25 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai_Nichi]

While Flare is certainly an incredibly powerful power for any class, it has one major drawback. Its exceptionally long recharge time. Soldiers and Infiltrators are well equiped to bypass this using the Power Use evolution of the Soldier's Adrenaline Rush and the Infiltrator's Tactical Cloak. Enjoy your many explosions, I certainly am.

EDIT: Forgot that powers use their own cooldown in the middle of Tactical Cloak when you take the bonus power evolution.

Modifié par Dai_Nichi, 28 novembre 2012 - 09:36 .

[capn233]

How do you get two Flaress with Bonus Power since when you take that evolution you are using the power's cooldown in the middle of cloak?

Otherwise, yeah it is a powerful option for a biotic soldier or infiltrator.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Flare might be a tad better for Infiltrators, as it's easier to use than Sticky Grenades.

[Abraham_uk]

Do biotics get bonus damage from using flare?

The adepts, vanguards and sentinels...


I was tempted to say spam but it's cooldown time is so slow you can't "spam" it.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 28 novembre 2012 - 05:58 .

[Dai_Nichi]

capn233 wrote...

How do you get two Flaress with Bonus Power since when you take that evolution you are using the power's cooldown in the middle of cloak?

Otherwise, yeah it is a powerful option for a biotic soldier or infiltrator.

You raise an excellent point good sir. I have only tested it with soldier and forgot powers use their own cooldown in middle of the tactical cloak. 

[Dai_Nichi]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Do biotics get bonus damage from using flare?

The adepts, vanguards and sentinels...


I was tempted to say spam but it's cooldown time is so slow you can't "spam" it.

They generally get the largest power damage bonuses but the only way to spam the power is as a soldier or infiltrator.

[Dai_Nichi]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Flare might be a tad better for Infiltrators, as it's easier to use than Sticky Grenades.

I've always had trouble using Sticky Grenades on any enemy other than an Atlus.

[Abraham_uk]

Here is my understanding of Flare. So correct me if I'm wrong.

• Flare is a biotic explosion.
• It has a very slow cooldown (which is the equivilent of the warp cooldown plus the throw cooldown)
• It cannot setup or detonate biotic explosions because it is a biotic explosion.
• It cannot detonate tech bursts, incendiary explosions or cryo explosions.
• Flare is so overpowered it will never be introduced to any future multiplayer characters (if indeed there are any)...

[Dai_Nichi]

Its actually still a biotic attack and can set off biotic explosions. Theres even a Rank 5 evolution that boosts the damage and size of biotic explosions by 50 percent. Combine that with warp and your biotic explosions will be twice their normal size on top of Flares huge damage radius. And it only has the combined recharge speed of warp and throw if you take the recharge upgrade (instead of the amazing detonation) and have 200 percent cooldown and all cooldown armor and upgrades. Then the recharge time finally starts looking reasonable but still far longer than any other biotic attack. Only way to ever spam the power is with Infiltrator and to a lesser degree with the Soldier. And its brokenly over powered, so I cant see it ever reaching multiplayer.

[Volkai7]

Currently my Infiltrator Shep is a bit of a Controller - Dominate and Sabotage are my two bumper button powers. I might have to give up Dominate to try a Cloak Flare, see how much pain that puts out.

[Dai_Nichi]

Volkai7 wrote...

Currently my Infiltrator Shep is a bit of a Controller - Dominate and Sabotage are my two bumper button powers. I might have to give up Dominate to try a Cloak Flare, see how much pain that puts out.

Honestly having Dominate and Sabotage together is amazing. Let's you turn almost any enemy into a temporary ally. I like using Dominate on my Engineer Shep. But give the Cloak Flare a try. You may enjoy causing lots of explosions hehe.

[Epsilon330]

I prefer to keep my Soldier combat-pure, for lore and personal preferences.
However, I can see your point. It's like a portable instant Biotic Explosion with more "oomph".
Sorry, Flare. Marksman is just too versatile to pass up for me. Fully specced Marksman combined with a decently leveled Typhoon, Revenant or Harrier with SP balancing is just insane. Bonus points for including Exploding Incendiary Ammo.

[ZombieGambit]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Here is my understanding of Flare. So correct me if I'm wrong.

• Flare is a biotic explosion.
• It has a very slow cooldown (which is the equivilent of the warp cooldown plus the throw cooldown)
• It cannot setup or detonate biotic explosions because it is a biotic explosion.
• It cannot detonate tech bursts, incendiary explosions or cryo explosions.
  Flare is so overpowered it will never be introduced to any future multiplayer characters (if indeed there are any)...

It can detonate BE's, I'm pretty sure. It has an evolution to make Biotic Explosions stronger. I've just gotten it and I haven't played another mission after Omega. I think it can be spammed on the Adept as well if you take the recharge evo on Flare, and then take the 40% faster cooldowns for Biotic Explosions.

Actually, the cooldown isn't even that bad for the amount of damage it does. I bought it to see how bad the it would be and it doesn't seem ridiculous. I get a 7 second cooldown while carrying a Typhoon X and a Hurricane X with ULM. I'm going to use it as my boss killer as I don't think it will set off BE's on mooks since they'll just die from the initial damage from Flare. 

[Abraham_uk]

I'm playing the Flare Soldier.

This is an amazing biotic class.
Well it's the regular soldier but with flare as a bonus power.

But my goodness. Use this during adrenaline rush.
Completely transforms the soldier into one hell of a beast.

[EternalSeekerX9]

Abraham_uk wrote...

I'm playing the Flare Soldier.

This is an amazing biotic class.
Well it's the regular soldier but with flare as a bonus power.

But my goodness. Use this during adrenaline rush.
Completely transforms the soldier into one hell of a beast.

Hell yes it does, but tac clock makes me feel like a supernatural creature . As well for your previous post, flare is OP in single player, if they do put it in mp, they would have to tweek it and then it be op in mp As well, flare only shares the sound files of a biotic combo, it isn't a combo itself, it applies destructive damage thats about it, no scaling either. But my god its great, something similar to smash for sp finally. 

[EternalSeekerX9]

Also, isn the 80% TC bonus effect power damage as well, so flare on a infiltrator should outdamage on on an adept with only 70%, where with TC we get 105% (80% tc and 25% alliance training), thats close to aria's =D

Modifié par EternalSeekerX9, 24 février 2013 - 06:50 .

[RedCaesar97]

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...

Also, isn the 80% TC bonus effect power damage as well, so flare on a infiltrator should outdamage on on an adept with only 70%, where with TC we get 105% (80% tc and 25% alliance training), thats close to aria's =D

For single player, I believe Tactical Cloak gives you up to +90% power damage. I would have to look at the Infiltrator passive again, but I think it gives you up to +30% more power damage. Plus you can get up to +50% power damage from armor and another +25% power damage from Intel. And some squadmate's rank 6 squad bonus evolutions will also give you another +10% power damage bonus.

[Abraham_uk]

You can out adept the adept. Hmm.
Doesn't that make the adept redundant?

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 24 février 2013 - 12:46 .

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...

You can out adept the adept. Hmm.
Doesn't that make the adept redundant?

The Adept has been practically redundant in ME3 since day 1. With the exception of being able to disable enemies with your own Singularity or Pull, there is nothing the Adept can do that the Sentinel cannot do also. 

[Abraham_uk]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

You can out adept the adept. Hmm.
Doesn't that make the adept redundant?

The Adept has been practically redundant in ME3 since day 1. With the exception of being able to disable enemies with your own Singularity or Pull, there is nothing the Adept can do that the Sentinel cannot do also. 

At least the adept is not as badly treated as it was in ME 2.
In that game you had to remove protections before your biotics could take out enemies.

Granted singularity did drain shields and warp did plenty of damage to health, armor and barriers (also minor damage to shields).

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...
At least the adept is not as badly treated as it was in ME 2.
In that game you had to remove protections before your biotics could take out enemies.

Granted singularity did drain shields and warp did plenty of damage to health, armor and barriers (also minor damage to shields).

Then you missed the point of the Adept in ME2, my second-favorite class.

The Adept was able to perform all biotic combos by himself (or herself), no squadmates required. Start pairing the Adept with other biotic squadmates and you can become a biotic wrecking machine, destroying everything in your path.

Each protection had a hard counter (such as Overload for shields), and weapons had damage multipliers for different defenses (for example, SMGs dealt more damage to shields and barriers). No power or gun dealt extra damage to health. All basic enemies also had more health than protections.

The ability of Singularity to drain defenses was secondary; its main purpose was hold an enemy in place, taking them out of the fight while you dealt with the other enemies. If all you did as an Adept was Singularity > Warp, then you missed out on how good the Adept was at controlling the battlefield and taking out enemies. Pull + Throw was your quickest biotic combo and allowed you to instant-kill enemies on a lot of missions.

I would also argue that defenses (and specifically shields) were not the Adept's biggest weakest in ME2, rather it was the lack of instant-cast abilities. If Singularity and Warp were instant-cast, then the Adept would not have gotten the bad rep that it did in ME2.

[Abraham_uk]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...
At least the adept is not as badly treated as it was in ME 2.
In that game you had to remove protections before your biotics could take out enemies.

Granted singularity did drain shields and warp did plenty of damage to health, armor and barriers (also minor damage to shields).

Then you missed the point of the Adept in ME2, my second-favorite class.

The Adept was able to perform all biotic combos by himself (or herself), no squadmates required. Start pairing the Adept with other biotic squadmates and you can become a biotic wrecking machine, destroying everything in your path.

Each protection had a hard counter (such as Overload for shields), and weapons had damage multipliers for different defenses (for example, SMGs dealt more damage to shields and barriers). No power or gun dealt extra damage to health. All basic enemies also had more health than protections.

The ability of Singularity to drain defenses was secondary; its main purpose was hold an enemy in place, taking them out of the fight while you dealt with the other enemies. If all you did as an Adept was Singularity > Warp, then you missed out on how good the Adept was at controlling the battlefield and taking out enemies. Pull + Throw was your quickest biotic combo and allowed you to instant-kill enemies on a lot of missions.

I would also argue that defenses (and specifically shields) were not the Adept's biggest weakest in ME2, rather it was the lack of instant-cast abilities. If Singularity and Warp were instant-cast, then the Adept would not have gotten the bad rep that it did in ME2.

Fair enough.

I found the adept fun in all three games.
ME 2 was the game that introduced biotic combos.

[RedCaesar97]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...

Also, isn the 80% TC bonus effect power damage as well, so flare on a infiltrator should outdamage on on an adept with only 70%, where with TC we get 105% (80% tc and 25% alliance training), thats close to aria's =D

For single player, I believe Tactical Cloak gives you up to +90% power damage. I would have to look at the Infiltrator passive again, but I think it gives you up to +30% more power damage. Plus you can get up to +50% power damage from armor and another +25% power damage from Intel. And some squadmate's rank 6 squad bonus evolutions will also give you another +10% power damage bonus.

Edit: Infiltrator can get up to +35% power damage from passive: +10% at rank 4 and +25% at rank 6.

So with Cloak, passive, armor and Intel, the single player Infiltrator can get up to +200% power damage (-10% for missions where you cannot wear the Umbra visor).

The Infiltrator can get more power damage out of Tactical Cloak (+90%) than the Engineer, Adept, and Sentinel can natively. Engineers and Adepts can only get up to +70% from passive, while the Sentinel can currently get up to +80% (+50% from passive and +30% from Tech Armor). And that Tactical Cloak damage bonus also applies to weapon damage.

[Abraham_uk]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...

EternalSeekerX9 wrote...

Also, isn the 80% TC bonus effect power damage as well, so flare on a infiltrator should outdamage on on an adept with only 70%, where with TC we get 105% (80% tc and 25% alliance training), thats close to aria's =D

For single player, I believe Tactical Cloak gives you up to +90% power damage. I would have to look at the Infiltrator passive again, but I think it gives you up to +30% more power damage. Plus you can get up to +50% power damage from armor and another +25% power damage from Intel. And some squadmate's rank 6 squad bonus evolutions will also give you another +10% power damage bonus.

Edit: Infiltrator can get up to +35% power damage from passive: +10% at rank 4 and +25% at rank 6.

So with Cloak, passive, armor and Intel, the single player Infiltrator can get up to +200% power damage (-10% for missions where you cannot wear the Umbra visor).

The Infiltrator can get more power damage out of Tactical Cloak (+90%) than the Engineer, Adept, and Sentinel can natively. Engineers and Adepts can only get up to +70% from passive, while the Sentinel can currently get up to +80% (+50% from passive and +30% from Tech Armor). And that Tactical Cloak damage bonus also applies to weapon damage.

Specialist classes should out perform the hybrids in their specialist areas.
Otherwise aren't the soldier, adept and engineer a bit redundant?


Infiltrator has higher tech damage than the engineer and higher weapon damage than the soldier. If the infiltrator uses a bonus biotic power like flare, the infiltrator can out damage the adept.

Sentinel can out perform both the engineer and adept classes.

Vanguard is just plain overpowered since it can charge nova spam their way to the end in record time.

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...
Specialist classes should out perform the hybrids in their specialist areas.
Otherwise aren't the soldier, adept and engineer a bit redundant?


Infiltrator has higher tech damage than the engineer and higher weapon damage than the soldier. If the infiltrator uses a bonus biotic power like flare, the infiltrator can out damage the adept.

Sentinel can out perform both the engineer and adept classes.

Vanguard is just plain overpowered since it can charge nova spam their way to the end in record time.

Not entirely sure if the Sentinel can outperform the Engineer. The Sentinel can certainly take less damage.

As for specializations, this is the best I could come up with, most of it with tongue firmly implanted in cheek:
 - Soldier specialization: ammo powers, ammo power damage
 - Engineer specialization: Shield Damage, useless drone powers
 - Sentinel specialization: Biotic explosions with the occasional Overload, while sustaining little damage
 - Adept specialization: redundant skills
 - Infiltrator specialization: Making a mockery of the Engineer and the Soldier
 - Vanguard specialization: Charge!!!

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 24 février 2013 - 09:37 .