lot of folks, they're going to see it on disc and have the kneejerk reaction that they're getting nickel'd and dimed. Never going to change. I suspect they'll stop releasing day one DLC when it stops selling.


Quoted, if not for truth, then just because I agree completely.  As it (Day One DLC) was originally a way of combating priracy (and possibly second-hand game sales),  I'll continue to prefer it over other methods.

Oh, and this is good too.

Edit: I'll have to admit, I'm less pleased about D1DLC that I have to buy.  But I still don't really get why people are so up in arms over it.


Agree as well -- as long as the server Is running well on Day 1 to validate the DLC.  Image IPB I love me some DA:O big time, but I remember that first day trying to get everything turned on properly... account, DLCs, etc...


lets not forget its an easy $10 markup that most consumers don't actually "see" as a $60 becoming a $70 one.

#149
LPPrince

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I've noticed that with all these Day One DLC and Season Pass things being released on game days that gamers are now spending upwards of $70-$100 when they pick up their games compared to the $60 they've grown accustomed to.

#150
DarkSpiral

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StElmo wrote...

day one dlc is fine if it is not story releated. if its a character appearence pack or a weapon pack or something I am fine with that.

If it is a story element (looking at you From Ashes) - it is a sin to use this as DLC.


People exaggerate the effect Javik has on ME3.  I played my last ME3 game with not going to Eden Prime untill after Thessia.  He absense changed nothing.  Absolutely nothing.  Javik is strictly cool factor.

That having been said, having him be soemthing you must pay extra to receive is definetly uncool.  Which is why peopel using Shale as an example baffles me.  Buy the game new, get this charcter for now extra charge.  I'm good with that.